Whose fault is it if a cyclist "T-bones" you at a T-junction
Discussion
Integroo said:
chow pan toon said:
RacerMDR said:
agree entirely - but car to move at some point or the city stops functioning............and the cyclists (in London) are like mosquitos......so unless we want to stop ever pulling out or into any junction we need to assume the cyclist has responsibility for not wiping himself out by brainlessly assuming every turning is clear..........exactly the same as a motorcycle, jogger or pedestrian........
hence - it's 50/50 responsibility ............but the responsibility is on the vulnerable party to not get dead.
If a cyclist hit my car in this scenario I would be going after money for the damage
I mean, the highway code and common sense disagrees with you completely. But apart from that, excellent post hence - it's 50/50 responsibility ............but the responsibility is on the vulnerable party to not get dead.
If a cyclist hit my car in this scenario I would be going after money for the damage
Just a very experienced common sense driven very experienced driver, cyclist and motorcyclist..........in one of the most busy cities in the world.
My point stands - everybody is responsible for making sure they don't go faster than they can stop.
Thus responsibility is on behalf of both parties equally.
Of course you may crack on, riding in a manner that absolves you of any responsibility for your actions.
Personally, I'll stick with what has kept me alive thus far...........and well, if the highway code disagrees with me as well as your good self........I'll just try really hard to come to terms with that.
Racer 'Moron' MDR
X
Technically I guess this is the driver's fault, but in some situations probably almost impossible to see without trying to edge into the gap.
As a cyclist I would certainly be aware of cars turning, especially if traffic had left a gap in front to facilitate it. I also wouldn't be too surprised or annoyed if I had to stop to allow somebody to turn.
Another solution is to overtake on the right then filter back in when traffic starts to move.
Everyone needs to be aware, too many people are head down with earphones on trying to break some Strava record to work.
As a cyclist I would certainly be aware of cars turning, especially if traffic had left a gap in front to facilitate it. I also wouldn't be too surprised or annoyed if I had to stop to allow somebody to turn.
Another solution is to overtake on the right then filter back in when traffic starts to move.
Everyone needs to be aware, too many people are head down with earphones on trying to break some Strava record to work.
Integroo said:
Suicidal cyclists - you mean cyclists travelling at a normal speed that expect drivers to not pull out in front of them?
Yes, any cyclist or biker that expects a driver never to pull out on them is suicidal or at least accepting a very high risk to save a few seconds.The late cyclist can take comfort that the driver was in the wrong.
KillerHERTZ said:
This thread explains alot. I cannot believe people actually think this could in any way be the cyclists fault.
So you hit a child cycling home from school in the cycle lane/next to the curb (as per photo) is their fault?
It's not a cycle lane, it's the road. Other traffic has stopped to give way to a turning vehicle, maybe the cyclist should also?So you hit a child cycling home from school in the cycle lane/next to the curb (as per photo) is their fault?
I have been cycling to work recently and if that collision happened I would see it as 50/50.
cay said:
KillerHERTZ said:
This thread explains alot. I cannot believe people actually think this could in any way be the cyclists fault.
So you hit a child cycling home from school in the cycle lane/next to the curb (as per photo) is their fault?
It's not a cycle lane, it's the road. Other traffic has stopped to give way to a turning vehicle, maybe the cyclist should also?So you hit a child cycling home from school in the cycle lane/next to the curb (as per photo) is their fault?
I have been cycling to work recently and if that collision happened I would see it as 50/50.
t.I've been involved in a collision with a car in a very similar scenario to this except I was on a cycle superhighway. I was riding along and a driver flashed someone across who pulled out in front of me and I went straight in the side of them. It was deemed the driver's fault as he hadn't checked it was clear before coming across my lane.
Like all of us I try to be as observant as possible, just happened to be he pulled out as I was checking my blindspot as I thought I heard a motorbike behind me. Not much I could do to stop in time at that point!
Like all of us I try to be as observant as possible, just happened to be he pulled out as I was checking my blindspot as I thought I heard a motorbike behind me. Not much I could do to stop in time at that point!
cay said:
It's not a cycle lane, it's the road. Other traffic has stopped to give way to a turning vehicle, maybe the cyclist should also?
I have been cycling to work recently and if that collision happened I would see it as 50/50.
No. The car should not be giving way. Before stopping the car should look in their mirrors (as per highway code), upon noticing said cyclist they would know it's not clear and not give way.I have been cycling to work recently and if that collision happened I would see it as 50/50.
The other car should not be turning across a junction they cannot see.
There is no way it's 50/50 or in any part the cyclists fault.
cay said:
It's not a cycle lane, it's the road. Other traffic has stopped to give way to a turning vehicle, maybe the cyclist should also?
I have been cycling to work recently and if that collision happened I would see it as 50/50.
Agree, ( I cycle to work a lot in C London so feel qualified to comment).. I have been cycling to work recently and if that collision happened I would see it as 50/50.
The cyclist is filtering / undertaking here and should be aware of stopped traffic across T junctions. It would probably be recorded as 50/50 but if you are whizzing along in a non lane "filtering" on the inside, you get the right to save time doing it but you must yield when cars in the lane stop / slow down.
Otherwise no one gets to move and its madness to barrel past stationary traffic with no preparation that people will turn across at junctions.
If it was a blue painted cycle lane ... then its turning car beware. Obs they should be "aware" when turning right but as lots have said ... you can't turn right on a main road now if its drivers fault. Its get out of the car... cone off the road, drive into the right hand turning, park, pick up the cone and drive one otherwise to be "safe"
Edited by BluePurpleRed on Thursday 21st September 16:40
For me if a cycle wants to pass slower traffic it should do so on the right like all other vehicles are expected to do. To come from being concealed into a potential path of other motorists at a speed where the cyclist itself or a driver is unlikely to be able to stop is a pretty moronic thing to do.
If I was t boned by a cyclist in this situation, regardless of who the law says is at fault, I'd feel zero guilt.
You can only look out for cyclists you can actually see. If I wanted to torture myself by cycling through a busy city full of big hard heavy moving metal boxes, many of whom clearly have no concept of the Highway Code, then I'd take responsibility for making myself as visible as possible.
If I was t boned by a cyclist in this situation, regardless of who the law says is at fault, I'd feel zero guilt.
You can only look out for cyclists you can actually see. If I wanted to torture myself by cycling through a busy city full of big hard heavy moving metal boxes, many of whom clearly have no concept of the Highway Code, then I'd take responsibility for making myself as visible as possible.
2wheelsjimmy said:
No. The car should not be giving way. Before stopping the car should look in their mirrors (as per highway code), upon noticing said cyclist they would know it's not clear and not give way.
The other car should not be turning across a junction they cannot see.
There is no way it's 50/50 or in any part the cyclists fault.
This explains perfectly why you were involved in a similar collision.The other car should not be turning across a junction they cannot see.
There is no way it's 50/50 or in any part the cyclists fault.
PorkFan said:
For me if a cycle wants to pass slower traffic it should do so on the right like all other vehicles are expected to do. To come from being concealed into a potential path of other motorists at a speed where the cyclist itself or a driver is unlikely to be able to stop is a pretty moronic thing to do.
If I was t boned by a cyclist in this situation, regardless of who the law says is at fault, I'd feel zero guilt.
Issue is, cycle infrastructure is built pushing cyclist to the left, at the kerb. So to then force them out into the middle isn't practical or habit.If I was t boned by a cyclist in this situation, regardless of who the law says is at fault, I'd feel zero guilt.
It's pretty sad you'd feel zero guilt. Cyclists and pedestrians are vulnerable road users, and other road users have a moral responsibility to look out for them.
2wheelsjimmy said:
Please can you elaborate on your complete speculation?
I was in a cycle lane, and a car pulled across.
