STI TT lap vs Nürburgring...?

[anonymous-user]

RB Will said:

Yeah bikes have an easier time overtaking, other drivers don't seem to get miffed about a bike coming past and slotting into an unsafe small gap between cars where if I did that in a car they would go mental.

The counter problem if we are switching to real life is that only about 0.001% of bike riders can get anywhere above 70% of a bikes ability although they usually think they are Guy Martin.

I can't recall a time in my 14 years of road driving when I have ever been caught and or passed by a bike when I have not been stuck behind someone else. Plenty of times I have caught or left bikes though.

Conversely, I cannot remember ever being caught/passed or left behind by a car as any rider with a modicum of ability, who can of course be bothered would leave 99.9% of cars for dead. A 200hp superbike is in a different league to pretty much any car you will ever encounter on the road. It's normally fear of my license or my life by hitting something far slower (it really hurts) that means I ride sensibly on the road.

If you haven't already done so, ride over the one way mountain section during the next TT fortnight, you'll experience a lot of riding like nothing you'll encounter when in UK. Not all of it good.

Biggest advantage a bike has in the real world, on real roads, is the same thing that makes most quick cars pointless - the ability to beat traffic. However, you can do that on a commuter bike!

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 24th July 10:28

[blade7]

ZX10R NIN said:

You stick to your 14 year old blade anything sharper & you might hurt yourself

[ZX10R NIN]

RB Will said:

Yeah bikes have an easier time overtaking, other drivers don't seem to get miffed about a bike coming past and slotting into an unsafe small gap between cars where if I did that in a car they would go mental.

The counter problem if we are switching to real life is that only about 0.001% of bike riders can get anywhere above 70% of a bikes ability although they usually think they are Guy Martin.

I can't recall a time in my 14 years of road driving when I have ever been caught and or passed by a bike when I have not been stuck behind someone else. Plenty of times I have caught or left bikes though.

I've never been caught by a car on an open piece of road conversely I have been held up by some bikers when out in my car & I've also been held up by drivers who think they're Lewis, I'll be honest the road you'll only be tapping into around 70% of the bikes ability but then again that's all you need to use to dispense with pretty much anything you come across.

Of course ability does come into it the same as it does with cars the only difference being that you can get away with being less skilled in the car.

I enjoy both cars & bikes but for me bikes are more enjoyable & access to that performance is easier (there are a few lovely knee down low speed corners that are part of my commute) makes them more enjoyable.

[SonicShadow]

Prodrive blurb says it's running 250psi of boost.... That can't be right - http://www.prodrive.com/copy-of-hummingbird-goes-i...

"It has a modified 2.0-litre Subaru WRC-spec boxer engine with a 75-mm intake, and the turbo runs at 250 psi of boost. This produces more than 600 horsepower at 8,500 rpm"

[RumbleOfThunder]

RB Will said:

Love whenever the bikers finally come round to accepting that ultimately a car is faster everywhere except a motocross course then the argument switches to well the bikes are cheaper.
What is the point even bringing that up? A desperate need for the bike to be better at something?

Cos it's the only thing left for them to fall back on. It's the ultimate "old man can't accept cars are faster in every respect" alamo position. YEAH BUT CHEAPER. I'd fking hope so it's a motorised bicycle.

[SystemParanoia]

RumbleOfThunder said:

RB Will said:

Love whenever the bikers finally come round to accepting that ultimately a car is faster everywhere except a motocross course then the argument switches to well the bikes are cheaper.
What is the point even bringing that up? A desperate need for the bike to be better at something?

Cos it's the only thing left for them to fall back on. It's the ultimate "old man can't accept cars are faster in every respect" alamo position. YEAH BUT CHEAPER. I'd fking hope so it's a motorised bicycle.

Dayyyyyum!

https://www.instagram.com/p/BNFUcHchMh5/

Trophy Trucks on a Motorcross track.. looks freaking awesome


also

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rdjx8Sp3-nM

Edited by SystemParanoia on Monday 24th July 23:15

[anonymous-user]

Or other examples where a bike wins:

Veyron vs H2R: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi5_GQ78wM8
Modified GTR vs modified Hayabusa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi5_GQ78wM8

my favourite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPmHhswbk_g

[RB Will]

Just to highlight how much quicker than a bike an F1 car is
https://youtu.be/h8OR-c57SMU?t=7m43s

Veyron isn't that fast in the world of mad cars either. The best that bike did was 204mph at the 1/2 mile. There are a few road going Lambos and GTRs that will top 240mph in a standing 1/2 mile. Both cars than can stop and steer too. There will never be health and safety clearance for one of those to go to the IOM though.

