Caterham 7 HPC
Discussion
HPCs didn't come with 'straight cut gears' as standard. But I have seen VX HPCs so equipped...all having been ex race though...
There are lots of BDR engined cars purporting to be HPCs. I'd tread very carefully indeed if I were you. Culminator on here is a man I'd trust to impart some knowledge and advice on the jewel that is the BDR HPC.
There are lots of BDR engined cars purporting to be HPCs. I'd tread very carefully indeed if I were you. Culminator on here is a man I'd trust to impart some knowledge and advice on the jewel that is the BDR HPC.
According to "The Magnificent 7", a book by Chris Rees, 62, yes 62, 1700 BDR HPCs were produced in total throughout the entire life of the car (1986-1995). Plus, another 269 1700cc and 149 1600cc non-HPC BDR engined cars/kits were produced. Some of these, I understand, found their way to Japan. The BDR engined cars and Vauxhall XE Redtop 2.0 16v engined cars overlapped somewhat as, legend has it, Japanese enthusiasts insisted on ordering the BDR engine well after the 2.0 Vauxhall engine appeared.
How many 1700 HPCs are left? Anybody's guess. But if I were you I'd get on over to Blatchat, the chat page on lotus7.club, for further info about that.
As Rubystone has said, it's not inconceivable that some non-HPC BDR engined cars could be masquerading as real HPCs. The way to tell a real HPC is the chassis number will have the suffix 'HP', whereas the non-HPC BDR (1600 or 1700) will have the suffix 'BD'. HPC cars had rear anti-roll bars, slip diffs and individually adjustable seats, but these could easily be added later to non-HPC BDRs, so go on the chassis number suffix. A real HPC will defintely be worth more than a non-HPC BDR, but how much more I do not know.
All BDR engined Caterhams, HPCs and non-HPCs will eventually need engine rebuilds. It is well known to be unbelievably expensive to have done properly, and there may only be a handful, if that, of specialists left who can do a top job. This means that BDR engined cars are probably only finding their way into the hands of either very dedicated enthusiasts, for whom no other car will do, or classic car speculators. If it's bang for buck you're after, I'd look elsewhere. 160 BHP and 590 kgs do not stack up very well compared to even a mid-range car of today. 'Character' is the thing. But, of course, 'character' to one person can be archaic limitations to another. I've never driven one, or even ridden in one, but my guess would be that a BDR engined car will have the best ever exhaust note and a particular brand of engine charisma, which will delight some and underwhelm others. Probably depends what era you grew up in. I imagine if you grew up on v-tec engined Hondas then you'd go for one of the more modern engines. But ... if your first car was a mark 2 Escort and your hero was Ari Vatanen, then a BDR engined car could have serious appeal.
Ford Type 9 V6 5 speed from a Capri 2.8i or Sierra XR4i was standard gearbox.
How many 1700 HPCs are left? Anybody's guess. But if I were you I'd get on over to Blatchat, the chat page on lotus7.club, for further info about that.
As Rubystone has said, it's not inconceivable that some non-HPC BDR engined cars could be masquerading as real HPCs. The way to tell a real HPC is the chassis number will have the suffix 'HP', whereas the non-HPC BDR (1600 or 1700) will have the suffix 'BD'. HPC cars had rear anti-roll bars, slip diffs and individually adjustable seats, but these could easily be added later to non-HPC BDRs, so go on the chassis number suffix. A real HPC will defintely be worth more than a non-HPC BDR, but how much more I do not know.
All BDR engined Caterhams, HPCs and non-HPCs will eventually need engine rebuilds. It is well known to be unbelievably expensive to have done properly, and there may only be a handful, if that, of specialists left who can do a top job. This means that BDR engined cars are probably only finding their way into the hands of either very dedicated enthusiasts, for whom no other car will do, or classic car speculators. If it's bang for buck you're after, I'd look elsewhere. 160 BHP and 590 kgs do not stack up very well compared to even a mid-range car of today. 'Character' is the thing. But, of course, 'character' to one person can be archaic limitations to another. I've never driven one, or even ridden in one, but my guess would be that a BDR engined car will have the best ever exhaust note and a particular brand of engine charisma, which will delight some and underwhelm others. Probably depends what era you grew up in. I imagine if you grew up on v-tec engined Hondas then you'd go for one of the more modern engines. But ... if your first car was a mark 2 Escort and your hero was Ari Vatanen, then a BDR engined car could have serious appeal.
Ford Type 9 V6 5 speed from a Capri 2.8i or Sierra XR4i was standard gearbox.
You can (or could) buy the BDR head kit from Burton and fit it to your Crossflow, so it's not inconceivable that a BDR engined was car built up by an independent company or competent mechanic.
Still a desirable engine but a competition based engine really and may need very regular rebuilds. Id love one for my Mk2 Escort!
Still a desirable engine but a competition based engine really and may need very regular rebuilds. Id love one for my Mk2 Escort!
Edited by andy97 on Friday 15th September 09:08
Sorry, my point was that it is more than just a head kit as the article shows.
Be great to build one though!!
Be great to build one though!!
andy97 said:
That is true, early 90's for the 14" prisoner wheels. But it makes me wonder what wheels "KAR120C" (1966 SII) actually had?
Bert
Bert
rubystone said:
Btw I am pretty sure the Prisoner wheels weren't available in 1989 and I am sure the 'box is not original. The car doesn't sound like an un messed with BDR. The very best cars sell around the £20k mark.
Found this. About as good as you're gonna find anywhere. Nice car for someone. Wonder if it'll actually get driven! http://www.sevensandclassics.com/showroom/caterham...
Johnny5hoods said:
Found this. About as good as you're gonna find anywhere. Nice car for someone. Wonder if it'll actually get driven! http://www.sevensandclassics.com/showroom/caterham...
I know the car and I know the owner. I'm wondering why he's selling it? He tends to buy lovely cars and improve them.I tried to buy this car several years ago when it was stored between a couple of Lamborghinis but the price was too high then imho - £23k....so two or more years down the line this car is up for £30k! But it is a lovely car, granted!
Have a 1989 example - one of i think 149 built? (don't have paperwork to hand) - which i have owned for about 20 years which was converted to an alloy 2.0 BD very soon after delivery as the new owner was underwhelmed about the performance of the standard car. I have driven one with a standard 1700 bdr and there is no comparison whatsoever with a 2.0 bda/bdg. That said a 1700 bdr would make a nicer roadcar - i only use mine on track and this year have used it at Silverstone GP and Donington noisy days a couple of times. There are lots of myths re reliability on BD's - my full spec engine was rebuilt by Terry Hoyle years ago and was compression tested earlier this year and it is fine. Ironically using it enthusiastically seems to have done it a power of good. 8300 rpm howl from a BD sounds good. Have a quaife straight cut box and it's fine and been trouble free with spirited use.
The reality is that a 1700 BDR is very nice dohc cylinder head assembly on a kent block and has soft cams etc - and it won't have steel internals if i recall correctly. If you buy it and plan to track it - remove big wheels - fit 13" wheels - have 13" dymags on mine - makes a big difference. If you are buying to flip - Japanese understand them and they have a big following out there.
The reality is that a 1700 BDR is very nice dohc cylinder head assembly on a kent block and has soft cams etc - and it won't have steel internals if i recall correctly. If you buy it and plan to track it - remove big wheels - fit 13" wheels - have 13" dymags on mine - makes a big difference. If you are buying to flip - Japanese understand them and they have a big following out there.
Thanks Rubystone, I'll try my best.
I sold mine a couple of years ago and struggled to get £18k for it, so £29k is ludicrous. Mine was top spec, great condition and a proper 1700 BDR HPC. Not all BDR;s were HPC's mind and the difference was IIRC, LSD, Dry sump, oil cooler, rear anti roll bar, 5 speed and de dion.
All 1700 BDR's had gold cam covers with Ford cast on them. Those engines were built by Langford and Peck and most used the thicker AX blocks. Chassis number will have an H in it.
They're a nice characterful car but feel very dated these days. Nothing wrong with that but just be aware that they are not as sharp or fast as a modern 7. Engine work is expensive! Cylinder heads are well over £10k alone, so don't break one. Interestingly, one was registered in 1989 and had Prisoner wheels from new on it.
I loved mine but wanted to do some track days again and got too precious about the BDR going bang.
Feel free to drop me a line if you want help looking at one.
Cheers
Mike
I sold mine a couple of years ago and struggled to get £18k for it, so £29k is ludicrous. Mine was top spec, great condition and a proper 1700 BDR HPC. Not all BDR;s were HPC's mind and the difference was IIRC, LSD, Dry sump, oil cooler, rear anti roll bar, 5 speed and de dion.
All 1700 BDR's had gold cam covers with Ford cast on them. Those engines were built by Langford and Peck and most used the thicker AX blocks. Chassis number will have an H in it.
They're a nice characterful car but feel very dated these days. Nothing wrong with that but just be aware that they are not as sharp or fast as a modern 7. Engine work is expensive! Cylinder heads are well over £10k alone, so don't break one. Interestingly, one was registered in 1989 and had Prisoner wheels from new on it.
I loved mine but wanted to do some track days again and got too precious about the BDR going bang.
Feel free to drop me a line if you want help looking at one.
Cheers
Mike
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