Primary secondary position -good or bad for cycling driving?
Discussion
saaby93 said:
Have you found anything that tests those concepts to say they're any better than normal rules - keep over to the left
What's your source for these 'normal rules'?I can't find them in the highway code, or any road traffic act, and I wasn't taught them in any driving or cycling lesson.
saaby93 said:
cb1965 said:
Ares said:
Very mature, and ignorant. 
Tell me why I am part of the problem (on the basis you don't even know me...?). Or is it a pig ignorant assumption that merely because I am a cyclist as well as a driver, I must be part of the problem?
Because, like so many of your type, you're in utter and complete denial. Tell me why I am part of the problem (on the basis you don't even know me...?). Or is it a pig ignorant assumption that merely because I am a cyclist as well as a driver, I must be part of the problem?
Fair though after that supposed two sides example
Can we get this back on track about whether the way primary and secondary cycling techniques are being used is giving cyclists a bad press and leading to corresponding worse attitude from too many motorists ? Certainly a different attitude than to what are thought normal cyclists that dont use so called blocking manoeuvres.
I notice you ask for links then you go strangely silent when presented with clear evidence about why cycling in the gutter is more dangerous...
WinstonWolf said:
saaby93 said:
cb1965 said:
Ares said:
Very mature, and ignorant.
Tell me why I am part of the problem (on the basis you don't even know me...?). Or is it a pig ignorant assumption that merely because I am a cyclist as well as a driver, I must be part of the problem?
Because, like so many of your type, you're in utter and complete denial. Tell me why I am part of the problem (on the basis you don't even know me...?). Or is it a pig ignorant assumption that merely because I am a cyclist as well as a driver, I must be part of the problem?
Fair though after that supposed two sides example
Can we get this back on track about whether the way primary and secondary cycling techniques are being used is giving cyclists a bad press and leading to corresponding worse attitude from too many motorists ? Certainly a different attitude than to what are thought normal cyclists that dont use so called blocking manoeuvres.
I notice you ask for links then you go strangely silent when presented with clear evidence about why cycling in the gutter is more dangerous...
Seems pretty obvious to everyone, (who isn't a militant prone to baling other people for their own faults).
Kuji said:
WinstonWolf said:
saaby93 said:
cb1965 said:
Ares said:
Very mature, and ignorant.
Tell me why I am part of the problem (on the basis you don't even know me...?). Or is it a pig ignorant assumption that merely because I am a cyclist as well as a driver, I must be part of the problem?
Because, like so many of your type, you're in utter and complete denial. Tell me why I am part of the problem (on the basis you don't even know me...?). Or is it a pig ignorant assumption that merely because I am a cyclist as well as a driver, I must be part of the problem?
Fair though after that supposed two sides example
Can we get this back on track about whether the way primary and secondary cycling techniques are being used is giving cyclists a bad press and leading to corresponding worse attitude from too many motorists ? Certainly a different attitude than to what are thought normal cyclists that dont use so called blocking manoeuvres.
I notice you ask for links then you go strangely silent when presented with clear evidence about why cycling in the gutter is more dangerous...
Seems pretty obvious to everyone, (who isn't a militant prone to baling other people for their own faults).
WinstonWolf said:
saaby93 said:
cb1965 said:
Ares said:
Very mature, and ignorant.
Tell me why I am part of the problem (on the basis you don't even know me...?). Or is it a pig ignorant assumption that merely because I am a cyclist as well as a driver, I must be part of the problem?
Because, like so many of your type, you're in utter and complete denial. Tell me why I am part of the problem (on the basis you don't even know me...?). Or is it a pig ignorant assumption that merely because I am a cyclist as well as a driver, I must be part of the problem?
Fair though after that supposed two sides example
Can we get this back on track about whether the way primary and secondary cycling techniques are being used is giving cyclists a bad press and leading to corresponding worse attitude from too many motorists ? Certainly a different attitude than to what are thought normal cyclists that dont use so called blocking manoeuvres.
I notice you ask for links then you go strangely silent when presented with clear evidence about why cycling in the gutter is more dangerous...
cb1965 said:
WinstonWolf said:
saaby93 said:
cb1965 said:
Ares said:
Very mature, and ignorant.
Tell me why I am part of the problem (on the basis you don't even know me...?). Or is it a pig ignorant assumption that merely because I am a cyclist as well as a driver, I must be part of the problem?
Because, like so many of your type, you're in utter and complete denial. Tell me why I am part of the problem (on the basis you don't even know me...?). Or is it a pig ignorant assumption that merely because I am a cyclist as well as a driver, I must be part of the problem?
Fair though after that supposed two sides example
Can we get this back on track about whether the way primary and secondary cycling techniques are being used is giving cyclists a bad press and leading to corresponding worse attitude from too many motorists ? Certainly a different attitude than to what are thought normal cyclists that dont use so called blocking manoeuvres.
I notice you ask for links then you go strangely silent when presented with clear evidence about why cycling in the gutter is more dangerous...