[RobM77]

There's substantial overlap between bike times and car times, so if you choose your weapons wisely enough the bike can of course win. In some cases, the circuit can play a part too - for instance the old Silverstone circuit for bikes and Mallory often run in a special bike configuration with a very tight chicane on the start finish straight which a car has to slow right down for. However, on a normal circuit it's quite clear cut, in fact for every single circuit in the world where bikes and cars both run plentifully, cars are faster. This isn't just F1 either; at most tracks the Moto GP lap record is within a second of GT3 and Formula Renault, and there are plenty of categories running quicker than that. Off the top of my head, cars between FR and F1 in performance that are currently racing include: GP3, F3, GP2, GT2, LMP3, A1GP, IRL, Superleague & WSR. If we scale the Moto GP back to a fast road bike like a 1000RR, obviously this list opens right up to virtually anything with slicks and wings and that list becomes exhaustive.

As has been said before, this is just basic Physics, largely down to having four contact patches which, without the requirement to lean, can be very large and very wide (width gives greater basic grip and also aids cooling and allows softer compounds to be run - it's a significant effect that I'm willing to go into detail on if anyone wishes). Plus of course cars can run with downforce, which further stretches the cornering and braking advantage. To give an idea of this advantage at an extreme, around Silverstone GP the difference between Moto GP and Formula 1 is just under 34 seconds, which is bigger than the difference between a Mini and Moto GP (only 32 seconds)!

Edited by RobM77 on Tuesday 25th July 11:40

[RumbleOfThunder]

wormus said:

Or other examples where a bike wins:

Veyron vs H2R: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi5_GQ78wM8
Modified GTR vs modified Hayabusa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi5_GQ78wM8

my favourite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPmHhswbk_g

You seem to be straying off topic chap. How about a fantastically ridden BMW S1000RR going life and death with a French front wheel drive hatchback at the ring?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGPZs8OZaaw

[ZX10R NIN]

BHP will always win also bikes are geared to top out at around 190mph with most bikes making between 180-200bhp at the wheels you just won't win against every car you come across, but in most cases you'll win more than you lose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDj1lusy-4w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ6CxA3R5u0

WSB vs F1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmNoiVyZpLU

M4 vs 959

https://youtu.be/3MHjW2n4cws

M4 vs BMW S1000RR Wet Track (you'll need to understand German)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfpBhoIMSrg

[RB Will]

Real life scenario for most bikers against a beast of a car

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5CV0e5Sooo

Gotta watch it all the way for his commentary

And this guy is an experienced rider, does reviews and tutorials etc

[DoubleD]

Is this thread just going to fill up with random youtube videos that "prove" that one is faster than the other?

[RobM77]

DoubleD said:

Is this thread just going to fill up with random youtube videos that "prove" that one is faster than the other?

I think my post about lap times above answers that (ETA: unless people choose to ignore it!). However, at least I've got some good You Tube content to watch next time I have a night in with a beer or two

Edited by RobM77 on Tuesday 25th July 16:05

[anonymous-user]

"Zee bike is sooo much faster than the car!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUAfXnmjyz0

[ZX10R NIN]

Good advert for Akrapovic, as for the MX5 giving a beating to the CBR600 that's simple the rider wasn't worthy of the bike he wasn't even leaning it over, there's another one of him getting tanked by a Tesla whilst on a ZX10R.

As a rule the car will beat a bike around a track on the road (Driver/Rider dependent) the bike will win.

[DoubleD]

ZX10R NIN said:

As a rule the car will beat a bike around a track on the road (Driver/Rider dependent) the bike will win.

So one is faster and the other is better getting through traffic.

[anonymous-user]

DoubleD said:

So one is faster and the other is better getting through traffic.

Bikes are faster on the road as they can get through traffic and accelerate faster than pretty much 100% of cars on the road. Cars have the advantage on most circuits, except where the circuit is a road, like the TT circuit, then the bike also wins. Car wins at carrying stuff.

I think that covers it?

[ZX10R NIN]

No the bike is better at getting down an A/B road (due to not many production cars producing downforce) unless said car has around 600+bhp at which point things would get interesting & from what I've come across on the roads there aren't many of those, A roads really suit bikes especially long fast bends are where the bike excels & it will match a 650s through those kind of corners.

[DoubleD]

wormus said:

Cars have the advantage on most circuits, except where the circuit is a road, like the TT circuit, then the bike also wins.

Have you got the figures to prove that?