How much space needed for cyclist coming opposite way.

How much space needed for cyclist coming opposite way.

Author
Discussion

FiF

Original Poster:

43,960 posts

250 months

Friday 22nd September 2017
quotequote all
Scenario I have is approaching a T junction, intending to turn left. On the immediate lead up to the junction there are marked parking spaces on the left, and usually cars in those spaces, it's near the Co-Op. On the road are those little cycle logos, ie not a 'proper' cycle lane but advice route used by cycles etc.

So cars approaching the junction have to straddle the white line to pass the parked vehicles.

Every day there's one of those who thinks he's on the Tour de Co-Ops who approaches the T from the right, turns into the road, at a pace and line that puts him into direct conflict with anyone who already happens to be passing the parked vehicles. He's not done it to me yet, as if I'm out there, immediately stop as seen his behaviour to others, but if you don't stop, he shouts and takes a swipe at your door mirror. Utter cock frankly.

Clearly the correct thing would be the removal of the parking spaces, or at least move them further back from the junction.

Incidentally, only censure I have had from this guy is on another local road, 20mph limit, speed pillows. In the middle of my side to straddle the pillow, matey decides to swerve, ride in the gap between pillows in the middle of road, shouts, nearly falls off in his fury. Will admit a titter ran round the audience.

But serious question to you lycristas, we've heard the 1.5m gap advice, I was trained to picture them laid out sideways and ensure you wouldn't run over their head when overtaking. Same clearances when opposing direction of travel, or?

This guy clearly isn't doing cyclists any favours but included just for the what a dick factor.

AH33

2,066 posts

134 months

Friday 22nd September 2017
quotequote all
For him? An inch?

Johnnytheboy

24,498 posts

185 months

Friday 22nd September 2017
quotequote all
I'd be interested to know the rule on this as I encounter the same cyclist a lot on my morning commute on a lane about 1.5 cars wide. As he invariably cycles straight past any passing place between us as we head towards each other, I assume he's comfortable to be be passed quite closely, but the look he usually gives me makes me think otherwise!

Toltec

7,159 posts

222 months

Friday 22nd September 2017
quotequote all
Johnnytheboy said:
I'd be interested to know the rule on this as I encounter the same cyclist a lot on my morning commute on a lane about 1.5 cars wide. As he invariably cycles straight past any passing place between us as we head towards each other, I assume he's comfortable to be be passed quite closely, but the look he usually gives me makes me think otherwise!
He is probably thinking that he can use the road without having to straddle the centre line so you should be the one giving way.

Similar to you passing parked cars on your side when there are none on the other side, you should be the one giving way.

shost

825 posts

142 months

Friday 22nd September 2017
quotequote all
Ideally same gap if coming opposite way. But if you are already passing cars on road he turns into then he should stop or proceed with caution.

Personally I'd just want cars to slow down a bit if the roles were reversed and I there first.

One thing they don't yet teach is the larger the speed diferential the bigger the gap should be. I've no problem with slow traffic passing a bit close if its narrow. But same gap on a NSL would be terryfying.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Friday 22nd September 2017
quotequote all
He seems like a dick. With that sort of attitude, I hope he doesn't have a car.

If he doesn't want cars to come the opposite way through narrow gaps, he needs to position his bike so that it is obviously one at a time, and be prepared to stop and give way in the same way that he would if he was driving a car. Same way that you would if you were driving through a gap that you might theoretically get two cars through but would probably lose you a wing mirror.

Evanivitch

19,802 posts

121 months

Friday 22nd September 2017
quotequote all
So his side of the road is clear, and he can proceed without crossing the central line?

And your side is partially blocked, and you have to straddle the central line?

You yield to him.

SantaBarbara

3,244 posts

107 months

Friday 22nd September 2017
quotequote all
It is cyclists like that who need to go on Speed Awareness Courses

Integroo

11,574 posts

84 months

Friday 22nd September 2017
quotequote all
Evanivitch said:
So his side of the road is clear, and he can proceed without crossing the central line?

And your side is partially blocked, and you have to straddle the central line?

You yield to him.
This.

hman

7,487 posts

193 months

Friday 22nd September 2017
quotequote all
Sounds like its only a matter of time before he has a car/bicycle interface.

