RE: Lotus Evora GT430 - official!
Discussion
I'm a car fan. It's why I come on here.
I think that's an amazing car. Looks wise and performance.
I can't afford it, so I don't give a jot about how much it costs.
I've driven a standard Evora and I loved it. Had flaws but what car doesn't?
I just know it would be bloody awesome to drive and I would love it.
I think that's an amazing car. Looks wise and performance.
I can't afford it, so I don't give a jot about how much it costs.
I've driven a standard Evora and I loved it. Had flaws but what car doesn't?
I just know it would be bloody awesome to drive and I would love it.
kambites said:
In a straight line, I agree. It's giving away the best part of 50bhp/tonne isn't it?
Going on the curb weights provided by both, it’s 330bhp/ton for the Lotus and 350bhp/ton for a 991.2 GT3. The torque to weight ratio is 338nm/ton for the Lotus and 325nm/ton for the Pork.
Th Lotus is also rated as being 0.1s faster to 100km/h than the Porsche, but then I think Porsche are known for being conservative with their figures.
Depending on the power curves and whether each car is actually making the power it claims to make, I can see the Porsche being a bit faster in a straight line but there not being much in it. I certainly wouldn’t say that it would be much faster, but in the real world that may of course be the case. I have no direct experience with either car.
Yes it is difficult to tell completely without comparing the torque curves and gear ratios, but you can bet Porsche have that one nailed where Lotus will have done the best job they can with what they have been given. Whilst the manual Lotus gearchange is good now (with some miles on it), it will be slow compared with a PDK type transmission, which is where I suspect the biggest difference will be seen in the real world.
I`ve never driven a GT3 911 (would like to, to see what the fuss is all about), but have driven several 911 variants, and have to say the much prefer the Evora, but everyone to their own.
I`d be amazed if the press get their hands on a 430 to give us some idea what the car is like...that`s if you believe anything written in the press (other than Pistonheads of course who do seem to be remarkably positive toward Lotus these days) given the support from the manufacturers they get.
I`ve never driven a GT3 911 (would like to, to see what the fuss is all about), but have driven several 911 variants, and have to say the much prefer the Evora, but everyone to their own.
I`d be amazed if the press get their hands on a 430 to give us some idea what the car is like...that`s if you believe anything written in the press (other than Pistonheads of course who do seem to be remarkably positive toward Lotus these days) given the support from the manufacturers they get.
Thorburn said:
Second hand values of Lotus cars tend to be pretty damn good to be honest. If you're limiting yourself to cars that are going to go up in value then discounting 99.9% of cars on the market.
Yes an evora 400 for £85k can be had for £57k.And let's not forget the load of 50/50 deals which left people out of pocket in 2 years.
Lotus loose st loads, older ones are stable, but the new cars drop very fast in the 1st 12 months, not helped by a new Elise every 4 months. You can say a Elise will loose 25% of its value in the 1st 12 months.
LotusOmega375D]orsche911R said:
the GTE was 2011was 438BHP and looked loads better
It's 2017 Lotus what happened the last 7 years lol
roll on the 2020 new platform./quote]
Turns out it wasn't though. Possibly the only original Swindon engined one to escape captivity was recently dyno'd at 385bhp and the automated manual gearbox was decidedly poo. So this 430bhp is a genuine step up, since the above car was designed 6 years ago. Also very few on here seem to be praising this as manual only. Imagine a new Porsche being manual only! Have our wealthy PH contributors all gone soft and forgotten how to change gear themselves?
My GT4 is only available manual and was £75k fully speced, these sort of cars always stop me in my tracks every time I try and get back into a Lotus. I could not choose a evora 400 over a GT4 and now like wise I could not buy a GT430 over a new 991.2 GT3. For me Lotus are that fun 2nd car in the £40k market and should stay in that area. Alass my 987.2 Spyder stops me buying an Elise also lol it's just a much better car and still a flat 6 NA engine, so just no contest.It's 2017 Lotus what happened the last 7 years lol
roll on the 2020 new platform./quote]
Turns out it wasn't though. Possibly the only original Swindon engined one to escape captivity was recently dyno'd at 385bhp and the automated manual gearbox was decidedly poo. So this 430bhp is a genuine step up, since the above car was designed 6 years ago. Also very few on here seem to be praising this as manual only. Imagine a new Porsche being manual only! Have our wealthy PH contributors all gone soft and forgotten how to change gear themselves?
