Fast Fords

Author
Discussion

theplayingmantis

Original Poster:

3,721 posts

81 months

Monday 21st August 2017
quotequote all
Will there ever be another one?

I grew up with my old man buying german import mark ii grenadas, that had been made fast. before that and my time he had sport cortinas (not sure if thats a contradiction). and would have liked to carry on the tradition one day.

I dont know too much of the heritage of fast fords, but i do know they don't make them anymore (im not talking hot hatches or muscle cars)

will we ever see the likes of a Sierra RS Cosworth again? could a RS mondeo be a thing ever?

the last full size car that could be described as such was variations of the Falcon down under i think. thats now been canned.

its sad

Centurion07

10,381 posts

246 months

Monday 21st August 2017
quotequote all
Doubtful.

The market isn't there any more, hence the RS Focus and the Mustang. The german manufacturers have the fast saloon market sewn up.

Nobody wants to pay that kind of money for a Ford.

M-SportMatt

1,923 posts

137 months

Monday 21st August 2017
quotequote all
theplayingmantis said:
Will there ever be another one?

I grew up with my old man buying german import mark ii grenadas, that had been made fast. before that and my time he had sport cortinas (not sure if thats a contradiction). and would have liked to carry on the tradition one day.

I dont know too much of the heritage of fast fords, but i do know they don't make them anymore (im not talking hot hatches or muscle cars)

will we ever see the likes of a Sierra RS Cosworth again? could a RS mondeo be a thing ever?

the last full size car that could be described as such was variations of the Falcon down under i think. thats now been canned.

its sad
So you're not on about hatches.....but then quote two hatches....Sierra RS Cosworth is a hatch ( saph was the later saloon ) and the mondeo is a hatch.

The Focus RS is the current Fast Ford...or the Mustang depending on your point of view.....

theplayingmantis

Original Poster:

3,721 posts

81 months

Monday 21st August 2017
quotequote all
M-SportMatt said:
theplayingmantis said:
Will there ever be another one?

I grew up with my old man buying german import mark ii grenadas, that had been made fast. before that and my time he had sport cortinas (not sure if thats a contradiction). and would have liked to carry on the tradition one day.

I dont know too much of the heritage of fast fords, but i do know they don't make them anymore (im not talking hot hatches or muscle cars)

will we ever see the likes of a Sierra RS Cosworth again? could a RS mondeo be a thing ever?

the last full size car that could be described as such was variations of the Falcon down under i think. thats now been canned.

its sad
So you're not on about hatches.....but then quote two hatches....Sierra RS Cosworth is a hatch ( saph was the later saloon ) and the mondeo is a hatch.

The Focus RS is the current Fast Ford...or the Mustang depending on your point of view.....
dont be pedantic.

i clearly quote full size car. i consider a focus a hot hatch. to compare it to a rs cosworth is just silly,

M-SportMatt

1,923 posts

137 months

Monday 21st August 2017
quotequote all
theplayingmantis said:
dont be pedantic.

i clearly quote full size car. i consider a focus a hot hatch. to compare it to a rs cosworth is just silly,
If you meant 'Full Size' whatever the hell that means ( i mean are there any 3/4 sized replicas about? ) surely you meant Granada's then or Scorpios


Is it silly to compare the Sierra to the Focus? The Mk3 focus is way bigger than a Mk1 Sierra Hatch, way more powerful and way faster so yes maybe I shouldn't compare them....BUT

Both were/are HALO performance models and both compete/competed in the BTCC and both are hatches, they couldn't be more similar apart from AWD vs RWD.


if you meant it, why not just ask if Ford are going to make a big performance saloon?

It's because the answer is a resounding no, who in their right mind is going to pay what would surely be north of 40k for a Ford Saloon in a hugely competitive segment.


generationx

6,645 posts

104 months

Monday 21st August 2017
quotequote all
M-SportMatt said:
Is it silly to compare the Sierra to the Focus? The Mk3 focus is way bigger than a Mk1 Sierra Hatch, way more powerful and way faster
Matt's definitely correct here. When I ran one (late 90s) I thought the Sierra RS was a big car (certainly compared to my previous Escort RS Turbo) but park one next to a modern Focus and it looks positively small. And the Focus would blow it in to the weeds comparing two standard cars.

The difference now is that Ford don't need to produce anything like the Sierra as homologation rules for motorsport have changed so radically. Most RS Ford models up to the Escort RS Cosworth were put in to production for that reason.

Resolutionary

1,253 posts

170 months

Monday 21st August 2017
quotequote all
M-SportMatt said:
It's because the answer is a resounding no, who in their right mind is going to pay what would surely be north of 40k for a Ford Saloon in a hugely competitive segment.
Funny thing is the classifieds are littered with £40k+ examples of yesteryear's Ford heroes / halos. There is a market, but a rose-tinted one!

