Are young people been conditioned for life long rip off in..
Discussion
CraigyMc said:
bad company said:
j4ck100 said:
This man gets it. I work in the data field, and I can tell you that as of now, approximately 6 major UK car insurers are using your postcode level internet shopping data to assist in working out your pricing. You have no idea the amount of data that goes in to calculating a premium now a days.
How do insurers access internet shopping data?bad company said:
CraigyMc said:
bad company said:
j4ck100 said:
This man gets it. I work in the data field, and I can tell you that as of now, approximately 6 major UK car insurers are using your postcode level internet shopping data to assist in working out your pricing. You have no idea the amount of data that goes in to calculating a premium now a days.
How do insurers access internet shopping data?
Excellent joke.
Benjijames28 said:
Right bit of a rant here.
I am nearly 30 years old, I've had my license 5 years, I have a clean record in every sense with 5 years no claims bonus. I live in a decent post code, I hold a steady job, and I only do 6k a year mileage.
Yet my insurance renewal for a 2 litre diesel 5 series is 1600, and the cheapest cover from a respectable company I can find is 1033 pounds.
I've tried brokers, I've tried comparison sites, I have even fine direct.
This means my past 5 years insurance prices have been as follows:
1. Renault Clio 1.2 - 1500
2. Renault Clio 1.2 - 1000
3. Ford fiesta 1.2 - 800
4. Ford fiesta 1.2 - 700
5. Audi A3 1.8 tfsi - 1000
6. BMW 520d m sport - 1000
Now I was expecting a drop in my insurance prices this year, after all I've been driving a while now and have never had points, and never had to use my insurance (touch wood).
I know prices in general have gone up, but when you hear about older people with points and claims on their record paying a few hundred quid a year, it's just sickening.
I think my generation is been conditioned to pay much higher prices than previous generations.
And there's nothing we can do about it.
I've even looked at what it would cost me to insure a low insurance group car (dacia sandero 1.2 active), even that is coming out at 500 quid.
So am I right or am I wrong?
No point the older patronising driving god / powerfully built directors will be along in a minute to tell me I'm a higher risk than they are, even if they have points or claims to their name. Bring it on driving gods, bring it on.
I was paying £650 in 1992 for a 1.3 VW Jetta when i was 22I am nearly 30 years old, I've had my license 5 years, I have a clean record in every sense with 5 years no claims bonus. I live in a decent post code, I hold a steady job, and I only do 6k a year mileage.
Yet my insurance renewal for a 2 litre diesel 5 series is 1600, and the cheapest cover from a respectable company I can find is 1033 pounds.
I've tried brokers, I've tried comparison sites, I have even fine direct.
This means my past 5 years insurance prices have been as follows:
1. Renault Clio 1.2 - 1500
2. Renault Clio 1.2 - 1000
3. Ford fiesta 1.2 - 800
4. Ford fiesta 1.2 - 700
5. Audi A3 1.8 tfsi - 1000
6. BMW 520d m sport - 1000
Now I was expecting a drop in my insurance prices this year, after all I've been driving a while now and have never had points, and never had to use my insurance (touch wood).
I know prices in general have gone up, but when you hear about older people with points and claims on their record paying a few hundred quid a year, it's just sickening.
I think my generation is been conditioned to pay much higher prices than previous generations.
And there's nothing we can do about it.
I've even looked at what it would cost me to insure a low insurance group car (dacia sandero 1.2 active), even that is coming out at 500 quid.
So am I right or am I wrong?
No point the older patronising driving god / powerfully built directors will be along in a minute to tell me I'm a higher risk than they are, even if they have points or claims to their name. Bring it on driving gods, bring it on.
I don't think that it is much the insurance companies ripping us off as much as the insurance companies being ripped off by all the hangers-on and just pass the costs onto us. Sort that lot out and watch premiums come down, but it will probably take a Royal Commission, so don't hold your breath 
Young and inexperienced drivers have always had to pay more for insurance, stastically they are a higher risk, and that is an unfortunate fact of life. Where they are really being ripped off is being hoodwinked into believing that they really need a brand new premium car and ending up paying through the nose for it on a PCP, then rinse and repeat every three years ad infinitum..
