What will happen to Vauxhall's lineup now no GM??

[SantaBarbara]

Look what happened to Rootes group at Ryton on Dunsmore

[Plate spinner]

300bhp/ton said:

Plate spinner said:

Truckosaurus said:

If they were clever they could use Vauxhall as a luxury brand (link it too other upmarket British brands - Range Rover, Jag, Bentley, Rolls etc).

They'd have to be pretty damn clever to pull that off...

You and others are being rather mocking of this suggestion. But let's not forget SEAT and especially Skoda were once seen in far worse light than run of the mill Vauxhalls. Yet VAG have somehow transformed the images of those to make them trendy, even desirable to certain types.

What rational are you applying to say the same couldn't be done to Vauxhall?

Sure, anything's possible with enough time and money.

But it's a moot point, deciding to pitch Vauxhall as a premium brand won't happen. If it were a good / viable / profitable plan, it would have been done by now. There's more money in premium than mainstream.

[TooMany2cvs]

SantaBarbara said:

Look what happened to Rootes group at Ryton on Dunsmore

Absolutely.

Built in 1936 by Austin, taken over in the war as aircraft manufacturing, then
...Rootes for 20ish years.
...Chrysler Europe for 10 years.
...PSA for 26 years.

By the time it closed in 2006, it was simply too tiny to be economically viable - it was one-third the size of Ellesmere Port or Honda Swindon.

[300bhp/ton]

Nickbrapp said:

It's already anounced they will platform share. The new crossland X is just a Peugeot 2008 under the body, I suspect engines will follow as vauxhalls line up is pretty poor.

Expect the next gen insignia and 508 to share the platform too.

I wonder if some of the Vauxhall reliability issues stem from it being made it Britain. Does anyone buy a Vauxhall because they are made here? I wouldn't.

Are you sure Vauxhalls are made in Britain? You might want to check that up on a per car model basis

[Yipper]

telecat said:

Personally I wouldn't touch any PSA product with a Bargepole. The styling is dire and the reliability just does not seem to be that good. I "Rate" Vauxhall and Opel much higher and hopefully PSA will not drag them down!

Peugeot, Citroën and Vauxhall today all have *higher* reliability ratings than VW, BMW, MB, Audi and Porsche.

The quality of Vauxhall cars has improved significantly in the past 5 years.

There is a lot of prejudice and self-loathing on PH just because something is mass-market. It is a bit sad.

[TooMany2cvs]

300bhp/ton said:

Are you sure Vauxhalls are made in Britain? You might want to check that up on a per car model basis

Astra - almost certain. Low-roof Vivaro - yup.

Anything else...? Nah...

But you try convincing your Daily Mail-reading Grandad that Vauxhall and Ford aren't "British as Roast Beef"...

[jamiebae]

Vauxhall/Opel allows Peugeot to become a bit more edgey and stylish, Citroen will be priced below the other brands and sell on individuality, while Opel/VX will churn out dreary mass-market gruel based on the same platform. Look at the C3 Aircross, 2008 and Crossland X as an example, the Opel/VX version is plain vanilla designed not to offend anyone, which lets PSA push the Peugeot brand upmarket and try to chase VW without losing sales from the group.

Your average Opel/VX buyer across Europe is usually 'lower class' and unlikely to be considering something like a Peugeot 3008 as they'd think it's too unusual so the deal is a pretty good fit. In the UK they sell lots of cars on Motability, a big chunk of stuff to rental companies and large fleets, and the rest goes to private buyers in medium sized towns where there's always been a VX dealer. As part of PSA they can continue to effectively service this market, but without the R&D costs of developing their own platforms and engines.

[gazza285]

jamiebae said:

Vauxhall/Opel allows Peugeot to become a bit more edgey and stylish, Citroen will be priced below the other brands and sell on individuality, while Opel/VX will churn out dreary mass-market gruel based on the same platform.

I'd rather Citroen went back to producing massive weird things, like the original DS, the CX, or the SM, rather than cheap tat. Unless it is quirky cheap tat, like the 2CV...

[Jimmy Recard]

TooMany2cvs said:

Astra - almost certain. Low-roof Vivaro - yup.

Anything else...? Nah...

But you try convincing your Daily Mail-reading Grandad that Vauxhall and Ford aren't "British as Roast Beef"...

And that's where GM made an enormous triumph with the Vauxhall brand. GM built Vauxhall into a massive brand in the UK on the back of that.

My grandad had a Cavalier many years ago, he thought of it as a British car (I don't know where his particular car was built) and that is (I think), the foundation of Vauxhall's popularity today in the UK, although no one I know thinks of it as particularly British.

To the average buyer, Vauxhall would be below VW but on par with Ford. Probably higher than Peugeot or Renault, judging by relative sales figures.

Here, Ford certainly has a better image.