Matt Harper

6,613 posts

200 months

Monday 21st August 2017
quotequote all
Taurus SHO

theplayingmantis

Original Poster:

3,721 posts

81 months

Monday 21st August 2017
quotequote all
M-SportMatt said:
theplayingmantis said:
dont be pedantic.

i clearly quote full size car. i consider a focus a hot hatch. to compare it to a rs cosworth is just silly,
If you meant 'Full Size' whatever the hell that means ( i mean are there any 3/4 sized replicas about? ) surely you meant Granada's then or Scorpios


Is it silly to compare the Sierra to the Focus? The Mk3 focus is way bigger than a Mk1 Sierra Hatch, way more powerful and way faster so yes maybe I shouldn't compare them....BUT

Both were/are HALO performance models and both compete/competed in the BTCC and both are hatches, they couldn't be more similar apart from AWD vs RWD.


if you meant it, why not just ask if Ford are going to make a big performance saloon?

It's because the answer is a resounding no, who in their right mind is going to pay what would surely be north of 40k for a Ford Saloon in a hugely competitive segment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full-size_car

ok will ford ever make a fast saloon again rather than a chavvy (perceived) fast focus.

how much is a mondeo vignale in full spec?

GM, and maybe PSA, did will do it woth the vxr insignia.

M-SportMatt

1,923 posts

137 months

Monday 21st August 2017
quotequote all
theplayingmantis said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full-size_car

ok will ford ever make a fast saloon again rather than a chavvy (perceived) fast focus.

how much is a mondeo vignale in full spec?

GM, and maybe PSA, did will do it woth the vxr insignia.
Given the issues they had with producing a low volume high performance model ( see Mk2 and Mk1 FRS - neither made fully on the main production line, Mk1 sold at a loss, Mk2 quality issues ) then unless they can integrate into the main production line ( hence 5 dr focus rs this time ) and produce it at a profit then i doubt it.

Never say never but there is no real need and dare I say it no real market.

theplayingmantis

Original Poster:

3,721 posts

81 months

Monday 21st August 2017
quotequote all
M-SportMatt said:
Given the issues they had with producing a low volume high performance model ( see Mk2 and Mk1 FRS - neither made fully on the main production line, Mk1 sold at a loss, Mk2 quality issues ) then unless they can integrate into the main production line ( hence 5 dr focus rs this time ) and produce it at a profit then i doubt it.

Never say never but there is no real need and dare I say it no real market.
if they could knock a fast saloon (edit, saloon style, yes the sierra was a hatchback, but not at least in my perception as an out and out one like a focus is)out for under 40k i would consider one. but i fear sadly you are right and they never will again.

Edited by theplayingmantis on Monday 21st August 14:45

KevinCamaroSS

11,553 posts

279 months

Monday 21st August 2017
quotequote all
Going from the thread title, there are several current UK models that fall into that grouping, Mustang, Focus RS, GT etc. Not sure what saloon style cars are available in the US at present?

theplayingmantis

Original Poster:

3,721 posts

81 months

Monday 21st August 2017
quotequote all
KevinCamaroSS said:
Going from the thread title, there are several current UK models that fall into that grouping, Mustang, Focus RS, GT etc. Not sure what saloon style cars are available in the US at present?
im talking about the man on the streets family car. yes appreciate the focus fill that gap but i mean the mondeo/sierra model the flagship model for want of a better word. an ordinary car made fast, a mondeo rs is such a thing existed

super7

1,922 posts

207 months

Monday 21st August 2017
quotequote all
Build a stripped out Fiesta R5 Rally car, give it more horsepower and sell it for the road....


M-SportMatt

1,923 posts

137 months

Monday 21st August 2017
quotequote all
super7 said:
Build a stripped out Fiesta R5 Rally car, give it more horsepower and sell it for the road....
And after all the messing about hand building them as Ford would have to do about 4 people would actually stump up the cash.....

Resolutionary

1,253 posts

170 months

Monday 21st August 2017
quotequote all
theplayingmantis said:
im talking about the man on the streets family car. yes appreciate the focus fill that gap but i mean the mondeo/sierra model the flagship model for want of a better word. an ordinary car made fast, a mondeo rs is such a thing existed
Earlier, in the M / AMG / RS Heritage thread, referring to sport prefixes:

theplayingmantis said:
the average buyer wouldnt know what either meant or represented
If the man on the street happens to be the average buyer, they probably aren't in the market for anything particularly akin to 'flagship'. Ford have decidedly shifted their efforts to the hatchback market more than saloon, where they do bloody well in this country, and to the GT market where they pick up on historic lineage.

I would have loved to see the Cosworth / Ford partnership survive into the 2000's and present day with uber saloons but as others have mentioned, the Aussie and US markets are offered fast four door cars because they're still deemed a reasonable option, for a plethora of reasons.

