Whose fault is it if a cyclist "T-bones" you at a T-junction
Discussion
nickfrog said:
loggo said:
Probably not helpful but if the cyclist was going ahead he was not filtering he was overtaking on the inside.
I tend to agree but I don't know if that's legal or not.Mandalore said:
nickfrog said:
loggo said:
Probably not helpful but if the cyclist was going ahead he was not filtering he was overtaking on the inside.
I tend to agree but I don't know if that's legal or not.It is often difficult to see motorcyclists and cyclists, especially when they are coming up from behind, coming out of junctions, at roundabouts, overtaking you or filtering through traffic. Always look out for them before you emerge from a junction; they could be approaching faster than you think.
When turning right across a line of slow-moving or stationary traffic, look out for cyclists or motorcyclists on the inside of the traffic you are crossing. Be especially careful when turning, and when changing direction or lane. Be sure to check mirrors and blind spots carefully.
Both drivers and cyclists need to be careful. http://www.cyclelaw.co.uk/overtaking-and-filtering...
Case Law:
"There is very little case law that deals with situations where cyclists have been injured whilst overtaking or filtering, however, some guidance can be taken from similar situations involving motorcycles. Cases such as Pell v Moseley (2003) and Hillman v Tomkins (1995), both of which concerned a motorcyclist involved in a collision whilst overtaking on the right, demonstrate that the outcome of such cases depends on the particular facts of each case; this is likely to be the case in situations involving bicycles as well. In both of these cases the judge found that the rider and driver were equally to blame, because, they both should have anticipated the actions of the other. Whether or not a driver or rider is to blame for any accident whilst filtering seems to depend on factors such as the speed of the vehicles and the bicycle, the parties’ knowledge of the local area and the location of the accident, e.g., was it near a junction? Although it is legal to filter on a bicycle, it can be inferred from the motorcyclist cases that where cyclists are found to have been filtering in a way deemed to be ‘bad practice’ when a collision takes place, there is strong chance of a finding of contributory negligence on the part of the cyclist."
Further,
"Clearly there are dangers surrounding the practice of filtering by cyclists and there is as yet little guidance from the courts as to what is expected of cyclists in this regard. What does seem reasonably certain is that in the event of a collision, the success of a claim for damages would depend on the manner in which each party was driving or riding. Where a cyclist was riding in an unsafe manner it is likely that they will be held at least partly responsible for the accident, despite the Highway Code placing a duty on drivers to look out for riders who may be filtering through traffic. It would be highly beneficial for some definitive legal and practical guidance to be produced in this area because as it stands, the uncertainty surrounding the practice of filtering only causes confusion."
Case Law:
"There is very little case law that deals with situations where cyclists have been injured whilst overtaking or filtering, however, some guidance can be taken from similar situations involving motorcycles. Cases such as Pell v Moseley (2003) and Hillman v Tomkins (1995), both of which concerned a motorcyclist involved in a collision whilst overtaking on the right, demonstrate that the outcome of such cases depends on the particular facts of each case; this is likely to be the case in situations involving bicycles as well. In both of these cases the judge found that the rider and driver were equally to blame, because, they both should have anticipated the actions of the other. Whether or not a driver or rider is to blame for any accident whilst filtering seems to depend on factors such as the speed of the vehicles and the bicycle, the parties’ knowledge of the local area and the location of the accident, e.g., was it near a junction? Although it is legal to filter on a bicycle, it can be inferred from the motorcyclist cases that where cyclists are found to have been filtering in a way deemed to be ‘bad practice’ when a collision takes place, there is strong chance of a finding of contributory negligence on the part of the cyclist."
Further,
"Clearly there are dangers surrounding the practice of filtering by cyclists and there is as yet little guidance from the courts as to what is expected of cyclists in this regard. What does seem reasonably certain is that in the event of a collision, the success of a claim for damages would depend on the manner in which each party was driving or riding. Where a cyclist was riding in an unsafe manner it is likely that they will be held at least partly responsible for the accident, despite the Highway Code placing a duty on drivers to look out for riders who may be filtering through traffic. It would be highly beneficial for some definitive legal and practical guidance to be produced in this area because as it stands, the uncertainty surrounding the practice of filtering only causes confusion."
Edited by popeyewhite on Friday 22 September 18:15
Vipers said:
Mandalore said:
nickfrog said:
loggo said:
Probably not helpful but if the cyclist was going ahead he was not filtering he was overtaking on the inside.
I tend to agree but I don't know if that's legal or not.It is often difficult to see motorcyclists and cyclists, especially when they are coming up from behind, coming out of junctions, at roundabouts, overtaking you or filtering through traffic. Always look out for them before you emerge from a junction; they could be approaching faster than you think.
When turning right across a line of slow-moving or stationary traffic, look out for cyclists or motorcyclists on the inside of the traffic you are crossing. Be especially careful when turning, and when changing direction or lane. Be sure to check mirrors and blind spots carefully.
I repeat it is up to both the driver and cyclist to recognise the dangers of the situation as helpfully pointed in the Highway Code and drive/ride accordingly.
I was that cyclist 11yrs ago. Careless woman on school run turned in front of me - I smashed into her A pillar, breaking her windscreen and several of my ribs. She got a large fine for careless driving and had to pay a four figure sum compensation.
On another similar but less traumatic occasion I was unable to stop in time resulting in a punitive dent in a door and a slightly buckled wheel.
Can't understand why so many UK schoolchildren need an adult and a ton of metal to get to school - why no school buses American-style?
On another similar but less traumatic occasion I was unable to stop in time resulting in a punitive dent in a door and a slightly buckled wheel.
Can't understand why so many UK schoolchildren need an adult and a ton of metal to get to school - why no school buses American-style?
Vipers said:
Mandalore said:
nickfrog said:
loggo said:
Probably not helpful but if the cyclist was going ahead he was not filtering he was overtaking on the inside.
I tend to agree but I don't know if that's legal or not.It is often difficult to see motorcyclists and cyclists, especially when they are coming up from behind, coming out of junctions, at roundabouts, overtaking you or filtering through traffic. Always look out for them before you emerge from a junction; they could be approaching faster than you think.
When turning right across a line of slow-moving or stationary traffic, look out for cyclists or motorcyclists on the inside of the traffic you are crossing. Be especially careful when turning, and when changing direction or lane. Be sure to check mirrors and blind spots carefully.
Bennet said:
I turned in to a T-junction accross a lane of standing traffic this morning. Despite the fact that I was leaning forward in my seat looking down the lane of traffic of in order to try to avoid this exact situation, I still had a reasonably near miss with a cyclist. We both stopped in time. As you can see, there is no cycle lane and everyone on the scene was driving a Mitsubishi FTO.
If I hadn't been looking for him and we'd colided, would it have been my fault? Or is it his fault for filtering through a junction without due care? Does it make a difference if there is a cycle lane? If the car you're turning in front of is actually an HGV, and you can't see past it at all, should you refuse to turn?
It was no-ones fault as a collision was avoided - just as the HC says If I hadn't been looking for him and we'd colided, would it have been my fault? Or is it his fault for filtering through a junction without due care? Does it make a difference if there is a cycle lane? If the car you're turning in front of is actually an HGV, and you can't see past it at all, should you refuse to turn?
In that situation the turning right car is going to have to edge slowly forward to see, otherwise there's grid lock. They cant be at fault for that.
The cyclist should be riding so as to stop within the distance they can see clear. As soon as they see the turning right car edging out they can stop.
This is what happened
Same would work if it was a bus coming up the inside in a bus lane.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff