Electric cars, does everyone really think they are amazing.

Electric cars, does everyone really think they are amazing.

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Discussion

SimonYorkshire

762 posts

115 months

Saturday 22nd September 2018
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RobDickinson said:
no its not , the new cells are more energy dense, thats irrespective of the cell size,its a basic fundamental thing please try to keep up
Point to somewhere that can explain this then Rob, because you (and no-one else here) has. It's been a long time since I found a seemingly regularly updated website who's sole subject was Li-Ion batteries and asked people who try to make the points you do to point out the 'new battery developments' on the site. Nobody ever has pointed to such new battery tech on such authoritative site - but it's common knowledge that recent EVs benefit from better battery packaging (that has now reached the limits of better battery packaging). I mean, Rob, Wow if it's true what you're saying... Why don't you bring the MOD up to speed on the fact that they need not develop new nuclear subs, in just a few years they'll be able to have subs powered by batteries (and of course unlike WW2 subs no engine eh Rob)? MOD will be closely monitoring battery tech - and they know they need nuclear subs because batteries don't and won't cut it. If batteries could cut it that would save the country £billions. Countries planning new subs and aircraft carriers (nukes) are still planning the nukes even for stuff they will be building in a decade.

Edited by SimonYorkshire on Saturday 22 September 00:56

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

253 months

Saturday 22nd September 2018
quotequote all
what the fk are you talking about, if you want to find out info why dont you google it. you obviously dont learn from here.

SimonYorkshire

762 posts

115 months

Saturday 22nd September 2018
quotequote all
RobDickinson said:
what the fk are you talking about, if you want to find out info why dont you google it. you obviously dont learn from here.
You said the new cells are more energy dense. Show us the evidence!
Do you want me to show you the evidence behind my 'packaging' points? You're going to say 'no' because you know I'm right about packaging.

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

253 months

Saturday 22nd September 2018
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you just ignore all evidence anyhow so no

SimonYorkshire

762 posts

115 months

Saturday 22nd September 2018
quotequote all
RobDickinson said:
you just ignore all evidence anyhow so no
Not at all Rob, but you just sidestep questions.

i'm off to bed now and won't be on in the morning (better things to do including handing a Maserati that I've just converted to LPG back to it's owner and banking the profits).

But do enjoy spending a bit of time on Google, seeing I'm right and writing another side stepping post that doesn't admit I'm right in reply to this and my previous posts.

Oh yes, free EV supercharging has ended, just as I predicted. I also predicted that in future electricity to charge EVs will cost a premium (including charging EVs at home over domestic use electricity prices) and that vehicle 'road fund duty' (tax) will rise on EVs. Free supercharging ended before even I thought it would lol. We will talk again in 5 years about electric and duty costs but we'll talk well before then anyway.

G'night

caziques

2,567 posts

167 months

Saturday 22nd September 2018
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SimonYorkshire said:


I also predicted that in future electricity to charge EVs will cost a premium (including charging EVs at home over domestic use electricity prices)
Why suggest this sort of rubbish?

More likely lpg will be taxed as other fossil fuels.

Electric vehicles will undoubtedly have an increasing role to play in the years to come whether you like it or not.

I have a 60 mile range on my van every morning, and I'm saving over £2000 a year - what's not to like.

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

253 months

Saturday 22nd September 2018
quotequote all
because he's an idiot?

electricity prices wont go up, they will long term go down because renewables.

There will be other taxes, road charging etc to cover the loss of fuel duties, but the price of electricity wont be it.

rodericb

6,663 posts

125 months

Saturday 22nd September 2018
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RobDickinson said:
because he's an idiot?

electricity prices wont go up, they will long term go down because renewables.

There will be other taxes, road charging etc to cover the loss of fuel duties, but the price of electricity wont be it.
"electricity" prices *may* not increase markedly but the points at where it's delivered may charge a premium for it. Big Electricity is as new to this as everyone else and any actual developments in that space are very small. Obviously there's a lot of theoretical discussion about high level stuff along the lines of "is there enough generation capacity" but the finer points are a way off, and will take a few years to really catch up with reality.

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

253 months

Saturday 22nd September 2018
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No, they cant charge home users much because the cost of installing solar (and storage) will be too cheap.

Evanivitch

19,808 posts

121 months

Saturday 22nd September 2018
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SimonYorkshire said:
Same old banging head arguments. You wont' be doing 98% of charging at home if you commute far enough eh?
Same old Simple Simon.

In your own numbers Simon:
- What's the average daily mileage in the UK?
- What's the real world range of a 40kWh car?
- How many kWh will the average commuter use daily?
- At 7kW AC home charging, how long will it take to charge a 40kWh car?

Please provide references and show your workings.

Evanivitch

19,808 posts

121 months

Saturday 22nd September 2018
quotequote all
SimonYorkshire said:
MOD will be closely monitoring battery tech - and they know they need nuclear subs because batteries don't and won't cut it.
Edited by SimonYorkshire on Saturday 22 September 00:56
LMAO.

Firstly, MoD are allergic to anything that isn't Lead Acid. They get itchy just at the thought of Lithium.

Secondly, an incredible Strawman there, fine work. We've gone from comparing battery energy density to that of a petrol/diesel tank, to now comparing it to Nuclear reactor. Which no one has suggested, ever.

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

253 months

Saturday 22nd September 2018
quotequote all
I do my longer than average commute on about 7kwh. ...

rodericb

6,663 posts

125 months

Saturday 22nd September 2018
quotequote all
RobDickinson said:
No, they cant charge home users much because the cost of installing solar (and storage) will be too cheap.
Not everyone has the ability to generate and store electricity to the extent that they can go off-grid. Which means they'll still be on the grid. The electricity they consume could literally come from anywhere - from your roof, from a large scale PV generator, wind, gas, atomic... I don't know how efficient your electricity supply chain is but I've found there's usually plenty of fat in certain parts. Meaning when the writing is on the wall for Big Electricity they'll suddenly find some efficiencies and will live another day (or decade).

But if you're away from your home and you're running low on charge you'll have to stop by somewhere. That's when you will pay - either directly or indirectly (or you'll have paid for all of what you'll ever use in the purchase of your car). Granted it won't be the three quid a litre of whatever petrol or diesel costs in England but it'll certainly be more than your electricity home tariff. Those charging facilities need to be paid for, the network augmentation to cater for lot of people using them has to be paid for. And the electricity has to be paid for.

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

253 months

Saturday 22nd September 2018
quotequote all
Of course you'll pay when charging out and about and more than your home rates. ...

98elise

26,380 posts

160 months

Saturday 22nd September 2018
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SimonYorkshire said:
Evanivitch said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
You might work in automotive but you're definitely not an engineer...
thedugmaster was talking along the correct lines, just that he got it the wrong way around. But you know this so why didn't you just say so and nod with him?

There have been no leaps in battery tech. Recent range increases have indeed come from re-packaging batteries, not by going from one big battery to lots of smaller ones but the other way around going from lots of small batteries to a bigger battery. The battery packs used to contain lots of pencil type batteries the same as most laptop computer battery packs, there is lots of empty space in such designs, by making a single battery that only takes the same space as lots of pencil batteries there is no dead space - But this is not an advance of the battery chemistry / tech, it is just a benefit that comes from better packaging and now that you have gotten rid of the dead space... no better batteries for EVs on the horizon until there is a breakthrough in the actual tech. Don't hold your breath.

Engineers that have to obfuscate to make a point probably don't have much of a point?


Edited by SimonYorkshire on Friday 21st September 23:12
Except dug master doesn't understand what a battery is vs a cell. The tesla battery is made up of 1000's of smaller cells. That's the very definition of a battery.

Its not a work around, that's what batteries are.

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

253 months

Saturday 22nd September 2018
quotequote all
even your 12v lead acid battery is made up of cells biggrin

98elise

26,380 posts

160 months

Saturday 22nd September 2018
quotequote all
SimonYorkshire said:
RobDickinson said:
no its not , the new cells are more energy dense, thats irrespective of the cell size,its a basic fundamental thing please try to keep up
Point to somewhere that can explain this then Rob, because you (and no-one else here) has. It's been a long time since I found a seemingly regularly updated website who's sole subject was Li-Ion batteries and asked people who try to make the points you do to point out the 'new battery developments' on the site. Nobody ever has pointed to such new battery tech on such authoritative site - but it's common knowledge that recent EVs benefit from better battery packaging (that has now reached the limits of better battery packaging). I mean, Rob, Wow if it's true what you're saying... Why don't you bring the MOD up to speed on the fact that they need not develop new nuclear subs, in just a few years they'll be able to have subs powered by batteries (and of course unlike WW2 subs no engine eh Rob)? MOD will be closely monitoring battery tech - and they know they need nuclear subs because batteries don't and won't cut it. If batteries could cut it that would save the country £billions. Countries planning new subs and aircraft carriers (nukes) are still planning the nukes even for stuff they will be building in a decade.

Edited by SimonYorkshire on Saturday 22 September 00:56
Lol!!!

You know non nuclear subs are powered by batteries don't you!


I've just remembered you're that nutter who claims to be an engineer but clearly has no clue about any basic engineering principals smile


Edited to add...just for clarity they have generators for recharging.

Edited by 98elise on Saturday 22 September 09:50

foggy

1,156 posts

281 months

Saturday 22nd September 2018
quotequote all
Its not so much the cost electric-ing up out and about, but the faff of every region having a different charging network provider meaning you need to get a card or subscribe to an app for every bloody one! Why ever can’t it be done with a simple contactless credit or debit card, you know, like a proper fuelling station if you want under 30 quids worth. Imbeciles! Another reason why I’d much rather take a hybrid or proper fuelled car from the company fleet on a journey rather than the Leaf or Tesla.

Evanivitch

19,808 posts

121 months

Saturday 22nd September 2018
quotequote all
foggy said:
Its not so much the cost electric-ing up out and about, but the faff of every region having a different charging network provider meaning you need to get a card or subscribe to an app for every bloody one! Why ever can’t it be done with a simple contactless credit or debit card, you know, like a proper fuelling station if you want under 30 quids worth. Imbeciles! Another reason why I’d much rather take a hybrid or proper fuelled car from the company fleet on a journey rather than the Leaf or Tesla.
That's exactly what recent government policy is trying to address.

InstaVolt for example run exactly that kind of model.

Evanivitch

19,808 posts

121 months

Saturday 22nd September 2018
quotequote all
rodericb said:
But if you're away from your home and you're running low on charge you'll have to stop by somewhere. That's when you will pay - either directly or indirectly (or you'll have paid for all of what you'll ever use in the purchase of your car).
Same as the motorway services in the UK charge a significant premium over normal fuel stations then.

Destination chargers already play a part in this. I utilise 3 hotels on a regular basis for work travel because they have complimentary guest charging.