Zetec-S

5,832 posts

92 months

Monday 21st August 2017
quotequote all
I'd love it if they made an "RS Mondeo" - RWD and the same V8 as in the Mustang cloud9

Trouble is it would probably cost more than a Mustang, and getting on towards 'M' car territory. So they'd only sell a handful. Either that or to keep the cost competitive they'd have to sell at a loss. I'm sure neither option is in line with their "corporate goals".

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 21st August 2017
quotequote all
theplayingmantis said:
M-SportMatt said:
theplayingmantis said:
Will there ever be another one?

I grew up with my old man buying german import mark ii grenadas, that had been made fast. before that and my time he had sport cortinas (not sure if thats a contradiction). and would have liked to carry on the tradition one day.

I dont know too much of the heritage of fast fords, but i do know they don't make them anymore (im not talking hot hatches or muscle cars)

will we ever see the likes of a Sierra RS Cosworth again? could a RS mondeo be a thing ever?

the last full size car that could be described as such was variations of the Falcon down under i think. thats now been canned.

its sad
So you're not on about hatches.....but then quote two hatches....Sierra RS Cosworth is a hatch ( saph was the later saloon ) and the mondeo is a hatch.

The Focus RS is the current Fast Ford...or the Mustang depending on your point of view.....
dont be pedantic.

i clearly quote full size car. i consider a focus a hot hatch. to compare it to a rs cosworth is just silly,
The Escort Cosworth is a direct comparison to the current Focus range I would suggest.

The Escort Cosworth was built on the Sierra platform, not the FWD escort platform. When the original UK focus came out it was smaller, but the USA version was about the size of the Escort Cosworth, they then went to a world platform that is the same size of the US spec car, its bigger than it looks.

When we ran a Group A Sapphire, we reshelled that into an Escort Cosworth, then we looked at reshelling that into a Focus (the original UK one), but decided not too because it was heavier!

theplayingmantis

Original Poster:

3,721 posts

81 months

Monday 21st August 2017
quotequote all
Resolutionary said:
theplayingmantis said:
im talking about the man on the streets family car. yes appreciate the focus fill that gap but i mean the mondeo/sierra model the flagship model for want of a better word. an ordinary car made fast, a mondeo rs is such a thing existed
Earlier, in the M / AMG / RS Heritage thread, referring to sport prefixes:

theplayingmantis said:
the average buyer wouldnt know what either meant or represented
If the man on the street happens to be the average buyer, they probably aren't in the market for anything particularly akin to 'flagship'. Ford have decidedly shifted their efforts to the hatchback market more than saloon, where they do bloody well in this country, and to the GT market where they pick up on historic lineage.

I would have loved to see the Cosworth / Ford partnership survive into the 2000's and present day with uber saloons but as others have mentioned, the Aussie and US markets are offered fast four door cars because they're still deemed a reasonable option, for a plethora of reasons.
im not saying the man on the street would know what the suffix meant! im using the man on the streets car to convey what im trying to get across when i say by fast ford when people point out they already exist in the focus/mustang.

whats the us fast 4 door ford

theplayingmantis

Original Poster:

3,721 posts

81 months

Monday 21st August 2017
quotequote all
jsf said:
theplayingmantis said:
M-SportMatt said:
theplayingmantis said:
Will there ever be another one?

I grew up with my old man buying german import mark ii grenadas, that had been made fast. before that and my time he had sport cortinas (not sure if thats a contradiction). and would have liked to carry on the tradition one day.

I dont know too much of the heritage of fast fords, but i do know they don't make them anymore (im not talking hot hatches or muscle cars)

will we ever see the likes of a Sierra RS Cosworth again? could a RS mondeo be a thing ever?

the last full size car that could be described as such was variations of the Falcon down under i think. thats now been canned.

its sad
So you're not on about hatches.....but then quote two hatches....Sierra RS Cosworth is a hatch ( saph was the later saloon ) and the mondeo is a hatch.

The Focus RS is the current Fast Ford...or the Mustang depending on your point of view.....
dont be pedantic.

i clearly quote full size car. i consider a focus a hot hatch. to compare it to a rs cosworth is just silly,
The Escort Cosworth is a direct comparison to the current Focus range I would suggest.

The Escort Cosworth was built on the Sierra platform, not the FWD escort platform. When the original UK focus came out it was smaller, but the USA version was about the size of the Escort Cosworth, they then went to a world platform that is the same size of the US spec car, its bigger than it looks.

When we ran a Group A Sapphire, we reshelled that into an Escort Cosworth, then we looked at reshelling that into a Focus (the original UK one), but decided not too because it was heavier!
yes thats how the focus sits in my head, equivalent to the old escort, regrdless of how fast and long its now got. the sierra is the mondeo, not sure wtf an orion is?