Lotus don't make a NA engine car now unless you only want 130bhp !
My R is better than a base NA evora, my Spyder better than a Elise and the GT3 is better than the GT430. It is what it is.
Roll on 2020 but I fear the Elise will be a 4 pot turbo :-( so I'll just keep what I have ATM and might pick up a Exige sport 380 at £50k down the line should not have to wait that long I have not seen any sell 2nd hand and they are already £64k! With an early v6 exige sub £40k now.
Lotus make great 2nd hand buys imo but to get me to buy new they need a new platform.
Porsche911R said:
Yes an evora 400 for £85k can be had for £57k.
And let's not forget the load of 50/50 deals which left people out of pocket in 2 years.
Lotus loose st loads, older ones are stable, but the new cars drop very fast in the 1st 12 months, not helped by a new Elise every 4 months. You can say a Elise will loose 25% of its value in the 1st 12 months.
So a new Elise is £30k, one ten years old is £15kAnd let's not forget the load of 50/50 deals which left people out of pocket in 2 years.
Lotus loose st loads, older ones are stable, but the new cars drop very fast in the 1st 12 months, not helped by a new Elise every 4 months. You can say a Elise will loose 25% of its value in the 1st 12 months.
Is that 5% per year?
What's wrong with the 50/50 deals?
My Evora 400 new cost £72k fully loaded and I bet there are those which have been bought for less.
Can you buy a Cayman GT4 for less than £100k these days?
There are things about the Porsche which are better and there likewise with the Lotus. Beautifully made cars that Porsche are, I find them generally dull. Do like the GT2RS made from unobtainium though.
Plenty of the Porsche models like any car depreciate rapidly in the first year so more drivel.
Can you buy a Cayman GT4 for less than £100k these days?
There are things about the Porsche which are better and there likewise with the Lotus. Beautifully made cars that Porsche are, I find them generally dull. Do like the GT2RS made from unobtainium though.
Plenty of the Porsche models like any car depreciate rapidly in the first year so more drivel.
Porsche911R said:
Lotus make great 2nd hand buys imo but to get me to buy new they need a new platform.
Mr Demon old fella, from the long, long history of your posts, the day you actually buy a Lotus instead of trolling the boards will be the day hell has officially frozen over.I don't think it's something anyone here is counting on, nor a prerequisite for their ongoing success.
Recently my local serial porsche acquiring then current GT4 owning fan boi drove my 2-11, an Exige, and then my 250 Cup and has since dumped Porsche buying an LF1 and is now on the hunt for a Cup. Less is more as any Caterham driver will tell you. I'd have a Caterham but I'm too fat for one of those (sorry powerfully built) and scared of dying when I'd inevitably lose it exceeding my ability.
Just love my Elise best thing since sliced bread road and track. I couldn't buy another Porsche (3 911's), or for that matter this Evora, too heavy for me now but looks a lovely thing. I much prefer driving my Elise to pretty much anything else I've got, it's just so connected and immediate, and I don't give a damn about whats propelling it when I'm having so much fun actually driving it.
I agree a bit about the cost thing, but this is a very limited edition so maybe justifiable. With Geely's investment, I'd love them to concentrate on the Elise market, as I think that's where the real gems lie at Lotus, but everyone seems to want to have bigger more powerful multi cylinder cars and cough SUV's. Would be a massive shame IMO.
Just love my Elise best thing since sliced bread road and track. I couldn't buy another Porsche (3 911's), or for that matter this Evora, too heavy for me now but looks a lovely thing. I much prefer driving my Elise to pretty much anything else I've got, it's just so connected and immediate, and I don't give a damn about whats propelling it when I'm having so much fun actually driving it.
I agree a bit about the cost thing, but this is a very limited edition so maybe justifiable. With Geely's investment, I'd love them to concentrate on the Elise market, as I think that's where the real gems lie at Lotus, but everyone seems to want to have bigger more powerful multi cylinder cars and cough SUV's. Would be a massive shame IMO.
