House for sale - 3 flats back to house - considerations?
Discussion
Going to view this house on Saturday:
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...
Currently arranged as three 1-bed flats:
The flats have individual council tax bills on the VOA website and are listed separately on the Royal Mail postcode checker. Agent says it's one title though, so sold as a lot. Agent also said vendor hasn't enquired with local council about conversion back to single house, the agent was '99% sure' it would be fine!
Main questions are:
- Would a mainstream mortgage lender lend on this as if it were a single property?
- How can I check if planning dept. would be OK with conversion back to a single dwelling? They don't appear to offer a phone service or informal drop-in sessions and none of the council or planning portal website case studies are anything like this. I can't seem to apply for a lawful development certificate without proving ownership / formal interest. Does the vendor need to do this really?
- What are the practicalities of getting utilities capped for the 2 redundant supplies, joining internal wiring, joining plumbing, etc... ?
- Any other comments to help me work out if this is a good idea or not?
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...
Currently arranged as three 1-bed flats:
The flats have individual council tax bills on the VOA website and are listed separately on the Royal Mail postcode checker. Agent says it's one title though, so sold as a lot. Agent also said vendor hasn't enquired with local council about conversion back to single house, the agent was '99% sure' it would be fine!
Main questions are:
- Would a mainstream mortgage lender lend on this as if it were a single property?
- How can I check if planning dept. would be OK with conversion back to a single dwelling? They don't appear to offer a phone service or informal drop-in sessions and none of the council or planning portal website case studies are anything like this. I can't seem to apply for a lawful development certificate without proving ownership / formal interest. Does the vendor need to do this really?
- What are the practicalities of getting utilities capped for the 2 redundant supplies, joining internal wiring, joining plumbing, etc... ?
- Any other comments to help me work out if this is a good idea or not?
I done something similar a few years ago. The two top floors had been made into a single flat with another flat on the ground floor. I asked the planners if I needed permission to put it back as a house and was told no, that doesn't mean a different authority won't have other ideas though. Electric cost about £400 to remove meters, gas ripped me a new a
hole and charged over a grand to cap off supply and remove meter, tts.
hole and charged over a grand to cap off supply and remove meter, tts.Don't ever believe what an EA says. Ask him to underwrite the risk and watch him back pedal on his 99% figure. 
On another thread a while back someone said that it can be problematic getting permissions to convert houses back as the authorities are reluctant to lose the homes.
Maybe a very local architect can give the quickest insight into how it is likely to work in that area?
On another thread a while back someone said that it can be problematic getting permissions to convert houses back as the authorities are reluctant to lose the homes.
Maybe a very local architect can give the quickest insight into how it is likely to work in that area?
DonkeyApple said:
Don't ever believe what an EA says. Ask him to underwrite the risk and watch him back pedal on his 99% figure.
On another thread a while back someone said that it can be problematic getting permissions to convert houses back as the authorities are reluctant to lose the council tax revenue
Maybe a very local architect can give the quickest insight into how it is likely to work in that area?
EFAOn another thread a while back someone said that it can be problematic getting permissions to convert houses back as the authorities are reluctant to lose the council tax revenue
Maybe a very local architect can give the quickest insight into how it is likely to work in that area?
I'd definitely want something in writing from the council to say that they'd consider the possibility.
A lot of the London councils were stopping this type of development a few years ago because it was working against their targets of creating more individual dwellings.
I am not sure if that is the case, or if it was even the same in that area to start with, but if you come up against a council with that general policy then you are going to have a mountain to climb.
A lot of the London councils were stopping this type of development a few years ago because it was working against their targets of creating more individual dwellings.
I am not sure if that is the case, or if it was even the same in that area to start with, but if you come up against a council with that general policy then you are going to have a mountain to climb.
Good idea on trying a local architect to find out about policy, will give it a go next week if viewing on Saturday goes OK.
I've emailed the planning department anyway to ask if there is any way to engage them for advice, phone was just going to answer machine.
They stand to lose around £1k pa in council tax revenue and 2 houses against their targets, so I can see why it might not fit policy.
Interestingly the land registry website lists 4 titles; flat 1, flat 2, flat 3 and 'land at rear', so potentially doesn't match with what agent thought. Mortgage might be difficult enough to obtain on a single title split into flats, but I think 4 titles would be even tougher.
No idea yet how much effort to make back into single house, photos avoid showing the alterations too much, so will only be able to tell on viewing.
4 doors down, same basic structure, sold for £535k in October 2015, good condition, with conservatory on back and possibly extra space in attic, but almost no garden.
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatc...
House on other side of street, same basic structure again, currently up for £675k, good condition, off-street parking, small extension on back and extra attic space converted.
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...
My best guess on house I'm looking at is ~£550k fully refurbished if conversion to flats hasn't ruined too many period details, so I guess I work back from that.
Complexity of titles makes me think it might end up with developer cash buyer as only real option.
I've emailed the planning department anyway to ask if there is any way to engage them for advice, phone was just going to answer machine.
They stand to lose around £1k pa in council tax revenue and 2 houses against their targets, so I can see why it might not fit policy.
Interestingly the land registry website lists 4 titles; flat 1, flat 2, flat 3 and 'land at rear', so potentially doesn't match with what agent thought. Mortgage might be difficult enough to obtain on a single title split into flats, but I think 4 titles would be even tougher.
No idea yet how much effort to make back into single house, photos avoid showing the alterations too much, so will only be able to tell on viewing.
4 doors down, same basic structure, sold for £535k in October 2015, good condition, with conservatory on back and possibly extra space in attic, but almost no garden.
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatc...
House on other side of street, same basic structure again, currently up for £675k, good condition, off-street parking, small extension on back and extra attic space converted.
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...
My best guess on house I'm looking at is ~£550k fully refurbished if conversion to flats hasn't ruined too many period details, so I guess I work back from that.
Complexity of titles makes me think it might end up with developer cash buyer as only real option.
No idea how the new stamp duty would work but assume you'd pay extra for 2 of the 3 as they wouldn't be your primary domicile and then haven't you got a time limit under which to claim the tax back so all conversion work and legal changes would have to be within that timeframe?
Ultimately, it has to be best to leave it to an investor who wants three flats in one location?
Ultimately, it has to be best to leave it to an investor who wants three flats in one location?
DonkeyApple said:
No idea how the new stamp duty would work but assume you'd pay extra for 2 of the 3 as they wouldn't be your primary domicile and then haven't you got a time limit under which to claim the tax back so all conversion work and legal changes would have to be within that timeframe?
Ultimately, it has to be best to leave it to an investor who wants three flats in one location?
Oddly enough, to make the numbers easy, say it sells for £480k, or 3 lots of £160k SDLT is cheaper on the 3 transactions!Ultimately, it has to be best to leave it to an investor who wants three flats in one location?
£14,000 as a single purchase, £700 + £5500 + £5500 = £11,700 as 3 purchases.
Little Lofty said:
I done something similar a few years ago. The two top floors had been made into a single flat with another flat on the ground floor. I asked the planners if I needed permission to put it back as a house and was told no, that doesn't mean a different authority won't have other ideas though. Electric cost about £400 to remove meters, gas ripped me a new ahole and charged over a grand to cap off supply and remove meter, tts.
Cheers, thought it might be high numbers like that.hole and charged over a grand to cap off supply and remove meter, tts.Just to finish the thread off in case anyone has similar queries. The local authority planning dept. were pretty helpful in the end and gave me informal advice that planning would not be required to return the house to a single dwelling.
I liked the place and made an offer, but was outbid very quickly and it went SSTC middle of last week.
I liked the place and made an offer, but was outbid very quickly and it went SSTC middle of last week.
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