[vsonix]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Mmmm imagine the 2020 Super Snipe

[Glasgowrob]

be interesting to see Vauxhall/opel start using the psa engines,

there fitted in ruddy everything already anyway.

[300bhp/ton]

TooMany2cvs said:

300bhp/ton said:

Are you sure Vauxhalls are made in Britain? You might want to check that up on a per car model basis

Astra - almost certain. Low-roof Vivaro - yup.

Anything else...? Nah...

But you try convincing your Daily Mail-reading Grandad that Vauxhall and Ford aren't "British as Roast Beef"...

Try it on here more like

How many blinkered fanboys/ill informed think Ford is British and not American. Answer a lot.

[Davie]

designforlife said:

couldn't care less, sh*t dull brand with sh*t dull cars.

And i've had the misfortune of owning one before I knew better.

Cool, what did you have... Lotus Carlton, VX220 Turbo, Monaro VXR or was it something older like a Chevette HSR or Vectra ST200?

Or was it a base model Mk4 Astra Envoy 1.7D?

[Fast Bug]

TooMany2cvs said:

Astra - almost certain. Low-roof Vivaro - yup.

Anything else...? Nah...

But you try convincing your Daily Mail-reading Grandad that Vauxhall and Ford aren't "British as Roast Beef"...

The Vivaro is a Renault product, I don't see the agreement lasting too long when PSA take over

[Jimmy Recard]

300bhp/ton said:

Try it on here more like

How many blinkered fanboys/ill informed think Ford is British and not American. Answer a lot.

Huh?

Judging by Vauxhall’s market share in the UK, it was quite a successful tactic.

I suggest that if Opel had market share across Europe the same as Vauxhall’s market share here, GM would not have wanted to sell up

[jamiebae]

Davie said:

Cool, what did you have... Lotus Carlton, VX220 Turbo, Monaro VXR or was it something older like a Chevette HSR or Vectra ST200?

Or was it a base model Mk4 Astra Envoy 1.7D?

Interestingly, the first three of your suggestions aren't really Vauxhall at all, the others two are ancient history now. That's like me singing the praises of Proton's current range on the basis that the Satria GTI was a great car, or recommending someone buy a Dodge Caliber because the Viper did well at Le Mans.

[TooMany2cvs]

Fast Bug said:

The Vivaro is a Renault product, I don't see the agreement lasting too long when PSA take over

I suspect it'd cost too much to bop the Luton contract on the head early, and there's no point in refitting Luton for the Dispatch/Jumpy/ProAce for a couple of years parallel production.

The highroof can't be built at Luton - the ceilings are too low... so it's built by Renault.
I suspect that'll be an early casualty, unless it happens to be lucrative (I doubt it - when did you last see one?).

[Fast Bug]

TooMany2cvs said:

Fast Bug said:

The Vivaro is a Renault product, I don't see the agreement lasting too long when PSA take over

I suspect it'd cost too much to bop the Luton contract on the head early, and there's no point in refitting Luton for the Dispatch/Jumpy/ProAce for a couple of years parallel production.

The highroof can't be built at Luton - the ceilings are too low... so it's built by Renault.
I suspect that'll be an early casualty, unless it happens to be lucrative (I doubt it - when did you last see one?).

They don't make the minibuses either from memory. And I don't think they'd run parallel factories for the Dispatch et al. I think Luton would build something else. Or be closed down.

[dazwalsh]

I think it's a good move for Vauxhall, the replacement for the utterly woeful Antara, the grandland x is (apart from the gash name) a good looking motor in my opinion. Already off to a good start.

In my own previous experience the psa engines are better too.

[rodericb]

TooMany2cvs said:

I doubt that's included, as it's GM Global's property - it's not really needed, either, with PSA's EMP2 platform.

The first stages of the co-operation are already in the showrooms. Crossland X is coming soon as C3 Aircross. Then the 3008's spawning the DS 7, C5 Aircross - and Grandland X.

Citroen have just announced there'll be another C5 in 2020 - I'll bet you it's EMP2-based, with DS 5/508/Insignia replacements coming off it, too.

The interesting thing is what's going to happen with engines in the short term - remember, Opel still use Fiat-derived diesels, while PSA are in bed with Ford.
I reckon the expiry of the Luton manufacturing contract in 2020 will also see that closed, and the Vivaro dropped for a Dispatch/Jumpy/ProAce sibling.

Remember, PSA and Opel have been working together for many years, with GM owning 7% of PSA between early 2012 and the end of 2013. At that stage, there was talk of the next Corsa being based on the C3, and built alongside it in France.

Thanks, EMP2 was the missing link. I wasn't sure about the access to GM's IP (E2XX) and I thought I'd read something along the lines that the current models using GM IP would have that IP phased out through the regular update process.