Premium Brands - Have Others Caught Up?

Premium Brands - Have Others Caught Up?

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redguy

Original Poster:

132 posts

78 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
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First time poster, long-time lurker, so hi all!

I just wanted to post my thoughts. As a long-term BMW owner (had a couple of E21's, 2 E36's and 2 E90's), I stopped by my local dealership on Sunday to see what's about. I don't buy in that price range, but thought it would be good to sit in some of the newer designs as I'm looking to change next year.

What struck me - alarmingly so - was how ordinary they all felt inside. Most of these were 40k+, but they didn't feel in the least like that.

Maybe it's me - but before, when I sat in certain cars, and then bought an (even a good deal older) BMW, it just felt different, a bit more of an experience. The newer ones just didn't have it for me. The steering wheels in some felt pretty similar to my friends new Corsa SRI, with the plastic silver trim!

That mixed the reliability on certain models is making any change harder - but I'll ask that another time!

I just have the overall impression that either a) the brand isn't what it was, or b) other manufacturers have caught up, so why pay the premium?

MitchT

15,788 posts

208 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
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A few times I've been in a decent size Honda saloon and though it felt better screwed together than any of the BMWs I've been in.

Steviesam

1,242 posts

133 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
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Premium brands have lowered their levels to the run of the mill stuff.

Couldn't believe how cheap and crappy a 3 series was when I went in one.

Might as well have been anything.

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
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In terms of quality of touch surfaces and NVH (as opposed than actual engineering quality) I think the "semi-premium" brands such as BMW and Audi still have a slight edge over the main mainstream (if that makes sense) cars in their sectors. In terms of actual engineering integrity I think the German companies have fallen well behind the Japanese now and arguably behind the Koreans as well.

I certainly wouldn't buy anything German on the basis of reliability, but generally they're still amongst the most pleasant cars to drive.

Deerfoot

4,897 posts

183 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
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MitchT said:
A few times I've been in a decent size Honda saloon and though it felt better screwed together than any of the BMWs I've been in.
I bought my old Accord after trying a 3 series, C Class and A4, the Honda interior was absolutely solid and was still free of rattles and squeaks when it went with 100,000 miles on it.

The 40,000 mile 3 series just didn`t appear to be as well assembled inside, the A4 and C Class were better than the BMW.

My present Volvo is wearing well....

GR_TVR

712 posts

83 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
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I do think Audi and Mercedes (particularly Audi's new models) are winning the interior game at the moment - they feel a cut above BMW in that department and definitely have that premium feel.

Agent XXX

1,248 posts

105 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
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BMW isn't a premium brand anymore.

Premium marketing maybe, but in truth they are no better than pretty much anything else.

MitchT

15,788 posts

208 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
quotequote all
Deerfoot said:
MitchT said:
A few times I've been in a decent size Honda saloon and though it felt better screwed together than any of the BMWs I've been in.
I bought my old Accord after trying a 3 series, C Class and A4, the Honda interior was absolutely solid and was still free of rattles and squeaks when it went with 100,000 miles on it.

The 40,000 mile 3 series just didn`t appear to be as well assembled inside, the A4 and C Class were better than the BMW.

My present Volvo is wearing well....
I've always loved BMWs overall - the handling, styling, etc., and I'll always have one in some shape or form, but even starship mile Honda taxis feel relaxing to be in like waking up on Monday morning and then realising it's a bank holiday!

hondansx

4,562 posts

224 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
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I was in a mate's M140i and thought the leather was really nice and the interior, in general was a pleasant place to be.

Only in the latest models have Mercedes got their act together; up to a couple of years ago the interiors were absolutely horrible and felt really cheap.

Audi lead the way for me, but I agree, from an engineering and reliability perspective, being German means nothing today.

neil1jnr

1,460 posts

154 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
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I'd say so, especially on interiors. The interiors of every newish car I've been in over the last few years is pretty good. Maybe it's because it's an aspect of the car I really don't care about but I really don't see the German marques as any better than the Japs or Ford for example. My friends old XF (2014) had an interior that I thought was a cut above the rest though.

The only reason I'd go for a 'premium' brand over other brands is the engine choices in their range of cars (335d engine and the German and Jaguar's 3 litre diesels).

Ares

11,000 posts

119 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
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Agent XXX said:
BMW isn't a premium brand anymore.

Premium marketing maybe, but in truth they are no better than pretty much anything else.
It took you over 20mins to get in a bh about BMW. We were worried you'd died.



Back to the point. Go sit in a VW or Alfa or Honda... then into an Audi, Merc, BMW. They are still a level ahead both in materials and ergonomics. And I say that as someone that has just bought an Alfa having owned BMWs for 10yrs+!

nickfrog

20,871 posts

216 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
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Agent XXX said:
BMW isn't a premium brand anymore.

Premium marketing maybe, but in truth they are no better than pretty much anything else.
As Ares said, there are certain areas of current BMWs where there is something a lot better than pretty much anything else ; the following spring to mine:

- ergonomics, and seats in particular. They still insist on full swivel seats and I can't think of many "premium" manufacturers doing that.
- offering 6-pot engine and RWD in a small hatchback.
- offering 4-pot front brakes on a small hatchback either as on option or as standard.
- insisting on putting most engines (or most of the engine!) behind the front axle, even at the detriment of interior space.

Those things are massively under-marketed so I'll have to disagree with your view.

Most touch points are still not really compromised ; boot carpets on the other hand have become somewhat thin, a small price to pay for me.



Deerfoot

4,897 posts

183 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
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nickfrog said:
As Ares said, there are certain areas of current BMWs where there is something a lot better than pretty much anything else...

- ergonomics, and seats in particular.
Do they still have levers for seat back adjustment? I found that it was nigh on impossible to get a comfortable angle of the back rest as I had to compromise on position, why the 3 series I tried didn't have a rotary knob like most manufacturers I don't know.

Trif

746 posts

172 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
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I have yet to manage to get in and out of a BMW dealership wanting to buy a car. The cars are a bit meh inside and drive the same, the sales staff annoy me and the service representatives are incapable of providing a decent service.

For interiors, I really like the new Volvos and they are full of tech that will make driving much more pleasant as standard.

Ares

11,000 posts

119 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
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Trif said:
I have yet to manage to get in and out of a BMW dealership wanting to buy a car. The cars are a bit meh inside and drive the same, the sales staff annoy me and the service representatives are incapable of providing a decent service.

For interiors, I really like the new Volvos and they are full of tech that will make driving much more pleasant as standard.
Thats Volvos calling card. Plush interiors and loads of tech....not the actual drive. BMW are the opposite end of the drive spectrum, as, increasingly, are Mercedes.

Sheepshanks

32,527 posts

118 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
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Agent XXX said:
BMW isn't a premium brand anymore.

Premium marketing maybe, but in truth they are no better than pretty much anything else.
Even years ago, our German colleagues wanted Passats rather than 3 Series.

Ares

11,000 posts

119 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
quotequote all
Deerfoot said:
nickfrog said:
As Ares said, there are certain areas of current BMWs where there is something a lot better than pretty much anything else...

- ergonomics, and seats in particular.
Do they still have levers for seat back adjustment? I found that it was nigh on impossible to get a comfortable angle of the back rest as I had to compromise on position, why the 3 series I tried didn't have a rotary knob like most manufacturers I don't know.
My last three were electric, as increasingly is much of the range.

I never had an issue with lever control though? Lift, move to position, release. The dial was a lot more guess work as the seat back couldn't be moved whilst leaning against it?

Ninja59

3,691 posts

111 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
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It depends where you look though.

Price - You mention £40k plus. Focusing on BMW who really pays full list price for a BMW? (I can barely think of anyone), added to that and the main reason the Germans still win is leasing costs.We are looking for a potential car for my OH once she passes her test, but stupidly in some cases for a similar style car the Germans still work out cheaper.

As for look and feel hmm questionable at times, more so if you focus on for example leather quality where Mercedes insist in many cases of splashing fake leather vinyl around like fairy dust...

Tech - I still do not think some companies have fully resolved certain technical elements to be reliable and easy to use. I also hate the level of reliance many have put in touch screens now. I think for me the Germans have managed to pretty much within reason come up with systems that are quick and easy to use without significant levels of distraction - that is before we talk about some manufacturers moving all functions to a touch screen (Volvo and Tesla in particular).

Daaaveee

909 posts

222 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
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I think you have to look at 5 series and above with BMWs before you get the better quality interiors. Having said that, I'm still not a fan out the screen sticking out of the dashboard on the G30 compared to F10.

Deerfoot

4,897 posts

183 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
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Ares said:
I never had an issue with lever control though? Lift, move to position, release.
Which is fine if the position dictated by the notch in the mechanism is suitable, for me it wasn't, the back rest was either a bit too far forward or a bit too far aft (admittedly only by a small amount but enough for me to notice it wasn't ideal).

Ares said:
The dial was a lot more guess work as the seat back couldn't be moved whilst leaning against it?
Lean forward, adjust knob, lean back and assess, repeat until satisfactory...