Premium Brands - Have Others Caught Up?

[havoc]

Willy Nilly said:

Are you suggesting that the same car that didn't sell well, probably due to its pricing would sell better if it was more expensive?

I am becoming to hate fancy branding. I wish people would look at products on their relative and tangible merits, not what a marketing man told you. Cars, clothes, phones, fking spanners, trainers, coffee, all bought on branding.

No, I'm saying the same car would sell better if it had an upmarket badge. Especially in the UK.


Your second paragraph - agree 100% - I'm probably a marketing man's worst nightmare.

[Uncle John]

Probably been said before on here but I find BMW interiors so so bland and far from premium all the way from a 120d up to to an X6M. Cheap leather, and even the option stuff is cheap in feel.

Completely puts me off them.

[Casa1862]

I went from a new shape 320d Se to a Lexus IS 300h, Lexus way better quality, both cars approx. £30k worth. Lexus seems to get forgotten but they really have improved.

[Gad-Westy]

Inclined to agree with those that say that the division lines are blurring. 'Premium' brands are offering more mainstream products now so inevitably some cost cutting is going on. On the flipside, cheap car quality has sky rocketed.

I think there was a major step change when the Mk4 Golf came along. In a PH sense it was a total duffer but the interior quality was so far ahead of any mainstream family hatch that had gone before. It seemed like a total quantum leap. On the exterior as well, fit and finish and in particular panel gaps seemed significantly better than we were all used to. After that, I don't think anyone could get away with offering nasty plastics and clumsy switch gear any more.

At about the same time the Mk1 Focus came along as well. That wasn't at the level of the Golf inside (though did start a trend for more interesting dash architecture) but it did handle absolutely superbly. Again, looking back it seemed like a step change.

I'm sure those two cars shifted people's expectations of ordinary cars massively.

[daemon]

Casa1862 said:

I went from a new shape 320d Se to a Lexus IS 300h, Lexus way better quality, both cars approx. £30k worth. Lexus seems to get forgotten but they really have improved.

I like the idea of a Lexus but they still run with a CVT auto box dont they?

[av185]

Trif said:

what I am saying is buying a 118D in the south east for its driving experience is pointless.

Buying a 118D anywhere for its driving experience is pointless.

It's a diesel ffs.

[Rawwr]

Honestly, I've never seen the premium in Audi or VW interiors, which people seem to keep banging on about. Maybe I'm weird.

[av185]

PaulGL790 said:

The marketing technique to expand the ranges of premium brands so every sector is covered and now sell in their droves, resale values kept high and still get classed in many peoples eyes as prestige even if they are everywhere . The marketing of these brands is pure genius , common as muck but viewed as a prestige car .

Hasn't really needed marketing as the huge increase in pcp along with generation rent i phone boom has allowed the so called 'premium brands' meteoric rise through thus far higher residuals than the usual 'mainstream' stuff.

Despite every man and his dog pcping a low rent often white 3 series a4 class whatever tdi under the delusion these are better cars than say Ford or Vauxhall equivalent is clearly more of a marketing triumph than anything else about quality. Some brand dilution has inevitably taken place however.

In reality, these ubiquitous low rent models offer nothing more than the equivalent e.g. Ford or Vauxhall.

[DoYouEvenBoost]

The premium brands are still streaks ahead, still can't find an interior like a Rolls Royce in terms of luxury.

BMW/Audi/Merc are not premium brands, never were. They were a step above Vaux/Ford/Honda etc. but not premium brands. Now they most certainly aren't, premium brands don't have what appears to be 50% of the market between them with the swathes of 116d etc. etc. poverty spec ones running around. Premium brands don't churn out en mass.

BMW/Audi/Merc are like D&G watches. Sure, they're a nice watch, £300 is a fair wedge for a watch for a normal person and they're nicer than a Casio. Girard-Perregaux they are not thought. a Girard-Perregaux is a premium watch, limited availability and taken to the nth degree.

