Please Drive Fast Through The Village
Discussion
I'm currently visiting the village of Cound in Shrewsbury. I've noticed in Google Streetview images from 2009 the villages of Cound and Upper Cound are all NSL. Now they're covered by 30mph limits.
According to the available documentation, the council decided to implement 30mph limits in outlying villages around Shrewsbury simply on the basis that villages should have 30mph limits, regardless of the road types, accident statistics and the need to slow traffic down.
https://shropshire.gov.uk/committee-services/Data/...
The average speeds recorded in these villages were 24.7mph and 23.4mph. There may have been the odd very fast person in combination with very slow people, but this seems unlikely in consideration of the nature of the roads and the highest speeds recorded haven't been published.
If average speeds are low and accident rates are low, it begs the question why the bureaucracy and expense is required to introduce the speed limit. Also, it seems to be another case of a road safety initiative that discourages people from thinking for themselves. As it was, people were moderating their speeds on the narrow lanes, seeing the villages and bringing their speed right down. Putting up signs basically telling people 30mph through the villages is safe may well encourage them to drive faster than they were.
The reasoning behind the limit reduction is contradictory, on the one hand it won't slow traffic down but on the other there will be all the safety and environmental benefits of lower traffic speeds.
Surely limits like this are just unnecessary effort and expense, are overcomplicating the road network and are actually encouraging people to drive faster than is perhaps a good idea by leading them to follow speed limits as an instruction rather than judge for themselves what speed is appropriate.
According to the available documentation, the council decided to implement 30mph limits in outlying villages around Shrewsbury simply on the basis that villages should have 30mph limits, regardless of the road types, accident statistics and the need to slow traffic down.
https://shropshire.gov.uk/committee-services/Data/...
The average speeds recorded in these villages were 24.7mph and 23.4mph. There may have been the odd very fast person in combination with very slow people, but this seems unlikely in consideration of the nature of the roads and the highest speeds recorded haven't been published.
If average speeds are low and accident rates are low, it begs the question why the bureaucracy and expense is required to introduce the speed limit. Also, it seems to be another case of a road safety initiative that discourages people from thinking for themselves. As it was, people were moderating their speeds on the narrow lanes, seeing the villages and bringing their speed right down. Putting up signs basically telling people 30mph through the villages is safe may well encourage them to drive faster than they were.
The reasoning behind the limit reduction is contradictory, on the one hand it won't slow traffic down but on the other there will be all the safety and environmental benefits of lower traffic speeds.
Surely limits like this are just unnecessary effort and expense, are overcomplicating the road network and are actually encouraging people to drive faster than is perhaps a good idea by leading them to follow speed limits as an instruction rather than judge for themselves what speed is appropriate.
Blakewater said:
I'm currently visiting the village of Cound in Shrewsbury. I've noticed in Google Streetview images from 2009 the villages of Cound and Upper Cound are all NSL. Now they're covered by 30mph limits.
According to the available documentation, the council decided to implement 30mph limits in outlying villages around Shrewsbury simply on the basis that villages should have 30mph limits, regardless of the road types, accident statistics and the need to slow traffic down.
https://shropshire.gov.uk/committee-services/Data/...
The average speeds recorded in these villages were 24.7mph and 23.4mph. There may have been the odd very fast person in combination with very slow people, but this seems unlikely in consideration of the nature of the roads and the highest speeds recorded haven't been published.
.
I guess with people coming out the cinema on a Friday and the popularity of the tennis club some residents probably campaigned for itAccording to the available documentation, the council decided to implement 30mph limits in outlying villages around Shrewsbury simply on the basis that villages should have 30mph limits, regardless of the road types, accident statistics and the need to slow traffic down.
https://shropshire.gov.uk/committee-services/Data/...
The average speeds recorded in these villages were 24.7mph and 23.4mph. There may have been the odd very fast person in combination with very slow people, but this seems unlikely in consideration of the nature of the roads and the highest speeds recorded haven't been published.
.
Reminds me of a local village near me which has been 30 for as long as I've known it (17 years).