Uh, you said earlier you were the 'victim' of a similar incident.I was in a cycle lane, and a car pulled across.
If it was a cycle lane maybe a bit different, having said that I still wouldn't barrel along when there are gaps in the traffic and cars turning probably can't see you. Are they supposed to wait forever, or until all the traffic has gone? The shouldn't just drive into you but even edging out by the time they see you your path could already be impeded.
PorkFan said:
For me if a cycle wants to pass slower traffic it should do so on the right like all other vehicles are expected to do. To come from being concealed into a potential path of other motorists at a speed where the cyclist itself or a driver is unlikely to be able to stop is a pretty moronic thing to do.
If I was t boned by a cyclist in this situation, regardless of who the law says is at fault, I'd feel zero guilt.
You can only look out for cyclists you can actually see. If I wanted to torture myself by cycling through a busy city full of big hard heavy moving metal boxes, many of whom clearly have no concept of the Highway Code, then I'd take responsibility for making myself as visible as possible.
And if it was a child you hit?If I was t boned by a cyclist in this situation, regardless of who the law says is at fault, I'd feel zero guilt.
You can only look out for cyclists you can actually see. If I wanted to torture myself by cycling through a busy city full of big hard heavy moving metal boxes, many of whom clearly have no concept of the Highway Code, then I'd take responsibility for making myself as visible as possible.
Your the one who has no concept of the HC, I suggest you read up fast. Your a danger to other road users.
Hmm, technically its the car drivers fault but I think some blame, as a cyclist myself lies with the cyclist, I would be thinking
"Aye Aye junction coming up and what happens at junctions, people turn across oncoming traffic ! "
So, best use a little circumspection, be ready with the brakes, slow down a bit and watch for cars lunging in and out, as they may not see me or give a flying toss, and, guess who comes off worse at 18 mph into the side of a Picasso, well it isnt the Picasso that gets yet another dent and a big snotty splat on the window.
One thing cyclists all need to realise is you can be right, but dead or in serious fking agony with your limbs pointing at jaunty angles, the stakes are higher for cyclists than drivers, that is a truism, it cant be any other way on a 20 pound metal thing with two wheels and the squish organic bit exposed, versus an armored metal thing weighing a hundred times more with the delicate meat sacks safely ensconced inside wondering what that thud was.
Most drivers arent actually actively aggressive, or even ambivalent, we need to give them a bit of help and vice versa, there are written rules and then there is common sense, you can quote the Highway Code as much as you like and you need to be aware of it, but also, apply common sense and realise you are fragile, even the cheapest, worst built car available is a million times less fragile than your personage.
So, forget your Strava segment and also remember, you are on a bike, if you were in that much of a fking hurry, use another mode of transport, you can afford to lose momentum in the name of avoiding concussion, compound fractures and the worst thing, breaking your bike !
"Aye Aye junction coming up and what happens at junctions, people turn across oncoming traffic ! "
So, best use a little circumspection, be ready with the brakes, slow down a bit and watch for cars lunging in and out, as they may not see me or give a flying toss, and, guess who comes off worse at 18 mph into the side of a Picasso, well it isnt the Picasso that gets yet another dent and a big snotty splat on the window.
One thing cyclists all need to realise is you can be right, but dead or in serious f
king agony with your limbs pointing at jaunty angles, the stakes are higher for cyclists than drivers, that is a truism, it cant be any other way on a 20 pound metal thing with two wheels and the squish organic bit exposed, versus an armored metal thing weighing a hundred times more with the delicate meat sacks safely ensconced inside wondering what that thud was.Most drivers arent actually actively aggressive, or even ambivalent, we need to give them a bit of help and vice versa, there are written rules and then there is common sense, you can quote the Highway Code as much as you like and you need to be aware of it, but also, apply common sense and realise you are fragile, even the cheapest, worst built car available is a million times less fragile than your personage.
