Ask a car salesman anything...anything at all.

[Sheepshanks]

HTP99 said:

.....however it was very skewed to model mix, so he had to sell x mount of each model in any given period, if he didn't hit the correct mix then he was only paid £50 per unit.

That sounds really stupid. With the best will in the world it's going to lead to salespeople being disinterested if the customer doesn't happen to want the model the salesperson needs to sell.

[jdw100]

renmure said:

mon the fish said:

I've always wondered how the salary commission model works for low-volume stuff, say Lamborghini/Ferrari. I'm not asking anyone here to divulge how much they're paid, but we all have a rough idea - 25% of your take home pay is basic, the rest is sales commission, am I in the ballpark?

If you're selling Ford/Vauxhall/Renault or whatever, you make lots of commission due to volume, but how are the high-end salesmen paid - do they get a higher basic to start with, or is just huge commission on each sale (I know for example the only Ferrari dealer in Scotland sells 40 cars a year - that's not a huge volume of commission across the sales team)?

How much more as a % would a Ferrari salesman earn per year than say a Ford salesman? And how easy is it to move from being a Ford salesman to a Ferrari salesman?

I organised a meet at the airfield for the local Ferrari Owners Club a few years ago and the junior (in his mid 30s tho) Ferrari / Maserati salesman came along in a demo car to presumably show a bit of Dealer presence. We were chatting for about 30 mins when I took him for a flight and he was coy about figures (I wasn't actually asking, more joking that there seemed to be some perks in terms of his runaround car) but he said I would be surprised to hear his basic salary started with a 1 and he would be extremely lucky to double that.

a. I was surprised.
b. He isn't there anymore

Sorry, are you saying his basic was £100,000 but he’d be very lucky to get up to £200,000 with bonus?

[Dan W.]

Sheepshanks said:

That sounds really stupid. With the best will in the world it's going to lead to salespeople being disinterested if the customer doesn't happen to want the model the salesperson needs to sell.

Lucky git, I Know of a lot of places where they only get about £30 a unit, wonder why they even bother doing the job for what some of them take home.

[HTP99]

Sheepshanks said:

HTP99 said:

.....however it was very skewed to model mix, so he had to sell x mount of each model in any given period, if he didn't hit the correct mix then he was only paid £50 per unit.

That sounds really stupid. With the best will in the world it's going to lead to salespeople being disinterested if the customer doesn't happen to want the model the salesperson needs to sell.

Well if he can't get them the car as the dealership has fulfilled their allocation of 911's for the next 9 months then what do you suggest he does?

You hear of it her on PH, particularly with Landrover, someone goes in to ask about a Sport but gets strong armed onto looking at a Discovery Sport because all of their allocation for the year is full but there are still Discovery Sport spaces to use up.

Personally I couldn't deal with that sales environment, I just want to get on and sell everything and apart from the occasional constraint which may mean ordering is closed on a particular spec or engine which may mean a 4m lead time, I can sell everything in the brochure.

Edited by HTP99 on Friday 24th November 15:19

[Sheepshanks]

renmure said:

I organised a meet at the airfield for the local Ferrari Owners Club a few years ago and the junior (in his mid 30s tho) Ferrari / Maserati salesman came along in a demo car to presumably show a bit of Dealer presence. We were chatting for about 30 mins when I took him for a flight and he was coy about figures (I wasn't actually asking, more joking that there seemed to be some perks in terms of his runaround car) but he said I would be surprised to hear his basic salary started with a 1 and he would be extremely lucky to double that.

a. I was surprised.
b. He isn't there anymore

I could be way off here, but I'd have thought that selling Ferraris you can't just sit in the showroom waiting for the 'phone to ring. You'd have to do a lot of events (such as the one you organised) as well as networking with the right kind of people. The latter is probably pretty tough for a low-paid salesman though.

On salaries generally, there was a salesman at Mercedes Manchester who got done for pocketing people deposits. He was stated as earning £70K/yr, as if that was pretty normal.

[Fast Bug]

HTP99 said:

I don't know the structure totally and I'm sure it varies between company's, however an ex colleague sold Porsche for a while, he said he was paid an initial amount on ordertake and then paid again on delivery, however it was very skewed to model mix, so he had to sell x mount of each model in any given period, if he didn't hit the correct mix then he was only paid £50 per unit.

He also said that earnings weren't vastly greater than if he worked in a busy dealership which sold Ford, for example.

Porsche target dealers with a model mix of cars, luckily the dealership I was at didn't break our target down that much. As a dealership we always got to the right model mix at the end of the year one way or the other. We also got a token amount on order, then the balance of commission after delivery as some of the lead times were quite long on certain models.

mon the fish said:

but I was at a dealer evening event where I briefly met the salesmen - they spent most of their time fawning over their 'preferred' clients that they barely spoke to me.

Product launch and dealer event evenings are quite hard work as your regular customer base is invited, and you need to spend time with them as they're the guys that order numerous cars and pay your mortgage. Usually everyone that is invited is either a) already a customer or b) a prospect that has been invited by a sales person. Either way if the sales person doesn't know you, they assume you're someone else's customer or prospect.

mon the fish said:

they were young boyband-lookalikes, clearly not industry experienced salesmen; but as they can't sell any more than what the factory already allocate (3 cars per month) I wondered how the commission model worked for them - that's pretty much 1 car per salesman per month.