A couple of years ago, a number of residents campaigned to make the village 20mph for reasons relating to "thinking" and "children". Northumberland County Council have very few 20 zones, in fact - they are probably one of the few councils to reject the blanket 20 project most seem to be pursuing. In the end they compromised and the council set up some speed monitoring devices and recorded the average speeds with the 30 limit in place. They then installed this "advisory 20" (black circle rather than red) and monitored the speeds again.
The end result of this utterly pointless scheme was that the average speed actually increased by around 1.5mph.
A couple of years ago, a number of residents campaigned to make the village 20mph for reasons relating to "thinking" and "children". Northumberland County Council have very few 20 zones, in fact - they are probably one of the few councils to reject the blanket 20 project most seem to be pursuing. In the end they compromised and the council set up some speed monitoring devices and recorded the average speeds with the 30 limit in place. They then installed this "advisory 20" (black circle rather than red) and monitored the speeds again.
The end result of this utterly pointless scheme was that the average speed actually increased by around 1.5mph.
peterperkins said:
If you lived on/near/crossed the road in question would you be happy with it to be NSL ?
Speeds were low anyway and few cars drive along here. It's only used by people accessing houses in the immediate vicinity. Upper Cound
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.6397255,-2.66258...
Cound
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.6403465,-2.65425...
When no speed limit signs are around, people use their own judgment. Speed monitoring has shown that judgment to be sound. When signs are put up apparently saying higher speeds are safe, that encourages people to drive faster than they have been.
Part of the local objection has been a lack of police interest in enforcing the speed limit, so people could still speed through the village and get away with it if they had a mind to.
Playing devil's advocate, if it had remained NSL and a policeman witnessed someone whizzing through at 50-60mph without incident but still a bit of a cock thing to do, would there be any case to be answered?
I have a mate who lives in the middle of nowhere served by very narrow, twisty and hedge-enclosed lanes with an NSL. No reasonable person does more than 20-30mph at any point as you would be likely to crash if someone is coming the other way. Possibly a similar situation to the OP.
Another of my friends thinks it's great fun to do 60 "because he can". Not come a cropper yet but he will eventually.
When they scrape horse/rambler/cyclist off his car (or him off a tractor), does his driving go immediately from legal but ill-advised to dangerous and illegal?
Perhaps the introduction of 30s is to remove that "legal but ill-advised" element? I doubt anyone considered it would potentially increase the danger!
It wouldn't be the first time an H&S action made things less safe.
I have a mate who lives in the middle of nowhere served by very narrow, twisty and hedge-enclosed lanes with an NSL. No reasonable person does more than 20-30mph at any point as you would be likely to crash if someone is coming the other way. Possibly a similar situation to the OP.
Another of my friends thinks it's great fun to do 60 "because he can". Not come a cropper yet but he will eventually.
When they scrape horse/rambler/cyclist off his car (or him off a tractor), does his driving go immediately from legal but ill-advised to dangerous and illegal?
Perhaps the introduction of 30s is to remove that "legal but ill-advised" element? I doubt anyone considered it would potentially increase the danger!
It wouldn't be the first time an H&S action made things less safe.
donkmeister said:
Playing devil's advocate, if it had remained NSL and a policeman witnessed someone whizzing through at 50-60mph without incident but still a bit of a cock thing to do, would there be any case to be answered?
I have a mate who lives in the middle of nowhere served by very narrow, twisty and hedge-enclosed lanes with an NSL. No reasonable person does more than 20-30mph at any point as you would be likely to crash if someone is coming the other way. Possibly a similar situation to the OP.
Another of my friends thinks it's great fun to do 60 "because he can". Not come a cropper yet but he will eventually.
When they scrape horse/rambler/cyclist off his car (or him off a tractor), does his driving go immediately from legal but ill-advised to dangerous and illegal?
Perhaps the introduction of 30s is to remove that "legal but ill-advised" element? I doubt anyone considered it would potentially increase the danger!
It wouldn't be the first time an H&S action made things less safe.
Yes it would be the FIRST time that an H+S action had such an effectI have a mate who lives in the middle of nowhere served by very narrow, twisty and hedge-enclosed lanes with an NSL. No reasonable person does more than 20-30mph at any point as you would be likely to crash if someone is coming the other way. Possibly a similar situation to the OP.
Another of my friends thinks it's great fun to do 60 "because he can". Not come a cropper yet but he will eventually.
When they scrape horse/rambler/cyclist off his car (or him off a tractor), does his driving go immediately from legal but ill-advised to dangerous and illegal?
Perhaps the introduction of 30s is to remove that "legal but ill-advised" element? I doubt anyone considered it would potentially increase the danger!
It wouldn't be the first time an H&S action made things less safe.
Blakewater said:
The average speeds recorded in these villages were 24.7mph and 23.4mph. There may have been the odd very fast person in combination with very slow people, but this seems unlikely in consideration of the nature of the roads and the highest speeds recorded haven't been published.
That sounds like quite a high average speed for traffic in a built-up area. To achieve that, cars must be travelling well in excess of it for quite a portion of the timeBlakewater said:
When no speed limit signs are around, people use their own judgment. Speed monitoring has shown that judgment to be sound. When signs are put up apparently saying higher speeds are safe, that encourages people to drive faster than they have been.
Do you honestly think that reducing the speed limit on a NSL road to 30mph encourages people to speed up? Just think about it for 2 seconds before you answer.boyse7en said:
Blakewater said:
The average speeds recorded in these villages were 24.7mph and 23.4mph. There may have been the odd very fast person in combination with very slow people, but this seems unlikely in consideration of the nature of the roads and the highest speeds recorded haven't been published.
That sounds like quite a high average speed for traffic in a built-up area. To achieve that, cars must be travelling well in excess of it for quite a portion of the timeIf one car passes at 26 and the next at 24 the average is 25, it doesn't mean either of them must have been going faster at the some point.
Used to live in a village and the 30mph was just a mission to see who could get the most above that . I and many neighbours had about 20 mtr vision for turning out , which at 60 mph plus , for some and even higher for sportsbikes , did create issues. We even had a car hit the grass bank in the front of my house and land on the bungalows roof, which was my neighbour. Also there were head on crashes as people tried to straight line corners as driving faster than they could handle it. So, yes, 30mph in the right places is life saving and sensible, as most drivers cant drive !
Interesting scenario. From google maps I think it would be obvious to most of us that a speed of no more than 30 is appropriate on that section.
However, if people could be trusted to exercise their judgement and drive safely, we wouldn't need speed limits anywhere. I think putting in a 30 limit makes perfect sense, if only to stop those who see the limit as a target.
This last category are the biggest idiots, of course - they don't carry out any independent assessment of what a safe speed must be, preferring blindly to stick to the limit. They are probably the same vigilantes that enjoy blocking the middle and outside lanes of motorways at 69.999 mph to save all of us who want to go a little faster from ourselves.
This attitude is becoming ingrained. I read another PH thread where a driver that had spun off in the rain was exonerated from dangerous driving as it couldn't be proven that they were over the speed limit. Which is crazy when you think about what dangerous driving really means.
However, if people could be trusted to exercise their judgement and drive safely, we wouldn't need speed limits anywhere. I think putting in a 30 limit makes perfect sense, if only to stop those who see the limit as a target.
This last category are the biggest idiots, of course - they don't carry out any independent assessment of what a safe speed must be, preferring blindly to stick to the limit. They are probably the same vigilantes that enjoy blocking the middle and outside lanes of motorways at 69.999 mph to save all of us who want to go a little faster from ourselves.
This attitude is becoming ingrained. I read another PH thread where a driver that had spun off in the rain was exonerated from dangerous driving as it couldn't be proven that they were over the speed limit. Which is crazy when you think about what dangerous driving really means.
Blakewater said:
I'm currently visiting the village of Cound in Shrewsbury. I've noticed in Google Streetview images from 2009 the villages of Cound and Upper Cound are all NSL. Now they're covered by 30mph limits.
According to the available documentation, the council decided to implement 30mph limits in outlying villages around Shrewsbury simply on the basis that villages should have 30mph limits, regardless of the road types, accident statistics and the need to slow traffic down.
https://shropshire.gov.uk/committee-services/Data/...
The average speeds recorded in these villages were 24.7mph and 23.4mph. There may have been the odd very fast person in combination with very slow people, but this seems unlikely in consideration of the nature of the roads and the highest speeds recorded haven't been published.
If average speeds are low and accident rates are low, it begs the question why the bureaucracy and expense is required to introduce the speed limit. Also, it seems to be another case of a road safety initiative that discourages people from thinking for themselves. As it was, people were moderating their speeds on the narrow lanes, seeing the villages and bringing their speed right down. Putting up signs basically telling people 30mph through the villages is safe may well encourage them to drive faster than they were.
The reasoning behind the limit reduction is contradictory, on the one hand it won't slow traffic down but on the other there will be all the safety and environmental benefits of lower traffic speeds.
Surely limits like this are just unnecessary effort and expense, are overcomplicating the road network and are actually encouraging people to drive faster than is perhaps a good idea by leading them to follow speed limits as an instruction rather than judge for themselves what speed is appropriate.
I would argue that it is more sensible for the council to bring a few village speeds into line with everywhere else than to wait for some poor sod to be killed by one of the numerous muppets who drives according to signage instructions over common sense. According to the available documentation, the council decided to implement 30mph limits in outlying villages around Shrewsbury simply on the basis that villages should have 30mph limits, regardless of the road types, accident statistics and the need to slow traffic down.
https://shropshire.gov.uk/committee-services/Data/...
The average speeds recorded in these villages were 24.7mph and 23.4mph. There may have been the odd very fast person in combination with very slow people, but this seems unlikely in consideration of the nature of the roads and the highest speeds recorded haven't been published.
If average speeds are low and accident rates are low, it begs the question why the bureaucracy and expense is required to introduce the speed limit. Also, it seems to be another case of a road safety initiative that discourages people from thinking for themselves. As it was, people were moderating their speeds on the narrow lanes, seeing the villages and bringing their speed right down. Putting up signs basically telling people 30mph through the villages is safe may well encourage them to drive faster than they were.
The reasoning behind the limit reduction is contradictory, on the one hand it won't slow traffic down but on the other there will be all the safety and environmental benefits of lower traffic speeds.
Surely limits like this are just unnecessary effort and expense, are overcomplicating the road network and are actually encouraging people to drive faster than is perhaps a good idea by leading them to follow speed limits as an instruction rather than judge for themselves what speed is appropriate.
The rampant dropping of NSLs to 50s on the open road does seem to be some loony agenda but dropping speeds where people live, work, play is just essential these days because so many grown ups lack the ability to self regulate or act responsibly.
)Blakewater said:
Speeds were low anyway and few cars drive along here. It's only used by people accessing houses in the immediate vicinity.
When no speed limit signs are around, people use their own judgment.
Part of the local objection has been a lack of police interest in enforcing the speed limit, so people could still speed through the village and get away with it if they had a mind to.
In reality though, 1 million cars could pass through at a sensible speed and the few that don't wouldn't show up in the average data. When no speed limit signs are around, people use their own judgment.
Part of the local objection has been a lack of police interest in enforcing the speed limit, so people could still speed through the village and get away with it if they had a mind to.
We also know that while the majority use their own judgement. We are blighted by the minority that don't.
Of course people could still speed as there is no enforcement but we do know that the average non thinker will generally just follow the orders from the signage and not apply any independent thought. Show a 30 sign and they'll slow down, don't and the won't.
It's all about having to cater for the vegetable minority because digging a hole and disposing of them or beating them with batons until they understand they should stay indoors is frowned upon.
boyse7en said:
Blakewater said:
The average speeds recorded in these villages were 24.7mph and 23.4mph. There may have been the odd very fast person in combination with very slow people, but this seems unlikely in consideration of the nature of the roads and the highest speeds recorded haven't been published.
That sounds like quite a high average speed for traffic in a built-up area. To achieve that, cars must be travelling well in excess of it for quite a portion of the timeGassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff