Premium Brands - Have Others Caught Up?

[daemon]

ZX10R NIN said:

We have a Mondeo Vignale as our pool car & as someone who has a few Mercedes I have to say that it's a very nice place to (210bhp Auto all the toys) be especially when you take into account that you'd be shelling out between 8-10k extra to match it, it's hard to see why you'd buy the premium brand unless you were looking for the 335d/i models.

For the 26k we paid for the 17 plate Vignale you can't get a "Premium" product that's better you'll end up in a less well equipped car but you'll have the badge it just comes down to which one you want more, at which point there is no wrong answer.

Now the interior whilst a decent step up from the Titanium model is still a step behind the premium marketed brands Audi/Mercedes/BMW but the fit & finish aren't far off.

I think the problem with the Vignale is that whilst it may be cheaper than "premium" products, its an awful lot more money for what most people deem to be a trim level upgrade.

You can buy a 2017 Titanium 180BHP auto for £18.500, for example

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

OR, for similar money a 320d M Sport with leather, auto etc,

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

OR, for a little more, a 330d Luxury with leather and auto.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

[KTF]

daemon said:

I think the problem with the Vignale is that whilst it may be cheaper than "premium" products, its an awful lot more money for what most people deem to be a trim level upgrade.

You can buy a 2017 Titanium 180BHP auto for £18.500, for example

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

OR, for similar money a 320d M Sport with leather, auto etc,

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

OR, for a little more, a 330d Luxury with leather and auto.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

25k is not 'similar money' to an 18k Mondeo though. At nearly 10k more, people looking at the 18k Mondeo are not going to be looking at the 330d either.

[Hungrymc]

KTF said:

25k is not 'similar money' to an 18k Mondeo though. At nearly 10k more, people looking at the 18k Mondeo are not going to be looking at the 330d either.

I think that was the point, the Vignale is a lot of money over a titanium (the 18K one) and it puts it into the same league as the BMWs in the adverts... I think.

[Deerfoot]

KTF said:

25k is not 'similar money' to an 18k Mondeo though. At nearly 10k more, people looking at the 18k Mondeo are not going to be looking at the 330d either.

That was his point, the poster above stated they'd paid £26k for a Mondeo Vignale, £18k will get a Mondeo Titanium as linked, a bit more (than the £26k Vignale) will get you into the 3 Series....

[KTF]

Ah, I see

You can get a Vignale for <£500 more than that 18.5K Titanium. They make much more sense then:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

[daemon]

KTF said:

daemon said:

I think the problem with the Vignale is that whilst it may be cheaper than "premium" products, its an awful lot more money for what most people deem to be a trim level upgrade.

You can buy a 2017 Titanium 180BHP auto for £18.500, for example

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

OR, for similar money a 320d M Sport with leather, auto etc,

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

OR, for a little more, a 330d Luxury with leather and auto.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

25k is not 'similar money' to an 18k Mondeo though. At nearly 10k more, people looking at the 18k Mondeo are not going to be looking at the 330d either.

This is what i was referring to

ZX10R NIN said:

For the 26k we paid for the 17 plate Vignale you can't get a "Premium" product that's better

[daemon]

Hungrymc said:

KTF said:

25k is not 'similar money' to an 18k Mondeo though. At nearly 10k more, people looking at the 18k Mondeo are not going to be looking at the 330d either.

I think that was the point, the Vignale is a lot of money over a titanium (the 18K one) and it puts it into the same league as the BMWs in the adverts... I think.

His company paid £26K for a 17 plate diesel Vignale.

[daemon]

KTF said:

Ah, I see

You can get a Vignale for <£500 more than that 18.5K Titanium. They make much more sense then:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

Jesus god, please compare like with like.

Thats a 2015 PETROL estate variant with 43,000 miles. Not the top spec 17 plate 2.0 TDI 210BHP Vignale variant originally quoted OR even the 2017 Titanium you referenced.

[jhonn]

I feel for Ford & Vauxhall - they can build and trim a car to almost, if not the same level of quality and premium as BMW, Audi, et al, and no matter objectively how good it was, they would sell hardly any because so many buyers want the 'premium' badge. They can't grow their market share up the way, it must be frustrating for them to be so pigeonholed.

Yet, Audi and BMW can expand their line-up in to the more mundane segments and sell shedloads; OK they have brand dilution to consider but it doesn't seem to have harmed them so far.

[andrewc2102]

I think it depends on what you perceive as quality, the things you interact and touch and refinement / lack of rattles or reliability, Japanese cars fall a long way short in terms of interior quality and NVH in my experience, our 2008 Civic is a nasty nasty thing with cheap horrible plastics and EVERYTHING rattles and squeaks and the isolation from road and engine noise seems virtually none existent. I've been in the generic Astra's / Focuses and they are far better in this respect.

However it is very reliable...

[daemon]

jhonn said:

I feel for Ford & Vauxhall - they can build and trim a car to almost, if not the same level of quality and premium as BMW, Audi, et al, and no matter objectively how good it was, they would sell hardly any because so many buyers want the 'premium' badge. They can't grow their market share up the way, it must be frustrating for them to be so pigeonholed.

Yet, Audi and BMW can expand their line-up in to the more mundane segments and sell shedloads; OK they have brand dilution to consider but it doesn't seem to have harmed them so far.

But likewise you cant slap a few extras on a car as Ford have done with the Vignale and expect people to pay £7,000 more for it. Apparently theres a "special waiting area" for Vignale customers in Ford dealerships though. Woohoo!

I'm in the market for a 2016 / 2017 large petrol saloon / hatch and i must admit i'd find it very very hard to walk past something like this 2016 Insignia 2.0T SRi with 247BHP, leather, NAV and an auto box at £15K (ZX10R NIN listed this one on another thread for me)....

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

To buy an "equivalent" 2016 Mercedes for nigh on another £10,000 for their 181BHP C200 AMG Line....

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

Edited by daemon on Friday 22 September 13:13

[jhonn]

daemon said:

But likewise you cant slap a few extras on a car as Ford have done with the Vignale and expect people to pay £7,000 more for it. Apparently theres a "special waiting area" for Vignale customers in Ford dealerships though. Woohoo!

Maybe it's a deliberate strategy by Ford testing the market again to see if there is any public interest in them moving 'upmarket'; there's a school of thought with 'veblen goods' - make them expensive and 'exclusive' and people will see them as aspirational and desirable.

It might work for them - it's something they can do with existing models with minimum investment and outlay.

[TurboHatchback]

I think Audi do nice interiors but in general there isn't much to choose between manufacturers at a given level. The only thing that sets 'premium' manufacturers apart is that they produce some 'premium' models, i.e. there is no Vauxhall/Ford/Kia equivalent to a 6/7-series, S-Class, A8 etc. Also they do (or at least did) 'premium' spec options on regular models, for example you could have an AWD Audi A4 with a 3.2l V6 and decent autobox.

When it comes to comparing like for like I don't think the 'premium' models offer any more than snob factor. If I was to choose between a 8-10yr old 2wd diesel 3-series, C-class, A4 or Mk4 Mondeo I would pick the mondeo as it's the nicest car of the bunch in every way. If the choice was BMW 550i, A6 4.2, E500 5.5l or Mondeo then that's a different story as there is no equivalent non-'premium' competing model.

[J4CKO]

I wonder if, for some like how Apple phones were premium and Android considered a bit "Council", then every punter had one on a monthly deal it loses its luster a bit and people then dont feel as compelled to go "Premium" ?

I think the Kia and Hyundai stuff is doing that, used to be cheap and cheerful but now a viable alternative, and not that cheap.

As mentioned, it still works at the higher end but is an Audi A1 really any better than a Fiesta, Polo or whatever, maybe some platics, but the rest, meh.

[AH33]

It's not premium if every fker has one

[Rawwr]

Mid-80s to mid-90s, husband had a Cavalier or Sierra, wife had a Fiesta or Nova.

These days, husband has an A4 or 3-Series, wife has an A1 or 1-Series.

There's no difference. What do proles drive? ^ that

[daemon]

J4CKO said:

I wonder if, for some like how Apple phones were premium and Android considered a bit "Council", then every punter had one on a monthly deal it loses its luster a bit and people then dont feel as compelled to go "Premium" ?

I think the Kia and Hyundai stuff is doing that, used to be cheap and cheerful but now a viable alternative, and not that cheap.

As mentioned, it still works at the higher end but is an Audi A1 really any better than a Fiesta, Polo or whatever, maybe some platics, but the rest, meh.

Persumably theres millions spent by the likes of Apple and Samsung understanding and implementing exactly what "premium" means to people and thus they pitch their product at exactly that market space and exactly at the price point they think the market can sustain.

Kia and Hyundai used to sell cheap cars cheap. They then have moved in to the space of selling "good" cars. Unfortunately, you cant sell good quality cars cheap as you lose money, so their price point has had to move up. Their USP now is their long warranty rather than purely price.

I guess from Audis perspective an A1 gets customers "on the hook" earlier, and thus they can be converted to A3 / A4 / Q drivers later. I've never seen the appeal of an A1 though personally.

[daemon]

AH33 said:

It's not premium if every fker has one

Premium doesnt mean restricted availability.

[Sheepshanks]

jhonn said:

daemon said:

But likewise you cant slap a few extras on a car as Ford have done with the Vignale and expect people to pay £7,000 more for it. Apparently theres a "special waiting area" for Vignale customers in Ford dealerships though. Woohoo!

Maybe it's a deliberate strategy by Ford testing the market again to see if there is any public interest in them moving 'upmarket'; there's a school of thought with 'veblen goods' - make them expensive and 'exclusive' and people will see them as aspirational and desirable.

It might work for them - it's something they can do with existing models with minimum investment and outlay.

Apparently Vignale is 13% of Mondeo sales - I'm amazed by that.

[AH33]

daemon said:

Premium doesnt mean restricted availability.

No but you'd expect to see fewer "premium" products than "run of the mill" ones. There's nothing impressive or special about a 1 series.