RE: PH Footnote: The Ineos Grenadier

[anonymous-user]

Ambitious when the Defender had dropped to under 1,000 units in 2012/13 and peaked at 9,000.

2016   182
2015   1,237
2014   1,147
2013   810
2012   971
2011   1,443
2010   4,117
2009   5,604
2008   8,089
2007   8,137
2006   8,663
2005   8,584
2004   9,006
2003   8,276
2002   7,446
2001   5,326
2000   7,350
1999   6,596
1998   5,428
1997   4,850

[Jack_and_MLE]

I never understood why the Land Rover is /was an icon.

I've spend 6 month in Africa (Guinea) and everyone hated the Land Rover J70because it was so unreliable.
They where very quickly replaced by Toyota LandCruiser.
The LandCruiser we had had a hose-down interior.
And Yes the Toyota was very easily reparable by the local mechanic with rudimentary tools.

What is the point of a vehicle which is design to drive anywhere and then breakdown at a moment notice?

As a toy it may make sense, but as a tools as it was created for as use full as a chocolate teapot.

Jack

[kbf1981]

I'd buy one.

Sounds like the perfect car. If it has the off road ability of a Defender and the build of a Landcruiser 70 series with a strong engine and extremely rugged, I'll buy one.

7 seats, big engine, proper ladder chassis, good wading depth and off road ability, at 35k I'm in.

If they sold it now I'd buy tomorrow.

[Stick Legs]

Jack_and_MLE said:

I never understood why the Land Rover is /was an icon.

I've spend 6 month in Africa (Guinea) and everyone hated the Land Rover J70because it was so unreliable.
They where very quickly replaced by Toyota LandCruiser.
The LandCruiser we had had a hose-down interior.
And Yes the Toyota was very easily reparable by the local mechanic with rudimentary tools.

What is the point of a vehicle which is design to drive anywhere and then breakdown at a moment notice?

As a toy it may make sense, but as a tools as it was created for as use full as a chocolate teapot.

Jack

This^^^

Everyone I know who works in Farming or Forestry uses Japanese pick ups. The big sell of the LandRover in the old days was the relatively high towing weight but now tractors are so good on the road that has lost it's appeal.
LandRovers are considered to be expensive to run & un-reliable.

[anonymous-user]

kbf1981 said:

I'd buy one.


7 seats, big engine, proper ladder chassis, good wading depth and off road ability, at 35k I'm in.

How much was a decent spec defender? Now, consider that all the tooling had been paid off about 35 years ago.

So, you're got to completely re-tool, set up a production line, building, by hand, a low number of vehicles. £35k? no chance, sorry.......

There is also the issue that a 'new' defender cant' carry over the old cars homologation, hence either it'll have to meet all the requirements for volume build (Full Type Approval, which is very onerous, and not necessarily even possible with a defender shaped vehicle these days (pedestrian impact for example). Or, it'll have to be low volume approval, which is expensive, time consuming, and limits production volumes.

I can't see this ever working tbh.

[Billy_Whizzzz]

robemcdonald said:

So Nigel Farages' older, cooler, brother is considering making making a £70k defender replica

and sounds equally like a hare brained, uneducated, ignorant and pea brained little englander spouting bullst without any understanding of anything. No thanks.

[Uncle Ron]

milesr3 said:

Ambitious when the Defender had dropped to under 1,000 units in 2012/13 and peaked at 9,000.

This here is the issue - which 25,000 people are going to want one of these every year? Insane numbers. Take the last 0 off and it'd be ambitious, this is just really quite silly!

[BiggestVern]

I hope it's going to be easier to get in to than the pub it's named after. Like a sardine tin most of the time.

In truth, a fantasy. As already stated in plenty of other replies, unlikely it will ever happen.

[Richard A]

I'd wondered in the past whether the spiritual successor of the 'Defender' (ugh!) would be something like a smaller version of the 405-series Unimog with equivalent funky modern, semi-cabover, deep screen looks and the ability to carry and operate various equipment. Consequently the hook-up with MBtech sounds interesting. Although MBtech might not have any direct relationship with the Unimog, no doubt the potential would be there.

The now predominant 'lifestyle' aspect of 4x4s grew out of a perception of their functional capability. Maybe that aspect could do with a reboot to tap back into real rather than 'marketing department' ruggedness.

I remember working on balecarts in my summer holidays and spending a few days on a sort of hobby farm whose wealthy owner had a bit of a thing for the latest gadgets. He had some kind of back to front Deutz tractor and a Unimog 406-series (smaller than and earlier than the 405) and I thought it was a mighty impressive piece of kit.