[Willy Nilly]

Gad-Westy said:

Inclined to agree with those that say that the division lines are blurring. 'Premium' brands are offering more mainstream products now so inevitably some cost cutting is going on. On the flipside, cheap car quality has sky rocketed.

I think there was a major step change when the Mk4 Golf came along. In a PH sense it was a total duffer but the interior quality was so far ahead of any mainstream family hatch that had gone before. It seemed like a total quantum leap. On the exterior as well, fit and finish and in particular panel gaps seemed significantly better than we were all used to. After that, I don't think anyone could get away with offering nasty plastics and clumsy switch gear any more.

At about the same time the Mk1 Focus came along as well. That wasn't at the level of the Golf inside (though did start a trend for more interesting dash architecture) but it did handle absolutely superbly. Again, looking back it seemed like a step change.

I'm sure those two cars shifted people's expectations of ordinary cars massively.

I put it to you that the Focus is/was the better car. There are still a lot of MKI Focus's (Foci?) about where as MKIV Golfs are getting thin on the ground. People do seem to be suckered in my a deep "thunk" when a door shuts which would have sold quite a few cars, but were the bits that you couldn't see, but are very important, any better engineered than any other car? I use mini cabs from time to time and zee German cars get very rattly, much more so than the French and even Vauxhalls, but you get in an Avensis with 300,000 miles on it an you get taken home in near silence. That to my mind is a superior product.

People on here ofter say how X lugzury car is a "nice place to be", which is a stupid phrase, then will mention in passing how their cars aren't actually particularly reliable or durable. But these are premium brands, with premium brand repairs that make you feel better about yourself and social standing. I know for a fact that Porsche batteries go flat if the car stands for a couple of weeks. That wouldn't be acceptable on a Fiesta, so why on a car that cost 10 times and more as much?

[Benjijames28]

I've looked at a lot of cars in the last year. In fact I pretty much tried every car in the class I was looking for.

Ford's, Skoda's, Vw, Mercedes , jags, BMW, Audi, Mazda, pugeot, Hyundai, honda... Everything!

Having looked and sat in all these cars I would say that some of the cheaper cars are nice enough places to be, but your big 3, Audi, BMW, Mercedes are still a class above in terms of interior and build quality. As others have said newer Mercedes are top class, but Audi leads the way with BMW not far behind.

Even today, I looked at a Volvo v60, very nice place to be, comfy seats, but the overall build quality, even down to how the doors closed didn't compare to the BMW 5 series I own, you can tell there's a difference in the quality.

[survivalist]

DoYouEvenBoost said:

The premium brands are still streaks ahead, still can't find an interior like a Rolls Royce in terms of luxury.

BMW/Audi/Merc are not premium brands, never were. They were a step above Vaux/Ford/Honda etc. but not premium brands. Now they most certainly aren't, premium brands don't have what appears to be 50% of the market between them with the swathes of 116d etc. etc. poverty spec ones running around. Premium brands don't churn out en mass.

BMW/Audi/Merc are like D&G watches. Sure, they're a nice watch, £300 is a fair wedge for a watch for a normal person and they're nicer than a Casio. Girard-Perregaux they are not thought. a Girard-Perregaux is a premium watch, limited availability and taken to the nth degree.

To me that's an interesting comment. To my mind Girard-Perregaux are exactly what BMW, Mercedes and BMW are these days, trading on brand values without really offering anything different apart from supposed exclusivity and branding.

[deadscoob]

Willy Nilly said:

I put it to you that the Focus is/was the better car. There are still a lot of MKI Focus's (Foci?) about where as MKIV Golfs are getting thin on the ground. People do seem to be suckered in my a deep "thunk" when a door shuts which would have sold quite a few cars, but were the bits that you couldn't see, but are very important, any better engineered than any other car? I use mini cabs from time to time and zee German cars get very rattly, much more so than the French and even Vauxhalls, but you get in an Avensis with 300,000 miles on it an you get taken home in near silence. That to my mind is a superior product.