I reckon the driver of the car will be un-injured but he will be - and his bike will be toast.

Darwin rules apply.

shakotan

10,679 posts

195 months

Friday 22nd September 2017
quotequote all
Integroo said:
Evanivitch said:
So his side of the road is clear, and he can proceed without crossing the central line?

And your side is partially blocked, and you have to straddle the central line?

You yield to him.
This.
You can't yield to him if you are mid-manoeuvre of passing the cars when he appears, which is the scenario posted in the OP.

In this instance he either waits for you to clear the parked cars or proceeds with caution through the narrowed lane. Either of which gives him no justification of being aggrieved.

FiF

Original Poster:

43,960 posts

250 months

Friday 22nd September 2017
quotequote all
Evanivitch said:
So his side of the road is clear, and he can proceed without crossing the central line?

And your side is partially blocked, and you have to straddle the central line?

You yield to him.
Ok, correct in first principles, but you have missed the detail in the situation.

Let's look at another scenario.

You enter a road and up ahead there is a long line of parked vehicles on the opposite side of the road. At the time you entered the road there is another vehicle travelling towards you, already on 'your' side of the road passing the parked vehicles. There are no spaces between the parked vehicles for the oncoming vehicle to return to his own side and wait in a 'passing place.' There is insufficient road width for two vehicles to pass each other alongside the parked vehicles.

Do you a) stop and wait for the oncoming vehicle to pass all the parked vehicles.
b) proceed and force the oncoming vehicle to reverse
c) something else.

If c) explain what you would do and why.

Thanks in advance.

Magic919

14,126 posts

200 months

Friday 22nd September 2017
quotequote all
Google Maps link?

Johnnytheboy

24,498 posts

185 months

Friday 22nd September 2017
quotequote all
Toltec said:
Johnnytheboy said:
I'd be interested to know the rule on this as I encounter the same cyclist a lot on my morning commute on a lane about 1.5 cars wide. As he invariably cycles straight past any passing place between us as we head towards each other, I assume he's comfortable to be be passed quite closely, but the look he usually gives me makes me think otherwise!
He is probably thinking that he can use the road without having to straddle the centre line so you should be the one giving way.

Similar to you passing parked cars on your side when there are none on the other side, you should be the one giving way.
As I said, it's a lane, this one in fact:



So if he shoots past a passing place, he's kind of lost the ability for me to give him more than half-a-car's width in total.

Xtravaganza

56 posts

78 months

Friday 22nd September 2017
quotequote all
This is just another case of cyclists vs cars, roads not designed and never were designed for the stupid levels of car traffic stupid new cyclists and terrible young drivers alike.

Evanivitch

19,802 posts

121 months

Friday 22nd September 2017
quotequote all
FiF said:
Evanivitch said:
So his side of the road is clear, and he can proceed without crossing the central line?

And your side is partially blocked, and you have to straddle the central line?

You yield to him.
Ok, correct in first principles, but you have missed the detail in the situation.

Let's look at another scenario.

You enter a road and up ahead there is a long line of parked vehicles on the opposite side of the road. At the time you entered the road there is another vehicle travelling towards you, already on 'your' side of the road passing the parked vehicles. There are no spaces between the parked vehicles for the oncoming vehicle to return to his own side and wait in a 'passing place.' There is insufficient road width for two vehicles to pass each other alongside the parked vehicles.

Do you a) stop and wait for the oncoming vehicle to pass all the parked vehicles.
b) proceed and force the oncoming vehicle to reverse
c) something else.

If c) explain what you would do and why.

Thanks in advance.
If you're straddling the central line, and his side is clear, then you stop and allow him to proceed in what remains of his lane if possible.
That's because he's a bike and noticeably smaller than a car.

If there was no room for him to pass, even when you've stopped and I assume tucked in as much as you can, then I would have expected him to stop and allow you to complete.