So, forget your Strava segment and also remember, you are on a bike, if you were in that much of a f
king hurry, use another mode of transport, you can afford to lose momentum in the name of avoiding concussion, compound fractures and the worst thing, breaking your bike !cay said:
Uh, you said earlier you were the 'victim' of a similar incident.
If it was a cycle lane maybe a bit different, having said that I still wouldn't barrel along when there are gaps in the traffic and cars turning probably can't see you. Are they supposed to wait forever, or until all the traffic has gone? The shouldn't just drive into you but even edging out by the time they see you your path could already be impeded.
Yes, you implied it was my fault. It wasn't. I slowed down as I saw the car indicating and waiting to tun, but just as I passed through the junction it hooked across into me and I was on the bonnet. If it was a cycle lane maybe a bit different, having said that I still wouldn't barrel along when there are gaps in the traffic and cars turning probably can't see you. Are they supposed to wait forever, or until all the traffic has gone? The shouldn't just drive into you but even edging out by the time they see you your path could already be impeded.
Again, I wasn't 'barreling' along, I was doing around 10mph.
I do agree, a car shouldn't have to wait for ever, but it's an issue with the infrastructure provided, not the cyclist or driver. Without traffic lights, or roundabout, it's the cyclists priority, and the drivers issue to wait.
J4CKO said:
Hmm, technically its the car drivers fault but I think some blame, as a cyclist myself lies with the cyclist, I would be thinking
"Aye Aye junction coming up and what happens at junctions, people turn across oncoming traffic ! "
So, best use a little circumspection, be ready with the brakes, slow down a bit and watch for cars lunging in and out, as they may not see me or give a flying toss, and, guess who comes off worse at 18 mph into the side of a Picasso, well it isnt the Picasso that gets yet another dent and a big snotty splat on the window.
One thing cyclists all need to realise is you can be right, but dead or in serious fking agony with your limbs pointing at jaunty angles, the stakes are higher for cyclists than drivers, that is a truism, it cant be any other way on a 20 pound metal thing with two wheels and the squish organic bit exposed, versus an armored metal thing weighing a hundred times more with the delicate meat sacks safely ensconced inside wondering what that thud was.
Most drivers arent actually actively aggressive, or even ambivalent, we need to give them a bit of help and vice versa, there are written rules and then there is common sense, you can quote the Highway Code as much as you like and you need to be aware of it, but also, apply common sense and realise you are fragile, even the cheapest, worst built car available is a million times less fragile than your personage.
So, forget your Strava segment and also remember, you are on a bike, if you were in that much of a fking hurry, use another mode of transport, you can afford to lose momentum in the name of avoiding concussion, compound fractures and the worst thing, breaking your bike !
Nice post, that sums up my point of view!"Aye Aye junction coming up and what happens at junctions, people turn across oncoming traffic ! "
So, best use a little circumspection, be ready with the brakes, slow down a bit and watch for cars lunging in and out, as they may not see me or give a flying toss, and, guess who comes off worse at 18 mph into the side of a Picasso, well it isnt the Picasso that gets yet another dent and a big snotty splat on the window.
One thing cyclists all need to realise is you can be right, but dead or in serious f
king agony with your limbs pointing at jaunty angles, the stakes are higher for cyclists than drivers, that is a truism, it cant be any other way on a 20 pound metal thing with two wheels and the squish organic bit exposed, versus an armored metal thing weighing a hundred times more with the delicate meat sacks safely ensconced inside wondering what that thud was.Most drivers arent actually actively aggressive, or even ambivalent, we need to give them a bit of help and vice versa, there are written rules and then there is common sense, you can quote the Highway Code as much as you like and you need to be aware of it, but also, apply common sense and realise you are fragile, even the cheapest, worst built car available is a million times less fragile than your personage.
So, forget your Strava segment and also remember, you are on a bike, if you were in that much of a f
king hurry, use another mode of transport, you can afford to lose momentum in the name of avoiding concussion, compound fractures and the worst thing, breaking your bike !Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff