Premium Brands - Have Others Caught Up?
Discussion
daemon said:
AH33 said:
daemon said:
Premium doesnt mean restricted availability.
No but you'd expect to see fewer "premium" products than "run of the mill" ones. There's nothing impressive or special about a 1 series.AH33 said:
daemon said:
Is Apple not a premium product then?
Only in the sense that you pay over the odds for your sweatshop assembled POSBeing a popular product does not preclude it from being a premium one.
I just had a quick look around on google there on views on whether Apple was a premium product and found this
"Apple is a luxury brand, not a tech company. ... The latest CoolBrands survey in Britain—compiled by a panel of 27 experts and 2,000 consumers—ranks Apple as the No. 1 brand. It's followed by more traditional luxury brands, with Aston Martin ranking second and Rolex ranking third."
"Apple is a luxury brand, not a tech company. ... The latest CoolBrands survey in Britain—compiled by a panel of 27 experts and 2,000 consumers—ranks Apple as the No. 1 brand. It's followed by more traditional luxury brands, with Aston Martin ranking second and Rolex ranking third."
jhonn said:
Sheepshanks said:
Apparently Vignale is 13% of Mondeo sales - I'm amazed by that.
Me too! - maybe the consumer is smartening up and it's a bit of a backlash against the ubiquity of the default Audi/BMW drone.daemon said:
Whilst i take your point (i am not an apple fanboi and have no apple devices), the actual product itself is a premium product.
Being a popular product does not preclude it from being a premium one.
It's certainly perceived as a premium product and I appreciated that perception is reality and all that stuff but it's only premium in the abstract sense of the word. A Rolls Royce Phantom is a premium product, demonstrably through its materials, construction, assembly and exclusivity. An iPhone is a premium product because of it's price and only its price.Being a popular product does not preclude it from being a premium one.
Rawwr said:
It's certainly perceived as a premium product and I appreciated that perception is reality and all that stuff but it's only premium in the abstract sense of the word. A Rolls Royce Phantom is a premium product, demonstrably through its materials, construction, assembly and exclusivity. An iPhone is a premium product because of it's price and only its price.
Perhaps an example of other manufacturers closing the gap. The design / build was better than Samsung etc maybe 7 / 8 years ago but that is no longer the case. Apple are an interesting case I think as they have become to big to make brave decisions and be innovative - and therefore can no longer do what helped them become so big...perhaps in some way this is related to BMW no longer being the ultimate driving machines and JLR no longer making a "proper" off roader.... it's the cost of growth?But I guess if the RR is your premium benchmark then no BMW / Merc / Audi etc are either. That then becomes a discussion of how premium a product is instead of if it is or not.
Rawwr said:
daemon said:
Whilst i take your point (i am not an apple fanboi and have no apple devices), the actual product itself is a premium product.
Being a popular product does not preclude it from being a premium one.
It's certainly perceived as a premium product and I appreciated that perception is reality and all that stuff but it's only premium in the abstract sense of the word. A Rolls Royce Phantom is a premium product, demonstrably through its materials, construction, assembly and exclusivity. An iPhone is a premium product because of it's price and only its price.Being a popular product does not preclude it from being a premium one.
We can argue the nuances all day so i guess its best if we agree to disagree on that, however my original point was that being
a "premium" product isnt limited to quantity sold.
redguy said:
First time poster, long-time lurker, so hi all!
I just wanted to post my thoughts. As a long-term BMW owner (had a couple of E21's, 2 E36's and 2 E90's), I stopped by my local dealership on Sunday to see what's about. I don't buy in that price range, but thought it would be good to sit in some of the newer designs as I'm looking to change next year.
What struck me - alarmingly so - was how ordinary they all felt inside. Most of these were 40k+, but they didn't feel in the least like that.
Maybe it's me - but before, when I sat in certain cars, and then bought an (even a good deal older) BMW, it just felt different, a bit more of an experience. The newer ones just didn't have it for me. The steering wheels in some felt pretty similar to my friends new Corsa SRI, with the plastic silver trim!
That mixed the reliability on certain models is making any change harder - but I'll ask that another time!
I just have the overall impression that either a) the brand isn't what it was, or b) other manufacturers have caught up, so why pay the premium?
E36's have tragically dreadful interiors. Nothing at all premium about them. I just wanted to post my thoughts. As a long-term BMW owner (had a couple of E21's, 2 E36's and 2 E90's), I stopped by my local dealership on Sunday to see what's about. I don't buy in that price range, but thought it would be good to sit in some of the newer designs as I'm looking to change next year.