People on here ofter say how X lugzury car is a "nice place to be", which is a stupid phrase, then will mention in passing how their cars aren't actually particularly reliable or durable. But these are premium brands, with premium brand repairs that make you feel better about yourself and social standing. I know for a fact that Porsche batteries go flat if the car stands for a couple of weeks. That wouldn't be acceptable on a Fiesta, so why on a car that cost 10 times and more as much?

You seem to have a real chip on your shoulders about certain brands.
All Porsche batteries go flat in a couple weeks fact lol

[Willy Nilly]

deadscoob said:

You seem to have a real chip on your shoulders about certain brands.
All Porsche batteries go flat in a couple weeks fact lol

Does he connect these cars to an Optimate for a laugh then? 3 cars, all costing over 6 figures and they won't start. Nice.

[Hungrymc]

Part of the reason this is blurring is that the mainstream models from "premium brands" are using cheaper and lighter materials than they did 15 years ago. The cheaper brands have improved and they're meeting in the middle.

But when you get to the higher models of the 'premium' cars, they're lovely. I'm not disputing that a Honda Jazz is effective basic transport, but I'd rather sit in a Jag XJ or a nice XC90.

fk all to do with branding and image (thats why I chose these examples). Jag isn't really an image I particularly want, neither is Volvo. But they're beautiful interiors. I guess you can sit in an old shipping container and tell yourself it's effective shelter, but you rather sit in your lounge.

I've had a Kia Optima hire care again this week, loads of features, a nice enough car. But everything is a little odd - it's set up / calibrated differently to what I'm used too and the materials are I pressume hard wearing but not terribly nice. It's a lot of car for I guess about 30k. But it's also not nice enough to spend 30k on.

Edited by Hungrymc on Thursday 21st September 22:53

[Hungrymc]

Willy Nilly said:

deadscoob said:

You seem to have a real chip on your shoulders about certain brands.
All Porsche batteries go flat in a couple weeks fact lol

Does he connect these cars to an Optimate for a laugh then? 3 cars, all costing over 6 figures and they won't start. Nice.

I guess there are two factors... difficult starting (anything with a larger engine) and residual current drain due to any systems that stay live (anything more complex). And maybe a 3rd factor of 3 cars diluting the usage even more ?

Can't see it as a Porsche issue specifically? Anyway, I had a 911 for 6 years, parked up at various times for 2 to 3 weeks and it never failed to start.

[av185]

Yep Porsche batteries are as good as any others.

Often leave them garaged through the winter unused with the alarms flashing internally.....never fail to start come Spring.

[daemon]

It used to be a 2.0i BMW got you a creamy straight six under the bonnet.

Now its just a turbo'd four banger like every elses.

[ZX10R NIN]

We have a Mondeo Vignale as our pool car & as someone who has a few Mercedes I have to say that it's a very nice place to (210bhp Auto all the toys) be especially when you take into account that you'd be shelling out between 8-10k extra to match it, it's hard to see why you'd buy the premium brand unless you were looking for the 335d/i models.

For the 26k we paid for the 17 plate Vignale you can't get a "Premium" product that's better you'll end up in a less well equipped car but you'll have the badge it just comes down to which one you want more, at which point there is no wrong answer.

Now the interior whilst a decent step up from the Titanium model is still a step behind the premium marketed brands Audi/Mercedes/BMW but the fit & finish aren't far off.

[Hungrymc]

ZX10R NIN said:

Now the interior whilst a decent step up from the Titanium model is still a step behind the premium marketed brands Audi/Mercedes/BMW but the fit & finish aren't far off.

I'm surprised these Vignale Mondeo's aren't a more common sight. I don't think the current car is much of a step on from previous (CD345) but the Vignale trim level which is new with this generation is very strong. Where do you see the gap / how would you describe the step from it to a "premium" brand?