[oldtimer2]

The original market needs served by Land Rovers have, for the most part, been replaced by cheaper substitute products such as pick up trucks. I doubt that it could profitably be built in the UK - it looks as though JLR will build the Defender replacement in Slovakia where labour costs are lower. It will be a formidable challenge to create a successful business model. The focus of the Land Rover product range and the markets they have aimed at have changed over the years for a reason. They followed the money - markets with cash and credit.

[StephenGalley]

Billy_Whizzzz said:

robemcdonald said:

So Nigel Farages' older, cooler, brother is considering making making a £70k defender replica

and sounds equally like a hare brained, uneducated, ignorant and pea brained little englander spouting bullst without any understanding of anything. No thanks.

You sound like a politically correct tt.

[100SRV]

Jack_and_MLE said:

I never understood why the Land Rover is /was an icon.

I've spend 6 month in Africa (Guinea) and everyone hated the Land Rover J70because it was so unreliable.
They where very quickly replaced by Toyota LandCruiser.
The LandCruiser we had had a hose-down interior.
And Yes the Toyota was very easily reparable by the local mechanic with rudimentary tools.

What is the point of a vehicle which is design to drive anywhere and then breakdown at a moment notice?

As a toy it may make sense, but as a tools as it was created for as use full as a chocolate teapot.

Jack

Toyota developed a product more suited to mass production and they had a credible quality control system.

My 1996 Defender broke down the other day, on the same day I saw two different current model VW Golfs on the hard shoulder of the motorway, bonnet up.

From about 1972 onwards it was trading on past glory. The only radical thing they did was introduce Range Rover. Series 3 should have been what Ninety / One-Ten became eleven years hence.

Complacency started the ship sinking and BL finally killed it.

[Danez]

Billy_Whizzzz said:

and sounds equally like a hare brained, uneducated, ignorant and pea brained little englander spouting bullst without any understanding of anything. No thanks.

What've you got against 'englanders'?

Edited by Danez on Thursday 15th February 02:25

[jhonn]

Quote "..200 engineers... aiming to ensure that the Grenadier is a "truly rugged, reliable and uncompromising 4x4."

Sounds like they're serious about the development; thing is - is there really a market of any size for an uncompromising off-roader?

[anonymous-user]

jhonn said:

Quote "..200 engineers... aiming to ensure that the Grenadier is a "truly rugged, reliable and uncompromising 4x4."

Sounds like they're serious about the development; thing is - is there really a market of any size for an uncompromising off-roader?

with just 200 engineers it'll have to steal the powertrain out of an existing car, and the electrics, suspension, exhaust aftertreatment, interior, infotainment, HVAC, lights, wipers, occupant restraint systems and about 3,000 other parts.

(JLR has 200 engineers just doing their stupid spinney air vents and the rise-up 'knobulator' gimmicks)

[paulyv]

Nowhere in this article does it state this vehicle would cost 70k.

"the product they're talking about is a decidedly niche-market prospect for (one would suspect) the type of buyer currently happy to pay upwards of £70k for a nearly new example of the last Defender - or more for a Twisted or Kahn Design version."

[AER]

Max_Torque said:

(JLR has 200 engineers just doing their stupid spinney air vents and the rise-up 'knobulator' gimmicks)

I take it you approve of these features...?

[Jellinek]

My initial thought was that this chap is looking at defence contracts. With the Defender evolving into a style oriented vehicle and the Army’s LR (Wolf?) running on borrowed time, he might be able to squeeze enough cash from the MOD to pay for a large chunk of the project. I suspect there is a relatively sound business case behind it. Could be wrong however.

[yellowstreak]

Jellinek said:

My initial thought was that this chap is looking at defence contracts. With the Defender evolving into a style oriented vehicle and the Army’s LR (Wolf?) running on borrowed time, he might be able to squeeze enough cash from the MOD to pay for a large chunk of the project. I suspect there is a relatively sound business case behind it. Could be wrong however.

I personally think (and hope) any replacement for the 110 wolf will be a larger, more expensive vehicle capable of being armoured and with a much larger capacity for kit. Not something that would be suitable for civilian use. Have a look at what is replacing HMMWV in the US - its a monster. The MOD has no money so if the British army needs a light offroad vehicle in the UK it will be the 110 wolf or a rental pick up for a long time to come. Any soldier who has a choice takes the Japanese pick up!

[slacker172]

I the Defender is so good, when he is talking about it, why does it show a Mitsubishi in the film wading through puddles instead of the shiny orange one posh bloke is driving to the pub (Or Buckingham palace apparently!)..........Doesn't seem to make sense?