What struck me - alarmingly so - was how ordinary they all felt inside. Most of these were 40k+, but they didn't feel in the least like that.
Maybe it's me - but before, when I sat in certain cars, and then bought an (even a good deal older) BMW, it just felt different, a bit more of an experience. The newer ones just didn't have it for me. The steering wheels in some felt pretty similar to my friends new Corsa SRI, with the plastic silver trim!
That mixed the reliability on certain models is making any change harder - but I'll ask that another time!
I just have the overall impression that either a) the brand isn't what it was, or b) other manufacturers have caught up, so why pay the premium?
AH33 said:
daemon said:
Premium doesnt mean restricted availability.
No but you'd expect to see fewer "premium" products than "run of the mill" ones. There's nothing impressive or special about a 1 series.But in regard, any brand that considers itself, or is considered premium is outsold by cars that are not.
Rawwr said:
daemon said:
Whilst i take your point (i am not an apple fanboi and have no apple devices), the actual product itself is a premium product.
Being a popular product does not preclude it from being a premium one.
It's certainly perceived as a premium product and I appreciated that perception is reality and all that stuff but it's only premium in the abstract sense of the word. A Rolls Royce Phantom is a premium product, demonstrably through its materials, construction, assembly and exclusivity. An iPhone is a premium product because of it's price and only its price.Being a popular product does not preclude it from being a premium one.
Gad-Westy said:
300bhp/ton said:
E36's have tragically dreadful interiors. Nothing at all premium about them.
Cannot agree with that at all. Look at what other small saloon car interiors looked like in 1990. Sierra, cavalier, Accord, etc. Surely you can see (and feel) the difference? 
t now, every true premium brands.At the time, the BMW was a world ahead. As was Merc (even moreso)
Ares said:
Totally agree - any car from the 1990s looks st now, every true premium brands.
At the time, the BMW was a world ahead. As was Merc (even moreso)
Indeed. I'm not so sure there is such a chasm these days (if at all) but back then the difference seemed vast. Even the main stream stuff that came much later (Mondeo, Vectra etc) still seemed far inferior in terms of perceived quality.t now, every true premium brands.At the time, the BMW was a world ahead. As was Merc (even moreso)
Only thing I will say is that back in 1991 when my father ordered a new E34, it was a little unimpressive when said 'premium' car arrived with a hole in the dash where one might reasonably expect to find a radio. Seems that having a radio was very much a premium.
I would say the lower cars aren't premium, they just carry the premium badge, a 1 series is full of low rent plastics and has the same blanking cover for the 12v port as the Renault traffic.
You can still see the cut above In a golf compared to a focus. I had a mk3.5 focus for 5 months or so and it was a decent car, good materials up high but lower down weren't as good. I would also say that fords sync system isn't a patch on Idrive, especially the sat nav.
It's got to a point now where all cars are so similar there's not much to tell them apart, more kit seems to be present on premium brands, there's still no LED headlamp option on the fiesta for example, where as the new polo does have them.
A Audi A3 is still a step above the leon which I have noW, lots of interior rattles, no damping in the door bins, little things that add up. The Audi screen is also much better,
I would say the rest are still better than the Japanese, they are still putting "auto" on all thw window switches
You can still see the cut above In a golf compared to a focus. I had a mk3.5 focus for 5 months or so and it was a decent car, good materials up high but lower down weren't as good. I would also say that fords sync system isn't a patch on Idrive, especially the sat nav.
It's got to a point now where all cars are so similar there's not much to tell them apart, more kit seems to be present on premium brands, there's still no LED headlamp option on the fiesta for example, where as the new polo does have them.
A Audi A3 is still a step above the leon which I have noW, lots of interior rattles, no damping in the door bins, little things that add up. The Audi screen is also much better,
I would say the rest are still better than the Japanese, they are still putting "auto" on all thw window switches
daemon said:
Rawwr said:
daemon said:
Whilst i take your point (i am not an apple fanboi and have no apple devices), the actual product itself is a premium product.
Being a popular product does not preclude it from being a premium one.
It's certainly perceived as a premium product and I appreciated that perception is reality and all that stuff but it's only premium in the abstract sense of the word. A Rolls Royce Phantom is a premium product, demonstrably through its materials, construction, assembly and exclusivity. An iPhone is a premium product because of it's price and only its price.Being a popular product does not preclude it from being a premium one.
We can argue the nuances all day so i guess its best if we agree to disagree on that, however my original point was that being
a "premium" product isnt limited to quantity sold.
Apple is a premium brand for the smartphone category.
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