RE: Lotus Evora GT430 - official!
Discussion
hondansx said:
Agree with you entirely. However, i also know a GT3 will be worth decent money when I sell it. I'd be really worried about the Evora.
It's almost like Lotus need to have a buy back option to protect values.
Like the GTE/GT350 this will not lose money. Perhaps it won't make as much as a GT3, I don't know. I suspect it would be a lot cheaper to service and run on a track though.It's almost like Lotus need to have a buy back option to protect values.
hondansx said:
Agree with you entirely. However, i also know a GT3 will be worth decent money when I sell it. I'd be really worried about the Evora.
It's almost like Lotus need to have a buy back option to protect values.
Second hand values of Lotus cars tend to be pretty damn good to be honest. If you're limiting yourself to cars that are going to go up in value then discounting 99.9% of cars on the market.It's almost like Lotus need to have a buy back option to protect values.
spikyone said:
Hungrymc said:
I guess there are two separate topics :
1) The 430 - Well I won't be buying one, but absolutely no harm in Lotus bringing new more focused models of the current cars and asking a strong premium. The underlying cars are brilliant (as drivers cars) and these faster, sharper, lighter versions off course have their place. This will be an utterly thrilling drive and I don't care what they ask for it, I just hope they can find buyers and it can contribute to the business.
2) The company - I disagree with you here. They don't have the size and resources to do what you suggest (maybe they will soon have this with new ownership and financing). They are small and must focus on what they know. It would be crazy for example to try and make an Evora fight the 911 only on the 911's terms. Its impossible to reach the broad level of development that Porsche hit in every area. What Lotus have to do is be utterly brilliant at their strengths, and be acceptable in the other areas. Does this mean they are the best car company in the world with a safe and great future? No, of course it doesn't. But it does mean we have a car manufacture that places driver engagement above pretty much everything else. And one that has managed to survive when most other niche manufactures (particularly ones that are not at the very top end of the market) have failed. All of this at reasonably accessible pricing for the mainstream models.
Doesn't matter if you want a 430 or not, we should celebrate that they are still here, seem to be getting stronger, and produce some remarkable cars from fairly mainstream parts. I like M4s and 911s, I like that you also have the choice of something like an Evora.
I've rarely agreed with anything on PH as much as I agree with this. Well-written, thoughtful, and impartial. 1) The 430 - Well I won't be buying one, but absolutely no harm in Lotus bringing new more focused models of the current cars and asking a strong premium. The underlying cars are brilliant (as drivers cars) and these faster, sharper, lighter versions off course have their place. This will be an utterly thrilling drive and I don't care what they ask for it, I just hope they can find buyers and it can contribute to the business.
2) The company - I disagree with you here. They don't have the size and resources to do what you suggest (maybe they will soon have this with new ownership and financing). They are small and must focus on what they know. It would be crazy for example to try and make an Evora fight the 911 only on the 911's terms. Its impossible to reach the broad level of development that Porsche hit in every area. What Lotus have to do is be utterly brilliant at their strengths, and be acceptable in the other areas. Does this mean they are the best car company in the world with a safe and great future? No, of course it doesn't. But it does mean we have a car manufacture that places driver engagement above pretty much everything else. And one that has managed to survive when most other niche manufactures (particularly ones that are not at the very top end of the market) have failed. All of this at reasonably accessible pricing for the mainstream models.
Doesn't matter if you want a 430 or not, we should celebrate that they are still here, seem to be getting stronger, and produce some remarkable cars from fairly mainstream parts. I like M4s and 911s, I like that you also have the choice of something like an Evora.
Petrol heads should remember that as a business, Porsche is an SUV producer with a sideline in sports cars.
I celebrate any manufacturer who tries. Alfa are trying again and so are Alpine. Rejoice rather than criticise all attempts else we all end up with vag offerings.
CABC said:
Petrol heads should remember that as a business, Porsche is an SUV producer with a sideline in sports cars.
I celebrate any manufacturer who tries. Alfa are trying again and so are Alpine. Rejoice rather than criticise all attempts else we all end up with vag offerings.
I wonder whether Geely have in mind,I celebrate any manufacturer who tries. Alfa are trying again and so are Alpine. Rejoice rather than criticise all attempts else we all end up with vag offerings.
a) developing another finely tuned track machine for the small handful of Lotus faithful?
b) launching a new Esprit to take on McLaren and Ferrari? or
c) sticking the Lotus badge on a gopping Chinese SUV?
EggsBenedict said:
and lol at all the usual PH "it's too expensive etc." stuff from those not in the market for a 100grand car anyway...
lol all you want, how do you know that to be the case? You know me better than my accountant it seems. I loved my Evora but it never felt a £100k+ car. Yes, this model moves the game on by some margin, and I think it looks spectacular, but I don't have testicles large enough to take that sort of risk. As Thorburn says, Lotus residuals are usually strong, but Evoras dropped a vast % from the early cars through to the 12 month old £58k one in the classifieds on here. Whether the limited production run of these reverses that pattern is another matter, but its an unproven risk that you can largely avoid by going for something with an existing depreciation curve.
CABC said:
spikyone said:
Hungrymc said:
I guess there are two separate topics :
1) The 430 - Well I won't be buying one, but absolutely no harm in Lotus bringing new more focused models of the current cars and asking a strong premium. The underlying cars are brilliant (as drivers cars) and these faster, sharper, lighter versions off course have their place. This will be an utterly thrilling drive and I don't care what they ask for it, I just hope they can find buyers and it can contribute to the business.
2) The company - I disagree with you here. They don't have the size and resources to do what you suggest (maybe they will soon have this with new ownership and financing). They are small and must focus on what they know. It would be crazy for example to try and make an Evora fight the 911 only on the 911's terms. Its impossible to reach the broad level of development that Porsche hit in every area. What Lotus have to do is be utterly brilliant at their strengths, and be acceptable in the other areas. Does this mean they are the best car company in the world with a safe and great future? No, of course it doesn't. But it does mean we have a car manufacture that places driver engagement above pretty much everything else. And one that has managed to survive when most other niche manufactures (particularly ones that are not at the very top end of the market) have failed. All of this at reasonably accessible pricing for the mainstream models.
Doesn't matter if you want a 430 or not, we should celebrate that they are still here, seem to be getting stronger, and produce some remarkable cars from fairly mainstream parts. I like M4s and 911s, I like that you also have the choice of something like an Evora.
I've rarely agreed with anything on PH as much as I agree with this. Well-written, thoughtful, and impartial. 1) The 430 - Well I won't be buying one, but absolutely no harm in Lotus bringing new more focused models of the current cars and asking a strong premium. The underlying cars are brilliant (as drivers cars) and these faster, sharper, lighter versions off course have their place. This will be an utterly thrilling drive and I don't care what they ask for it, I just hope they can find buyers and it can contribute to the business.
2) The company - I disagree with you here. They don't have the size and resources to do what you suggest (maybe they will soon have this with new ownership and financing). They are small and must focus on what they know. It would be crazy for example to try and make an Evora fight the 911 only on the 911's terms. Its impossible to reach the broad level of development that Porsche hit in every area. What Lotus have to do is be utterly brilliant at their strengths, and be acceptable in the other areas. Does this mean they are the best car company in the world with a safe and great future? No, of course it doesn't. But it does mean we have a car manufacture that places driver engagement above pretty much everything else. And one that has managed to survive when most other niche manufactures (particularly ones that are not at the very top end of the market) have failed. All of this at reasonably accessible pricing for the mainstream models.
Doesn't matter if you want a 430 or not, we should celebrate that they are still here, seem to be getting stronger, and produce some remarkable cars from fairly mainstream parts. I like M4s and 911s, I like that you also have the choice of something like an Evora.
Petrol heads should remember that as a business, Porsche is an SUV producer with a sideline in sports cars.