Young and inexperienced drivers have always had to pay more for insurance, stastically they are a higher risk, and that is an unfortunate fact of life. Where they are really being ripped off is being hoodwinked into believing that they really need a brand new premium car and ending up paying through the nose for it on a PCP, then rinse and repeat every three years ad infinitum..
Edited by Justin Case on Wednesday 20th September 15:27
Postcode makes a massive difference. I moved from an F* to a B (according to that list) back in 2003. My car insurance halved and my motorcycle insurance dropped by 2/3! Even after the rip off admin charges levied for amending the policies mid-term, I still got money back.
Now 42 with 12 yrs NCB, no points,and one small non fault accident on file. Paying £390 a year to insure my M140i, with 10k of business miles. Out of interest, I got a quote for identical cover at my old postcode and the cheapest quote was £998. Most were between £1100 and £1200.
Realistically, I'd give my M140i a week tops being parked outside my old flat every night before some bored chav vandalised or nicked it. Crap area.
Now 42 with 12 yrs NCB, no points,and one small non fault accident on file. Paying £390 a year to insure my M140i, with 10k of business miles. Out of interest, I got a quote for identical cover at my old postcode and the cheapest quote was £998. Most were between £1100 and £1200.
Realistically, I'd give my M140i a week tops being parked outside my old flat every night before some bored chav vandalised or nicked it. Crap area.
CraigyMc said:
bad company said:
CraigyMc said:
bad company said:
j4ck100 said:
This man gets it. I work in the data field, and I can tell you that as of now, approximately 6 major UK car insurers are using your postcode level internet shopping data to assist in working out your pricing. You have no idea the amount of data that goes in to calculating a premium now a days.
How do insurers access internet shopping data?Excellent joke.
Do you really know what you're saying?
bad company said:
You can say that. Infringing the data protection act is a criminal offence. Large companies won't take the risk.
Do you really know what you're saying?
I'd imagine he does... The data they will be providing won't have specific peoples information in there, it will be anonymised aggregated data (ie you can't follow any of it back to a specific person) which is then perfectly legal to sell on without the data contributors permissions etc.Do you really know what you're saying?
Also, insurance in general seems on the up. My Insurance on my Noble and my S2000 both went up about 20% this year compared to last with no change in circumstances, no vehicle crime in the local area etc.
Benjijames28 said:
culpz said:
Something doesn't sound right there. That's not me saying that you're lying but there must be a reason for it.
I'm 25, 2 years NCB, 1 fault accident about 3 years ago, M postcode (one of the worst), driving for 7 years, 8k per annum, employed full-time, £900 on an Audi A4.
Is there anyone else on your insurance policy or just you? I've always insured my dad on mine as a second driver for occasional use and it's always made the premium significantly cheaper.
I've put a family member on the policy which reduced it down by about 75 quid.I'm 25, 2 years NCB, 1 fault accident about 3 years ago, M postcode (one of the worst), driving for 7 years, 8k per annum, employed full-time, £900 on an Audi A4.
Is there anyone else on your insurance policy or just you? I've always insured my dad on mine as a second driver for occasional use and it's always made the premium significantly cheaper.
Edited by culpz on Wednesday 20th September 08:26
Trust me there's nothing bad increasing my risk.
28yrs old, 5 years since I passed my test, 5 years no claims, no points.
It just doesn't make sense to me.
The general consensus is that once you're past 25, it should drop a fair bit. However, that can be nonsense as i believe that the assumption is that you've been driving since 17/18 with full NCB up until that point with little/no points and little/no accidents. AS we know, that's not always the case.
GhostWKD said:
I'd imagine he does... The data they will be providing won't have specific peoples information in there, it will be anonymised aggregated data (ie you can't follow any of it back to a specific person) which is then perfectly legal to sell on without the data contributors permissions etc.
Also, insurance in general seems on the up. My Insurance on my Noble and my S2000 both went up about 20% this year compared to last with no change in circumstances, no vehicle crime in the local area etc.