WinstonWolf said:
Still no comment on the inadequacies of our peripheral vision and why it makes riding in the gutter more dangerous?
Riding in the gutter is more dangerous due to road quality, drain covers and mostly the s
t and debris that congregates there. As a cyclist, that never rides in a city(!), I will alway ride 18-24" from the edge of the road, which from memory is what the Highway Code suggests?cb1965 said:
Ares said:
Very mature, and ignorant.
Tell me why I am part of the problem (on the basis you don't even know me...?). Or is it a pig ignorant assumption that merely because I am a cyclist as well as a driver, I must be part of the problem?
Because, like so many of your type, you're in utter and complete denial. Tell me why I am part of the problem (on the basis you don't even know me...?). Or is it a pig ignorant assumption that merely because I am a cyclist as well as a driver, I must be part of the problem?
Please tell me what I am in denial of? and again, tell me why I am part of the problem?
Kuji said:
Maybe you just need better tyres and some suitable suspension on your bikes, to make the gutters more usable?
Seems pretty obvious to everyone, (who isn't a militant prone to baling other people for their own faults).
Don't be stupid. I should put heavy tyres and heavier suspension on my 6.5kg bike just so I can ride over potholes, broken glass and debris on the side of the road? and give a driver an extra 6" of space (what would make absolutely no difference to them whatsoever). Add flexibility to a bike that has been developed to be as stiff as humanly possible. Furthermore, suspension isn't springs and dampers, you know that don't you? Seems pretty obvious to everyone, (who isn't a militant prone to baling other people for their own faults).
Not sure what a 'militant prone' is, but you seem to be suggesting that I'm baling other people for my faults. What people? and what faults?
Ares said:
WinstonWolf said:
Still no comment on the inadequacies of our peripheral vision and why it makes riding in the gutter more dangerous?
Riding in the gutter is more dangerous due to road quality, drain covers and mostly the st and debris that congregates there. As a cyclist, that never rides in a city(!), I will alway ride 18-24" from the edge of the road, which from memory is what the Highway Code suggests?Then the drain covers and refuse wouldn't require you to 'put yourself' at risk.
After all, you don't see people doing white water rafting on a holiday lilo.
Ares said:
Kuji said:
Maybe you just need better tyres and some suitable suspension on your bikes, to make the gutters more usable?
Seems pretty obvious to everyone, (who isn't a militant prone to baling other people for their own faults).
Don't be stupid. I should put heavy tyres and heavier suspension on my 6.5kg bike just so I can ride over potholes, broken glass and debris on the side of the road? and give a driver an extra 6" of space (what would make absolutely no difference to them whatsoever). Add flexibility to a bike that has been developed to be as stiff as humanly possible. Furthermore, suspension isn't springs and dampers, you know that don't you? Seems pretty obvious to everyone, (who isn't a militant prone to baling other people for their own faults).
Not sure what a 'militant prone' is, but you seem to be suggesting that I'm baling other people for my faults. What people? and what faults?
The roads and their gutters have been the same way for years and generations of children and adults managed without becoming apoplectic about it on a forum.
If you insist of buying and using a bike that isn't fit for purpose, knowing full well in advance exactly what the roads are like, that doesn't paint a particularly promising picture about your intelligence (stupid).
Bleat all you want, you have clearly bought the wrong tool for the job in hand.
Kuji said:
Ares said:
Kuji said:
Maybe you just need better tyres and some suitable suspension on your bikes, to make the gutters more usable?
Seems pretty obvious to everyone, (who isn't a militant prone to baling other people for their own faults).
Don't be stupid. I should put heavy tyres and heavier suspension on my 6.5kg bike just so I can ride over potholes, broken glass and debris on the side of the road? and give a driver an extra 6" of space (what would make absolutely no difference to them whatsoever). Add flexibility to a bike that has been developed to be as stiff as humanly possible. Furthermore, suspension isn't springs and dampers, you know that don't you? Seems pretty obvious to everyone, (who isn't a militant prone to baling other people for their own faults).
Not sure what a 'militant prone' is, but you seem to be suggesting that I'm baling other people for my faults. What people? and what faults?
The roads and their gutters have been the same way for years and generations of children and adults managed without becoming apoplectic about it on a frum.
If you insist of buying and using a bike that isn't fit for purpose, knowing full well in advance exactly what the roads are like, that doesn't paint a particularly promising picture about your intelligence.
Bleat all you want, you have clearly bought the wrong tool for the job in hand.
Its utterly hilarious getting called militant for following advice published by ROSPA amongst many other bodies.
I suppose the car drivers criticizing this advice have campaigned or spoken to ROSPA etc about this? Or are you just feeling entitled because YOUR very important journey has been held up by someone less important than you.........
I suppose the car drivers criticizing this advice have campaigned or spoken to ROSPA etc about this? Or are you just feeling entitled because YOUR very important journey has been held up by someone less important than you.........
M-SportMatt said:
Its utterly hilarious getting called militant for following advice published by ROSPA amongst many other bodies.
