No ICE from 2040?!?
Discussion
Almost regardless of the point being made against EVs , the underlying and actual reason is a visceral dislike of them because they don't as sound as good as we kid ourselves most petrol cars do . If EV ranges were 500miles and lithium in abundant supply (other objections are available of course ) do we really think many would change their minds? I don't ...
Salamura said:
What utter bks. It is ridiculous that politics is trying to drive technology, when it should be the other way around. This only shows how short-sighted politicians are and how they refuse to see the big picture.
- How do they know that the EV technology (mainly battery capacity) will be advanced enough by then that it will allow the same sort of range and charging speed as today's ICE powered cars? Or do they expect that the public will just accept that a journey from London to Birmingham will from then on be a 2 day trip?
- They refuse to see that the chunk of the pollution generated by transport vehicles is not contributed to passenger cars, but lorries and ships, which has been shown by not one study. Surely, you can't expect fully electric trucks or ships by 2040. The required range will just be impossible to achieve, so these will remain diesel with 99.9% certainty.
- If for the sake of argument everyone switches to electric, where is all the electricity come from? Politicians miss the fact that most of the electricity is produced by oil, gas and coal these days. With this technology, the well-to-wheel efficiency of electric vehicles has time and again been shown to be much poorer than gasoline and diesel cars (I should know, I work in this field). Unless we build tens of nuclear power plants (which we won't, once again because of populim, eve though they are statistically the safest and best long term solution of our energy needs. The French got that one right.) I just don't see how burning oil and gas to power cars will reduce pollution at all. In fact, i expect it to get worse. I don't believe that by 2040 we will have solved the renewable energy problem.
In conclusion, stupid decision, which might or might not get implemented, that will get us nowhere in terms of producing the benefits they tell people will be possible... Unless there is a breakthrough in battery and energy production technology. But you can't legislate for that...
It is good for a government to have a goal but politicians have always had a problem with reality and staying connected to it.- How do they know that the EV technology (mainly battery capacity) will be advanced enough by then that it will allow the same sort of range and charging speed as today's ICE powered cars? Or do they expect that the public will just accept that a journey from London to Birmingham will from then on be a 2 day trip?
- They refuse to see that the chunk of the pollution generated by transport vehicles is not contributed to passenger cars, but lorries and ships, which has been shown by not one study. Surely, you can't expect fully electric trucks or ships by 2040. The required range will just be impossible to achieve, so these will remain diesel with 99.9% certainty.
- If for the sake of argument everyone switches to electric, where is all the electricity come from? Politicians miss the fact that most of the electricity is produced by oil, gas and coal these days. With this technology, the well-to-wheel efficiency of electric vehicles has time and again been shown to be much poorer than gasoline and diesel cars (I should know, I work in this field). Unless we build tens of nuclear power plants (which we won't, once again because of populim, eve though they are statistically the safest and best long term solution of our energy needs. The French got that one right.) I just don't see how burning oil and gas to power cars will reduce pollution at all. In fact, i expect it to get worse. I don't believe that by 2040 we will have solved the renewable energy problem.
In conclusion, stupid decision, which might or might not get implemented, that will get us nowhere in terms of producing the benefits they tell people will be possible... Unless there is a breakthrough in battery and energy production technology. But you can't legislate for that...
The above comments on where the juice is going to come from is valid but it still needs to get to the end use i.e. the car. There is very little excess capacity in the grid, I think it is assumed renewables with step up for the shortfall in capacity. The other issue I didn't see addressed is does the national grid have the capacity to deliver all the power required?
We as future electric car owners will expect them to be charged very quickly which requires much greater power capacity than is in most domestic properties. How is this issue going to be dealt with and you know who will pay for it!
IMO, and i probably talk from a relative position of enlightenment here, most people will buy a pure EV as their next new car well before 2040 anyway.
The next gen of EV's (being developed by people like me right now, available in show rooms from around the 2020 timeframe) will bring close to cost parity with ICEs and enough range for a large chunk of the population, and more than enough performance and very good driving dynamics. The generation after that (MY2025) will be cheaper, faster, and have sufficient range to make them suitable for all. And 10 years from now, the social change, infrastructure change and support for EV's will be in place, driven by market adoption.
The next gen of EV's (being developed by people like me right now, available in show rooms from around the 2020 timeframe) will bring close to cost parity with ICEs and enough range for a large chunk of the population, and more than enough performance and very good driving dynamics. The generation after that (MY2025) will be cheaper, faster, and have sufficient range to make them suitable for all. And 10 years from now, the social change, infrastructure change and support for EV's will be in place, driven by market adoption.
Just to toss this into the argument .
The batteries for electric cars are classed as a Hazardous Load when being transported about .
All the F1 transporter drivers had to get ADR training and qualifications after the French pulled them a couple of years ago because of the batteries being carried.
The batteries for electric cars are classed as a Hazardous Load when being transported about .