If he was a car, and then there was insufficient space to pass then I would expect him to wait whilst you completed your password of the static cars, because that is less risky than requiring you to reverse.

snobetter

1,145 posts

145 months

Friday 22nd September 2017
quotequote all
FiF said:
Scenario I have is approaching a T junction, intending to turn left. On the immediate lead up to the junction there are marked parking spaces on the left, and usually cars in those spaces, it's near the Co-Op. On the road are those little cycle logos, ie not a 'proper' cycle lane but advice route used by cycles etc.

So cars approaching the junction have to straddle the white line to pass the parked vehicles.

Every day there's one of those who thinks he's on the Tour de Co-Ops who approaches the T from the right, turns into the road, at a pace and line that puts him into direct conflict with anyone who already happens to be passing the parked vehicles. He's not done it to me yet, as if I'm out there, immediately stop as seen his behaviour to others, but if you don't stop, he shouts and takes a swipe at your door mirror. Utter cock frankly.

Clearly the correct thing would be the removal of the parking spaces, or at least move them further back from the junction.

Incidentally, only censure I have had from this guy is on another local road, 20mph limit, speed pillows. In the middle of my side to straddle the pillow, matey decides to swerve, ride in the gap between pillows in the middle of road, shouts, nearly falls off in his fury. Will admit a titter ran round the audience.

But serious question to you lycristas, we've heard the 1.5m gap advice, I was trained to picture them laid out sideways and ensure you wouldn't run over their head when overtaking. Same clearances when opposing direction of travel, or?

This guy clearly isn't doing cyclists any favours but included just for the what a dick factor.
What do you do in the same scenario with a car/lorry/bus/any vehicle using the road?

havoc

29,927 posts

234 months

Friday 22nd September 2017
quotequote all
Toltec said:
Johnnytheboy said:
I'd be interested to know the rule on this as I encounter the same cyclist a lot on my morning commute on a lane about 1.5 cars wide. As he invariably cycles straight past any passing place between us as we head towards each other, I assume he's comfortable to be be passed quite closely, but the look he usually gives me makes me think otherwise!
He is probably thinking that he can use the road without having to straddle the centre line so you should be the one giving way.

Similar to you passing parked cars on your side when there are none on the other side, you should be the one giving way.
If there is no dotted line then I believe there's no "side" to the road, so neither party automatically has right of way.

In the case above then it should be either:-
- whoever is closest to a passing place should stop and move in; or
- in the case of a noticeable incline, follow highway code rules regarding giving way on a slope.

FiF

Original Poster:

43,960 posts

250 months

Friday 22nd September 2017
quotequote all
Evanivitch said:
If you're straddling the central line, and his side is clear, then you stop and allow him to proceed in what remains of his lane if possible.
That's because he's a bike and noticeably smaller than a car.

If there was no room for him to pass, even when you've stopped and I assume tucked in as much as you can, then I would have expected him to stop and allow you to complete.

If he was a car, and then there was insufficient space to pass then I would expect him to wait whilst you completed your password of the static cars, because that is less risky than requiring you to reverse.
To clarify, there is imo sufficient room to continue to pass the parked vehicles and the cyclist to pass safely in the other direction, providing both are reasonable people.

Clearly my position in this case is that the other is not reasonable, so stop, but it brought the question of what is a reasonable clearance.

Evanivitch

19,802 posts

121 months

Friday 22nd September 2017
quotequote all
FiF said:
Evanivitch said:
If you're straddling the central line, and his side is clear, then you stop and allow him to proceed in what remains of his lane if possible.
That's because he's a bike and noticeably smaller than a car.

If there was no room for him to pass, even when you've stopped and I assume tucked in as much as you can, then I would have expected him to stop and allow you to complete.

If he was a car, and then there was insufficient space to pass then I would expect him to wait whilst you completed your password of the static cars, because that is less risky than requiring you to reverse.
To clarify, there is imo sufficient room to continue to pass the parked vehicles and the cyclist to pass safely in the other direction, providing both are reasonable people.

Clearly my position in this case is that the other is not reasonable, so stop, but it brought the question of what is a reasonable clearance.
Sufficient clearance depends on way too many things, not least the condition and camber of the road, as well as weather conditions and the competence.

You giving him 1.5m whilst you're already straddling the central line doesn't necessarily give him a lot of space to keep away from whatever horrors sit in the gutter.