That sounds about right.Also, insurance in general seems on the up. My Insurance on my Noble and my S2000 both went up about 20% this year compared to last with no change in circumstances, no vehicle crime in the local area etc.
I don't see how aggregated data can be used for an individual insurance quote tho.
Not going to play the numbers postcode game but simply recall all those years ago when first started insuring my own cars.
21 straight out of uni, good record but no NCD obviously. "Oh it's expensive as you have no NCD"
Couple years later, well wait until you're 25, bla bla bla.
Now 25, ah well they now seem to reduce at 28 bla bla bla.
Now 28, yep wait till 30.
Now 30, with wife, mortgage etc, just accepted it was a rip off, partly fuelled by t
ts who cannot drive properly.
Now 30-mumble years later than that and nowt much has changed.
Though the dog is more expensive to insure, make of that what you will.
21 straight out of uni, good record but no NCD obviously. "Oh it's expensive as you have no NCD"
Couple years later, well wait until you're 25, bla bla bla.
Now 25, ah well they now seem to reduce at 28 bla bla bla.
Now 28, yep wait till 30.
Now 30, with wife, mortgage etc, just accepted it was a rip off, partly fuelled by t
ts who cannot drive properly.Now 30-mumble years later than that and nowt much has changed.
Though the dog is more expensive to insure, make of that what you will.
Justin Case said:
I don't think that it is much the insurance companies ripping us off as much as the insurance companies being ripped off by all the hangers-on and just pass the costs onto us. Sort that lot out and watch premiums come down, but it will probably take a Royal Commission, so don't hold your breath
Young and inexperienced drivers have always had to pay more for insurance, stastically they are a higher risk, and that is an unfortunate fact of life. Where they are really being ripped off is being hoodwinked into believing that they really need a brand new premium car and ending up paying through the nose for it on a PCP, then rinse and repeat every three years ad infinitum..
The issue is sadly, the people with the most power to change it are the ones least affected. I have noticed that they are surprisingly vacant in this thread but every time the issue of young(er) people and people of reasonable means and their insurance costs crop up you normally get 2 or 3 PHers chiming up, claiming that their Porsche and Aston Martin registered to there stately home in the countryside are insured for £100 a year, therefore the industry is a massive steal for the services offered. Like it or not, these people are the types who will be listened too by the powers that be, and as the issue of cost does not seem to affect them in the slightest as a consequence of the insurance industries risk assessment profiles. Young and inexperienced drivers have always had to pay more for insurance, stastically they are a higher risk, and that is an unfortunate fact of life. Where they are really being ripped off is being hoodwinked into believing that they really need a brand new premium car and ending up paying through the nose for it on a PCP, then rinse and repeat every three years ad infinitum..
Edited by Justin Case on Wednesday 20th September 15:27
Flip the issue on it's head with 18 year olds in £500 Nissan Micra's paying £100 a year and 40 somethings in £80k Porsches paying £5k a year and the issue of inefficiencies would be sorted overnight.... or at least weighted back against those with less clout to complain. There is no incentive for our legislators to focus on the issues as the young and/or poor don't tend to vote in the same numbers that the elderly middle/upper class do, and there is no incentive for industry to attempt to rectify the issue as business leaders tend to be the few with low risk profiles.
I also agree with your point about the new car issue, partly powered by the myth that buying a new car is 'cleaner' for the environment than simply keeping a banger on the road, which in my eyes is a badly covered up economic stimulus for the automotive industry. Although I will also say that I don't think the young PCP crowd is as big as the PH massive seem to thing it is, particularly in poorer parts of the country, take one look at a college car park in Glasgow or Manchester and the typical car is most definetly the 10-15 year old, <£2000 commuter hatch types, with the 17 plate Corsa "Special Editions" being very much the minority, in my personal experience the latter minority tend to be the bank of mum&dad types.
Edited by caelite on Wednesday 20th September 16:04
kambites said:
DonkeyApple said:
When I was 30 I drove a 540 and lived in a descent post code. My quotes to insure it ranged from £2k to £6k.