I celebrate any manufacturer who tries. Alfa are trying again and so are Alpine. Rejoice rather than criticise all attempts else we all end up with vag offerings.
I welcome a diverse market, and for everyone that means there will be cars you don't like. I also think much of the criticism aimed at Lotus is from people who haven't driven one. It's much easier to sell a car that looks beautiful or goes very fast than it is to sell a car that drives very well, because the former two can be demonstrated on the pages of a magazine, whereas the latter cannot.Shnozz said:
As Thorburn says, Lotus residuals are usually strong, but Evoras dropped a vast % from the early cars through to the 12 month old £58k one in the classifieds on here.
Have they really? An 8 year old Evora is still worth >50% what it was when new. That Evora has lost, what? £10k from new? You could lose way more than that driving an M3 off the forecourt, turning around and trading it in.Hell, my dad paid £60k less for his V12 Vantage S than it cost when new 11 months and 7k miles prior...
Edit: That £58k Evora 400 looks bloody great though, love a bit of Chrome Orange.
Edited by Thorburn on Friday 21st July 14:46
ben5575 said:
This GT430 is stunning. £112k maybe on a par with the GT3, but the GT3 won't drop £30k+ after a year or so unlike this one.
I'm not so sure the Lotus will depreciate that fast. Rather depends what they supersede it with. If it remains the high water mark of the Evora I could see it becoming a, dare I say it, collectable.rockin said:
isaldiri said:
It's somewhat unfortunate nowadays that the main judgement of a sports car is a financial one .
I'd see the McLaren 540C at £126k as "bargain of the week" compared with this Lotus.533 bhp from a properly mid-engined V8 in the McLaren.
You forget to mention the V8 in the Macca is a proper dry sump race derived engine. Also the carbon in the Macca is used to make the tub where it provides the most benefit. This Lotus on the other hand has a fibreglass tub which is nowhere near as stiff (all the Lotus' carbon is basically next to useless as its mainly decorative/pointless) and I think the engine is nicked from a Toyota Camry!
MarJay said:
If it's the same price as a GT3, then it's overpriced by 20-30% IMO. Lotus needs to appeal by giving similar performance at a lower price, otherwise people aren't going to stump up for a lotus. It's just not got enough 'halo' factor, it's not reputed for reliability and it's not known for luxury.
AgreedJust to point out again on this UK site about the tiny number of these cars that will be available to the UK market. I'm so far aware that 50% of the UK's allocation have already found homes. Residual value shouldn't need to be a talking point here as these things are in demand in the UK.
Desert Dragon said:
I'm still not a fan of the Macca as its styling is too fussy but its priced remarkably well as is the 720 S. The Evora is just plain awful on the other hand. Looked dated the day it was released and its embarrassing even mentioning it in the same breath as the Macca. Styling has well just moved on when you look at some of the stuff coming out of sports cars manufacturers .
You forget to mention the V8 in the Macca is a proper dry sump race derived engine. Also the carbon in the Macca is used to make the tub where it provides the most benefit. This Lotus on the other hand has a fibreglass tub which is nowhere near as stiff (all the Lotus' carbon is basically next to useless as its mainly decorative/pointless) and I think the engine is nicked from a Toyota Camry!
The McLaren engine is not race derived, its a bought in design from Ricardo. The Lotus does not have a fibreglass tub, it's aluminium and extremely stiff indeed. The carbon parts on the Evora here contribute to the drop in weight from the original Evora and are responsible for the 250kg of downforce. You forget to mention the V8 in the Macca is a proper dry sump race derived engine. Also the carbon in the Macca is used to make the tub where it provides the most benefit. This Lotus on the other hand has a fibreglass tub which is nowhere near as stiff (all the Lotus' carbon is basically next to useless as its mainly decorative/pointless) and I think the engine is nicked from a Toyota Camry!
On another note, the Corvette is better than any Lotus because all Lotus cars are made on a oil rig in the south China sea, the tyres are made out ladies hats and the corvette ones are made of MEGATANIUM. The LS engine in a Corvette was used to power the Saturn 5 rocket, unlike every Lotus engine which are in fact just empty picnic hampers with "ENGINE" painted on the top with tipex.
Plus, no self respecting Saudi princeling would park one outside Harrods.
Desert Dragon said:
rockin said:
isaldiri said:
It's somewhat unfortunate nowadays that the main judgement of a sports car is a financial one .
I'd see the McLaren 540C at £126k as "bargain of the week" compared with this Lotus.533 bhp from a properly mid-engined V8 in the McLaren.
You forget to mention the V8 in the Macca is a proper dry sump race derived engine. Also the carbon in the Macca is used to make the tub where it provides the most benefit. This Lotus on the other hand has a fibreglass tub which is nowhere near as stiff (all the Lotus' carbon is basically next to useless as its mainly decorative/pointless) and I think the engine is nicked from a Toyota Camry!
The Evora appears to be stiffer than the 12C, I can't see figures for the more modern Mclarens but I can't imagine that either of them suffers from noticeable chassis flex.
Don't get me wrong the, Mclaren is a remarkable car and in many ways probably a superior product, but arguing "it's carbon so it must be better" is spec whoring of the highest degree. Similarly with the engine; yes the Lotus engine is a Toyota unit but does the badge really matter? No-one who's experienced it seems to actually complain about how it behaves, which is more than can be said of the Mclaren unit which has come in from considerable criticism from the press.
Don't get me wrong the, Mclaren is a remarkable car and in many ways probably a superior product, but arguing "it's carbon so it must be better" is spec whoring of the highest degree. Similarly with the engine; yes the Lotus engine is a Toyota unit but does the badge really matter? No-one who's experienced it seems to actually complain about how it behaves, which is more than can be said of the Mclaren unit which has come in from considerable criticism from the press.
Edited by kambites on Friday 21st July 15:34
As above, the Evora tub is extruded aluminium.
Carbon is actually commonly used in motorsport for bodywork, rather than just structural members, because it's lighter than fibreglass. For example, all the bodywork on an FR, F3 or F1 car is carbon, even if its non load bearing (sidepods for example).
The point remains though, yes, McLaren will sell you a longitudinally engined carbon tubbed car for a little more; I guess this price point is the cross-over between the two types of car - the Evora GT430 is the most expensive Lotus and the 540C is the cheapest McLaren.
Carbon is actually commonly used in motorsport for bodywork, rather than just structural members, because it's lighter than fibreglass. For example, all the bodywork on an FR, F3 or F1 car is carbon, even if its non load bearing (sidepods for example).
The point remains though, yes, McLaren will sell you a longitudinally engined carbon tubbed car for a little more; I guess this price point is the cross-over between the two types of car - the Evora GT430 is the most expensive Lotus and the 540C is the cheapest McLaren.
Edited by RobM77 on Friday 21st July 15:52
Desert Dragon said:
I'm still not a fan of the Macca as its styling is too fussy but its priced remarkably well as is the 720 S. The Evora is just plain awful on the other hand. Looked dated the day it was released and its embarrassing even mentioning it in the same breath as the Macca. Styling has well just moved on when you look at some of the stuff coming out of sports cars manufacturers .
You forget to mention the V8 in the Macca is a proper dry sump race derived engine. Also the carbon in the Macca is used to make the tub where it provides the most benefit. This Lotus on the other hand has a fibreglass tub which is nowhere near as stiff (all the Lotus' carbon is basically next to useless as its mainly decorative/pointless) and I think the engine is nicked from a Toyota Camry!
When did Lotus swap from Alu to fibreglass for the tub? My Alu tubbed Elise is quite rigid, I see this fibreglass tub a backwards step.You forget to mention the V8 in the Macca is a proper dry sump race derived engine. Also the carbon in the Macca is used to make the tub where it provides the most benefit. This Lotus on the other hand has a fibreglass tub which is nowhere near as stiff (all the Lotus' carbon is basically next to useless as its mainly decorative/pointless) and I think the engine is nicked from a Toyota Camry!
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