Porsche911R said:
My GT4 is only available manual and was £75k fully speced, these sort of cars always stop me in my tracks every time I try and get back into a Lotus. I could not choose a evora 400 over a GT4 and now like wise I could not buy a GT430 over a new 991.2 GT3. For me Lotus are that fun 2nd car in the £40k market and should stay in that area. Alass my 987.2 Spyder stops me buying an Elise also lol it's just a much better car and still a flat 6 NA engine, so just no contest.
Lotus don't make a NA engine car now unless you only want 130bhp !
My R is better than a base NA evora, my Spyder better than a Elise and the GT3 is better than the GT430. It is what it is.
Roll on 2020 but I fear the Elise will be a 4 pot turbo :-( so I'll just keep what I have ATM and might pick up a Exige sport 380 at £50k down the line should not have to wait that long I have not seen any sell 2nd hand and they are already £64k! With an early v6 exige sub £40k now.
Lotus make great 2nd hand buys imo but to get me to buy new they need a new platform.
fk me, you're boring. Lotus don't make a NA engine car now unless you only want 130bhp !
My R is better than a base NA evora, my Spyder better than a Elise and the GT3 is better than the GT430. It is what it is.
Roll on 2020 but I fear the Elise will be a 4 pot turbo :-( so I'll just keep what I have ATM and might pick up a Exige sport 380 at £50k down the line should not have to wait that long I have not seen any sell 2nd hand and they are already £64k! With an early v6 exige sub £40k now.
Lotus make great 2nd hand buys imo but to get me to buy new they need a new platform.
saaby93 said:
Porsche911R said:
Yes an evora 400 for £85k can be had for £57k.
And let's not forget the load of 50/50 deals which left people out of pocket in 2 years.
Lotus loose st loads, older ones are stable, but the new cars drop very fast in the 1st 12 months, not helped by a new Elise every 4 months. You can say a Elise will loose 25% of its value in the 1st 12 months.
So a new Elise is £30k, one ten years old is £15kAnd let's not forget the load of 50/50 deals which left people out of pocket in 2 years.
Lotus loose st loads, older ones are stable, but the new cars drop very fast in the 1st 12 months, not helped by a new Elise every 4 months. You can say a Elise will loose 25% of its value in the 1st 12 months.
Is that 5% per year?
What's wrong with the 50/50 deals?
blueg33 said:
Porsche911R said:
My GT4 is only available manual and was £75k fully speced, these sort of cars always stop me in my tracks every time I try and get back into a Lotus. I could not choose a evora 400 over a GT4 and now like wise I could not buy a GT430 over a new 991.2 GT3. For me Lotus are that fun 2nd car in the £40k market and should stay in that area. Alass my 987.2 Spyder stops me buying an Elise also lol it's just a much better car and still a flat 6 NA engine, so just no contest.
Lotus don't make a NA engine car now unless you only want 130bhp !
My R is better than a base NA evora, my Spyder better than a Elise and the GT3 is better than the GT430. It is what it is.
Roll on 2020 but I fear the Elise will be a 4 pot turbo :-( so I'll just keep what I have ATM and might pick up a Exige sport 380 at £50k down the line should not have to wait that long I have not seen any sell 2nd hand and they are already £64k! With an early v6 exige sub £40k now.
Lotus make great 2nd hand buys imo but to get me to buy new they need a new platform.
fk me, you're boring. Lotus don't make a NA engine car now unless you only want 130bhp !
My R is better than a base NA evora, my Spyder better than a Elise and the GT3 is better than the GT430. It is what it is.
Roll on 2020 but I fear the Elise will be a 4 pot turbo :-( so I'll just keep what I have ATM and might pick up a Exige sport 380 at £50k down the line should not have to wait that long I have not seen any sell 2nd hand and they are already £64k! With an early v6 exige sub £40k now.
Lotus make great 2nd hand buys imo but to get me to buy new they need a new platform.
He does make at least one good point though; Lotus residuals are generally nothing special for the first buyer if they are the sort of person who buys a new car every three (or less) years. They're not terrible, but they're nothing special for the sector they compete in either.
COmpared to limited-supply Porsche models, they're expensive cars for the first owner.
COmpared to limited-supply Porsche models, they're expensive cars for the first owner.
Edited by kambites on Sunday 23 July 14:46
kambites said:
He does make at least one good point though; Lotus residuals are generally nothing special for the first buyer if they are the sort of person who buys a new car every three (or less) years. They're not terrible, but they're nothing special for the sector they compete in either.
COmpared to limited-supply Porsche models, they're expensive cars for the first owner.
The premium of the limited supply Porsches is a very recent thing though. Not so long ago even a car like the 7.2gt3rs (imho an infinitely better car than say the gt4) depreciated a fair amount. The main (only?) reason why the new GT cars has such a mad scrabble is that it's perceived as free money because it certainly isn't because they are far better cars to drive than anything else. COmpared to limited-supply Porsche models, they're expensive cars for the first owner.
Edited by kambites on Sunday 23 July 14:46
I can't afford this - but the want is so very strong with it.
The 400 left me a bit cold - mainly on the styling front (i don't get on with the front end) and the 410's interior was bang on.
But then even my "Base NA Evora" as someone put it, is pretty damn awesome on the road or track. I love it.
Silverstone GP by Simon Cox, on Flickr
It's by far the most enjoyable car i've owned and the speed it can carry (i'm no stranger to tracks and yet this is far more capable chassis wise than i am mentally currently) is outstanding. Sure it isn't the fastest (300bhp) car out there, but quite frankly i couldn't care less when actually driving it. Straight line speed is boring as fk. Been there, done that. I'm sure this Evora is a significant improvement - not least in the engine, but the chassis too.
A lot of people say the 2GRFE and its derivatives are rubbish sounding, but i quite like the noise they all make!
https://www.youtube.com/embed/GABEh2scHCY
If i had the money i'd snap one of these up immediately. Simple.
It always goes the same way on both PH and meets - a certain type of Porsche drivers (whilst the other type look apologetically on at the unfortunate target) gobbing off about how their 911XXX or Cayman GT4 is better. Quoting 0-62 or how much faster a 911/GT4 apparently goes around the 'ring. Making comparisons that are, quite frankly moot - neither of us are Nigel Mansell. Most people make a decision on buying a Lotus emotively - not crunching numbers to ensure they can't be beaten in pub top trumps.
I'm too busy enjoying driving the Evora or chatting to proper enthusiasts who don't see another sports car as a threat to their manliness, but as a conversation piece and an experience as a whole. Or on track mixing it with the enthusiasts who respect that there are things both driver and car can't do that the others can.
The current trend seems to be "PH: Boring Porsche Asshats Matter" on every thread - but particularly prevalent on anything Lotus. Bring back "PH: Enthusiasts Matter" - the sooner the better.
The 400 left me a bit cold - mainly on the styling front (i don't get on with the front end) and the 410's interior was bang on.
But then even my "Base NA Evora" as someone put it, is pretty damn awesome on the road or track. I love it.
Silverstone GP by Simon Cox, on Flickr
It's by far the most enjoyable car i've owned and the speed it can carry (i'm no stranger to tracks and yet this is far more capable chassis wise than i am mentally currently) is outstanding. Sure it isn't the fastest (300bhp) car out there, but quite frankly i couldn't care less when actually driving it. Straight line speed is boring as fk. Been there, done that. I'm sure this Evora is a significant improvement - not least in the engine, but the chassis too.
A lot of people say the 2GRFE and its derivatives are rubbish sounding, but i quite like the noise they all make!
https://www.youtube.com/embed/GABEh2scHCY
If i had the money i'd snap one of these up immediately. Simple.
It always goes the same way on both PH and meets - a certain type of Porsche drivers (whilst the other type look apologetically on at the unfortunate target) gobbing off about how their 911XXX or Cayman GT4 is better. Quoting 0-62 or how much faster a 911/GT4 apparently goes around the 'ring. Making comparisons that are, quite frankly moot - neither of us are Nigel Mansell. Most people make a decision on buying a Lotus emotively - not crunching numbers to ensure they can't be beaten in pub top trumps.