I remember asking why it was so ludicrously high and being told it was because the post code next door was NW6 and it was riddled with people who liked stealing or vandalising 5 series BMWs.
That's the thing though isn't it,you did not live in a good postcode (from an insurance point of view) because part of the definition of a good post code is not being next to a crap post code. Whilst there clear is a correlation between the affluence of an area and its insurance risk, they are far from directly proportional. I remember asking why it was so ludicrously high and being told it was because the post code next door was NW6 and it was riddled with people who liked stealing or vandalising 5 series BMWs.
Benjijames28 said:
I've looked and its actually cheaper for me to insure a 535i manual 2010 model. Then it is for me to insure my 2 litre diesel.
Work that one out.
I have. The answer is to ditch the 4 pot diesel and buy a 6 pot petrol. It shouldn't need the insurance industry to tell you to do the right thing. Work that one out.
CraigyMc said:
bad company said:
CraigyMc said:
bad company said:
j4ck100 said:
This man gets it. I work in the data field, and I can tell you that as of now, approximately 6 major UK car insurers are using your postcode level internet shopping data to assist in working out your pricing. You have no idea the amount of data that goes in to calculating a premium now a days.
How do insurers access internet shopping data?Excellent joke.
I've often found an answer to cheaper insurance is to modify the car. Initially just a cheap and easily reversible modification.
For example as a 3rd car I got a convertible three years ago, and insurance costs where approx. £250 fully comp (already had 3 years NCB on this policy) for 5k miles a year.
For the last two years when it's come to renewal I try the four big search engines plus Flux. Best I got this year for a standard car was £235. If I repeat the search with all the same info but change to modified and include air induction kit the prices drop, same insurer at 235 was now £190. Other quotes dropped as well.
The K&N kit cost me £59 delivered, 25 mins to fit, and saved me on insurance, and has done for the last two years, more than made it's money back. If it ever becomes more expensive will swap back to standard in 25 mins
Again, no idea why this happens, down to data and not logic as suggested above, but you just have to try and play the variables, honestly, and see what works for you.
For example as a 3rd car I got a convertible three years ago, and insurance costs where approx. £250 fully comp (already had 3 years NCB on this policy) for 5k miles a year.
For the last two years when it's come to renewal I try the four big search engines plus Flux. Best I got this year for a standard car was £235. If I repeat the search with all the same info but change to modified and include air induction kit the prices drop, same insurer at 235 was now £190. Other quotes dropped as well.
The K&N kit cost me £59 delivered, 25 mins to fit, and saved me on insurance, and has done for the last two years, more than made it's money back. If it ever becomes more expensive will swap back to standard in 25 mins
Again, no idea why this happens, down to data and not logic as suggested above, but you just have to try and play the variables, honestly, and see what works for you.
Car insurance firms seem to make it up as they go along.
My insurance on a 640d GC from new (2014) to this year went up about c£100/yr, with no increase in risk, but 2 claims dropping off. It ended up at £650 for a 3.5yr old car with £25k.
Enter new car. Worth 2.5 times as much, 500bhp twin turbo, far more of a theft risk and lots of expensive carbon fibre body panels.
Annual premium £320.
My insurance on a 640d GC from new (2014) to this year went up about c£100/yr, with no increase in risk, but 2 claims dropping off. It ended up at £650 for a 3.5yr old car with £25k.
Enter new car. Worth 2.5 times as much, 500bhp twin turbo, far more of a theft risk and lots of expensive carbon fibre body panels.
Annual premium £320.
red_slr said:
There are some odd balls though, my RS6 was cheaper to insure than a Mini Cooper.
Considering any Audi RS seems to last about 15 minutes on anyone's driveway I am quite surprised at that. For the poster that said it was personal injury claims on the up, I would vehemently disagree. In addition, the insurance industry has won a huge victory in the past 5 years in gaining legislation severely limiting legal costs in personal injury cases, so much so that its not worth doing this area of work any more. The savings to the insurance industry will be significant.
The credit hire industry is still milking vast amounts from insurers' pockets. Every 20 year old knackered Beemer immediately being replaced with a £35k brand new 320 diesel at £400 a day for a month....
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