I suppose the car drivers criticizing this advice have campaigned or spoken to ROSPA etc about this? Or are you just feeling entitled because YOUR very important journey has been held up by someone less important than you.........
My suspicion is that each and every one of the complainants has done no more training than you need to do to get through the basic driving test.I suppose the car drivers criticizing this advice have campaigned or spoken to ROSPA etc about this? Or are you just feeling entitled because YOUR very important journey has been held up by someone less important than you.........
Kuji said:
Ares said:
WinstonWolf said:
Still no comment on the inadequacies of our peripheral vision and why it makes riding in the gutter more dangerous?
Riding in the gutter is more dangerous due to road quality, drain covers and mostly the st and debris that congregates there. As a cyclist, that never rides in a city(!), I will alway ride 18-24" from the edge of the road, which from memory is what the Highway Code suggests?Then the drain covers and refuse wouldn't require you to 'put yourself' at risk.
After all, you don't see people doing white water rafting on a holiday lilo.
And drain covers do put me at significant, wet and dry. Easy to get catapulted off and into the path of a car following. Few things are riskier.
Kuji said:
Then you have neither anyone's sympathy or respect.
The roads and their gutters have been the same way for years and generations of children and adults managed without becoming apoplectic about it on a forum.
If you insist of buying and using a bike that isn't fit for purpose, knowing full well in advance exactly what the roads are like, that doesn't paint a particularly promising picture about your intelligence (stupid).
Bleat all you want, you have clearly bought the wrong tool for the job in hand.
Perhaps in your infinite wisdom you can suggest a tyre suitable for broken glass, Square edged protruding iron works and wet metal manhole/drain covers?The roads and their gutters have been the same way for years and generations of children and adults managed without becoming apoplectic about it on a forum.
If you insist of buying and using a bike that isn't fit for purpose, knowing full well in advance exactly what the roads are like, that doesn't paint a particularly promising picture about your intelligence (stupid).
Bleat all you want, you have clearly bought the wrong tool for the job in hand.
Actually nobody is complaining about their bike, you still need to get over early to turn right and you still need to make sure you dont get forced into the kerb.
None of which is changed by the bike you ride, unless you suggest we all get 4 foot wide bikes......
Kuji said:
Then you have neither anyone's sympathy or respect.
The roads and their gutters have been the same way for years and generations of children and adults managed without becoming apoplectic about it on a forum.
If you insist of buying and using a bike that isn't fit for purpose, knowing full well in advance exactly what the roads are like, that doesn't paint a particularly promising picture about your intelligence (stupid).
Bleat all you want, you have clearly bought the wrong tool for the job in hand.
Another ridiculous comment. I'm not looking for sympathy and respect. I'm giving real world facts about cycling.The roads and their gutters have been the same way for years and generations of children and adults managed without becoming apoplectic about it on a forum.
If you insist of buying and using a bike that isn't fit for purpose, knowing full well in advance exactly what the roads are like, that doesn't paint a particularly promising picture about your intelligence (stupid).
Bleat all you want, you have clearly bought the wrong tool for the job in hand.
Aside from the fact that roads and gutters HAVE got worse even in the last 10 years, lets alone 20/30 years,....what hasn't changed is how and where people ride their bikes. I did my cycling proficiency course in the early 80s, even then, cyclists were told to ride 12" out the roadside grates - 24" into the road. Nothing has changed, apart from how that behaviour is viewed by a proportion of the driving public. And I'm not apoplectic - I'm not the one hurling insults ;-)
I have the best tool for the job. A top level road bike to ride on the road. There is no bike that would be more fit for purpose to ride on the road. What do you think would be?
FWIW, I have only had one puncture in the last 7 months/12,000km of riding, and in that time I have had no road rage from drivers, no horns sounding from drivers, not shouting from drivers. I have however had literally hundred of waves of thanks from drivers as I've shown them courtesy.
It would rather suggest that I'm doing it right.
Kuji said:
Bleat all you want, you have clearly bought the wrong tool for the job in hand.
Look most cyclists are ok with their bikes and most drivers are ok with those cyclistsOf the others, which end is the tool is open for question
All I'm asking here is whether the Primary Secondary position ( and Gutter) mantra is actually doing any good for cycling, let alone the knock on effect on driving.
WinstonWolf said:
M-SportMatt said:
Its utterly hilarious getting called militant for following advice published by ROSPA amongst many other bodies.
I suppose the car drivers criticizing this advice have campaigned or spoken to ROSPA etc about this? Or are you just feeling entitled because YOUR very important journey has been held up by someone less important than you.........
My suspicion is that each and every one of the complainants has done no more training than you need to do to get through the basic driving test.I suppose the car drivers criticizing this advice have campaigned or spoken to ROSPA etc about this? Or are you just feeling entitled because YOUR very important journey has been held up by someone less important than you.........
Turning left/right
Slowing down.
Hazard ahead.
etc.
etc.
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