All the F1 transporter drivers had to get ADR training and qualifications after the French pulled them a couple of years ago because of the batteries being carried.
Charlie Hoskins said:
"The strategy comes amid warnings that the UK’s high level of air pollution could be be responsible for 40,000 premature deaths a year."
"Could be".
Not the same as "is". Is it ?
So........ the motive is the health and well-being of the nation then ?
Prove it.
Ban smoking.
Now.
I believe someone said the deaths were premature by 3.5 days (or was it hours)"Could be".
Not the same as "is". Is it ?
So........ the motive is the health and well-being of the nation then ?
Prove it.
Ban smoking.
Now.
No mention of the non-emission particulates, such as tyre rubber, brake dust, re-lifted dirt, grit etc., that make up to 34% particulates (and increasing as a percentage of total emissions).
The Greens say I does not go far enough. As population increase is a factor, I welcome their ultimate sacrifice.
The Greens say I does not go far enough. As population increase is a factor, I welcome their ultimate sacrifice.
Z064life said:
We will see how much the government cares about pollution when they try to fill the tax hole once petrol cars are no longer sold.
They will soon find a way round that. I personally can't see it happening. The tree-hugger lobbyists are good....but not as good as the Petrochemical lobbyists.
I suspect it will get watered down to include hybrids, with conditions no doubt (minimum electric range etc)
Rather interestingly, the ICE title was rather misleading, but it got me to thinking. Let's look at headlights, heating, aircon, phones, In Car Entertainment, kids electronic games, rear headrest videos, and all the rest of what will by then make up the world of 2040. How on earth are electric cars going to cope with all this?
kambites said:
LandRoverManiac said:
Well there's plenty of stuff which an ICE engine can run on which isn't hydrocarbon-based - alcohol fuels for petrol engines and vegetable oils for old-school diesels to give two examples.
Alcohols and vegetable oils are both hydrocarbons? lowdrag said:
Rather interestingly, the ICE title was rather misleading, but it got me to thinking. Let's look at headlights, heating, aircon, phones, In Car Entertainment, kids electronic games, rear headrest videos, and all the rest of what will by then make up the world of 2040. How on earth are electric cars going to cope with all this?
We're already seeing 48v tech, and looking at the rate in which EV tech is moving, it will be more than sufficient......but assuming there is sufficient 'carrot' to move people to EVs, I can't see the 'stick' of banning new ICE vehicles happening.
Max_Torque said:
IMO, and i probably talk from a relative position of enlightenment here, most people will buy a pure EV as their next new car well before 2040 anyway.
The next gen of EV's (being developed by people like me right now, available in show rooms from around the 2020 timeframe) will bring close to cost parity with ICEs and enough range for a large chunk of the population, and more than enough performance and very good driving dynamics. The generation after that (MY2025) will be cheaper, faster, and have sufficient range to make them suitable for all. And 10 years from now, the social change, infrastructure change and support for EV's will be in place, driven by market adoption.
The next gen of EV's (being developed by people like me right now, available in show rooms from around the 2020 timeframe) will bring close to cost parity with ICEs and enough range for a large chunk of the population, and more than enough performance and very good driving dynamics. The generation after that (MY2025) will be cheaper, faster, and have sufficient range to make them suitable for all. And 10 years from now, the social change, infrastructure change and support for EV's will be in place, driven by market adoption.
So you are saying that journeys like this will be available in 5-10 years? I've done over 1,000 miles in a day a few times, but I can't see that happening in such a short time frame with electric cars.
Spain October 2016 by Tony Brown, on Flickr
Spain October 2016 by Tony Brown, on Flickr
Deaths each year due to medical errors are approximately er 40,000!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13487/NH...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13487/NH...
lowdrag said:
So you are saying that journeys like this will be available in 5-10 years? I've done over 1,000 miles in a day a few times, but I can't see that happening in such a short time frame with electric cars.
Spain October 2016 by Tony Brown, on Flickr
But you don't do that without stopping. Spain October 2016 by Tony Brown, on Flickr
Even today, Tesla claim you can't drive more than 250 miles without going within 10miles of a Supercharger location.
But beyond that, Halo/Wireless/Dynamic charging is almost here, allowing to charge whilst driving at uptown 60mph.
fesuvious said:
Tomorrow morning I have decided to perform a fecking monster burnout in the Hellcat.
I shall then exit the car, and breathe in the smell of zorst and rubber and the Smile on my face shall be huge.
I will, at all times be thinking of this thread.
Of course, cant do a burnout in an EV, actually hang on, wads of torque from zero RPM is pretty good for burnouts.I shall then exit the car, and breathe in the smell of zorst and rubber and the Smile on my face shall be huge.
I will, at all times be thinking of this thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOXDsUCZfgg
Can help on the exhaust smell but its a start.
But dont try racing one,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNYFYNyqDA8
Obviously would rather have the hellcat but it is funny how fast the Tesla is, its like a middle aged woman given Connor McGregor a pasting, obviously.
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