I'm too busy enjoying driving the Evora or chatting to proper enthusiasts who don't see another sports car as a threat to their manliness, but as a conversation piece and an experience as a whole. Or on track mixing it with the enthusiasts who respect that there are things both driver and car can't do that the others can.
The current trend seems to be "PH: Boring Porsche Asshats Matter" on every thread - but particularly prevalent on anything Lotus. Bring back "PH: Enthusiasts Matter" - the sooner the better.
Havoc856-S said:
I can't afford this - but the want is so very strong with it.
The 400 left me a bit cold - mainly on the styling front (i don't get on with the front end) and the 410's interior was bang on.
But then even my "Base NA Evora" as someone put it, is pretty damn awesome on the road or track. I love it.
Silverstone GP by Simon Cox, on Flickr
It's by far the most enjoyable car i've owned and the speed it can carry (i'm no stranger to tracks and yet this is far more capable chassis wise than i am mentally currently) is outstanding. Sure it isn't the fastest (300bhp) car out there, but quite frankly i couldn't care less when actually driving it. Straight line speed is boring as fk. Been there, done that. I'm sure this Evora is a significant improvement - not least in the engine, but the chassis too.
A lot of people say the 2GRFE and its derivatives are rubbish sounding, but i quite like the noise they all make!
https://www.youtube.com/embed/GABEh2scHCY
If i had the money i'd snap one of these up immediately. Simple.
It always goes the same way on both PH and meets - a certain type of Porsche drivers (whilst the other type look apologetically on at the unfortunate target) gobbing off about how their 911XXX or Cayman GT4 is better. Quoting 0-62 or how much faster a 911/GT4 apparently goes around the 'ring. Making comparisons that are, quite frankly moot - neither of us are Nigel Mansell. Most people make a decision on buying a Lotus emotively - not crunching numbers to ensure they can't be beaten in pub top trumps.
I'm too busy enjoying driving the Evora or chatting to proper enthusiasts who don't see another sports car as a threat to their manliness, but as a conversation piece and an experience as a whole. Or on track mixing it with the enthusiasts who respect that there are things both driver and car can't do that the others can.
The current trend seems to be "PH: Boring Porsche Asshats Matter" on every thread - but particularly prevalent on anything Lotus. Bring back "PH: Enthusiasts Matter" - the sooner the better.
Well saidThe 400 left me a bit cold - mainly on the styling front (i don't get on with the front end) and the 410's interior was bang on.
But then even my "Base NA Evora" as someone put it, is pretty damn awesome on the road or track. I love it.
Silverstone GP by Simon Cox, on Flickr
It's by far the most enjoyable car i've owned and the speed it can carry (i'm no stranger to tracks and yet this is far more capable chassis wise than i am mentally currently) is outstanding. Sure it isn't the fastest (300bhp) car out there, but quite frankly i couldn't care less when actually driving it. Straight line speed is boring as fk. Been there, done that. I'm sure this Evora is a significant improvement - not least in the engine, but the chassis too.
A lot of people say the 2GRFE and its derivatives are rubbish sounding, but i quite like the noise they all make!
https://www.youtube.com/embed/GABEh2scHCY
If i had the money i'd snap one of these up immediately. Simple.
It always goes the same way on both PH and meets - a certain type of Porsche drivers (whilst the other type look apologetically on at the unfortunate target) gobbing off about how their 911XXX or Cayman GT4 is better. Quoting 0-62 or how much faster a 911/GT4 apparently goes around the 'ring. Making comparisons that are, quite frankly moot - neither of us are Nigel Mansell. Most people make a decision on buying a Lotus emotively - not crunching numbers to ensure they can't be beaten in pub top trumps.
I'm too busy enjoying driving the Evora or chatting to proper enthusiasts who don't see another sports car as a threat to their manliness, but as a conversation piece and an experience as a whole. Or on track mixing it with the enthusiasts who respect that there are things both driver and car can't do that the others can.
The current trend seems to be "PH: Boring Porsche Asshats Matter" on every thread - but particularly prevalent on anything Lotus. Bring back "PH: Enthusiasts Matter" - the sooner the better.
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