Ignoring the fact that you don't fall out of the Carphone Warehouse in to selling Ferrari... You're forgetting used stock and demos, so whilst new sales units are low there would be a good turn of used stock

mon the fish said:

I at least expected to be spoken to, find out a bit about me and then be ignored!

[Sheepshanks]

HTP99 said:

Well if he can't get them the car as the dealership has fulfilled their allocation of 911's for the next 9 months then what do you suggest he does?

If it's down to allocation then fair enough - you can't sell what you haven't got. But it was suggested that he'd be penalised for selling the wrong mix. I gather some places penalise for not enough finance penetration etc.

[HTP99]

Sheepshanks said:

HTP99 said:

Well if he can't get them the car as the dealership has fulfilled their allocation of 911's for the next 9 months then what do you suggest he does?

If it's down to allocation then fair enough - you can't sell what you haven't got. But it was suggested that he'd be penalised for selling the wrong mix. I gather some places penalise for not enough finance penetration etc.

He was penalised for selling the wrong mix, I guess this is so your sales guys work smarter and network better.

Some places have very complicated commission structures all based around penetration of finance, GAP, paint protection etc and if you do under achieve then you won't be paid as much on these products.

I know of salesmen who are "fined" for a poor CS scoring; poor as in he only received a "satisfactory" instead of "outstanding" comment, we aren't penalised, however a score of 8/10 is a fail in the eyes of our manufacturer, it has to be 9/10 at least, this can affect our dealership bonus payment if the average isn't high enough.

[Sheepshanks]

HTP99 said:

I know of salesmen who are "fined" for a poor CS scoring; poor as in he only received a "satisfactory" instead of "outstanding" comment, we aren't penalised, however a score of 8/10 is a fail in the eyes of our manufacturer, it has to be 9/10 at least, this can affect our dealership bonus payment if the average isn't high enough.

Yet calling and saying "before I fill in the survey can you sort x out"? doesn't spur dealers (sales or service) into action.

[mon the fish]

Fast Bug said:

Ignoring the fact that you don't fall out of the Carphone Warehouse in to selling Ferrari... You're forgetting used stock and demos, so whilst new sales units are low there would be a good turn of used stock

And that's why I expected them to speak to me - to punt some of the used stock. But no!

It certainly seems to be more of a relationship-building thing, which is why I was wondering how big the commission is on say a new 488 as there's a lot more time invested in the whole transaction than selling a Mondeo for example - possibly regular contact over the whole ownership term, before they come back to buy the latest model

[irc]

HTP99 said:

it has to be 9/10 at least, this can affect our dealership bonus payment if the average isn't high enough.

That will be why the salesman my wife and I bought her car from called us post sale to ask why we had given a poor score.

Two reasons - the promised set of mats weren't supplied (no big deal) - and the car was registered in my name not hers despite it being made clear that while I was paying it was her car.

Speaking of which she will be changing her car for a new or up to 18 month old car next year. She works part time and earn a low salary so may not qualify for finance.

We could just pay cash (no trade in) but as PCP deals are often better with manufacturer contributions can she sign a deal with me as guarantor?

If we are paying cash - as this seems to earn little for the salesman when is the best time to mention this.

[POORCARDEALER]

mon the fish said:

mon the fish said:

I've always wondered how the salary commission model works for low-volume stuff, say Lamborghini/Ferrari. I'm not asking anyone here to divulge how much they're paid, but we all have a rough idea - 25% of your take home pay is basic, the rest is sales commission, am I in the ballpark?

If you're selling Ford/Vauxhall/Renault or whatever, you make lots of commission due to volume, but how are the high-end salesmen paid - do they get a higher basic to start with, or is just huge commission on each sale (I know for example the only Ferrari dealer in Scotland sells 40 cars a year - that's not a huge volume of commission across the sales team)?

How much more as a % would a Ferrari salesman earn per year than say a Ford salesman? And how easy is it to move from being a Ford salesman to a Ferrari salesman?

Any thoughts on this guys?

I was on 15% of net profit per car on used ferrari if i met monthly target.....that arrangement lasted a year as i earned a fortune,,,(20 years ago)

[Dan W.]

irc said:

That will be why the salesman my wife and I bought her car from called us post sale to ask why we had given a poor score.

Two reasons - the promised set of mats weren't supplied (no big deal) - and the car was registered in my name not hers despite it being made clear that while I was paying it was her car.

Speaking of which she will be changing her car for a new or up to 18 month old car next year. She works part time and earn a low salary so may not qualify for finance.

We could just pay cash (no trade in) but as PCP deals are often better with manufacturer contributions can she sign a deal with me as guarantor?

If we are paying cash - as this seems to earn little for the salesman when is the best time to mention this.

Those two reasons are valid enough to give him a poor score. if I had done that to a customer I would fully expect a poor score back.

She could possibly sign this with you as a guarantor but its not down to the salesman, the finance company will make that judgement and it seems to becoming rarer these days.

[valiant]

irc said:

That will be why the salesman my wife and I bought her car from called us post sale to ask why we had given a poor score.

Two reasons - the promised set of mats weren't supplied (no big deal) - and the car was registered in my name not hers despite it being made clear that while I was paying it was her car.

Speaking of which she will be changing her car for a new or up to 18 month old car next year. She works part time and earn a low salary so may not qualify for finance.

We could just pay cash (no trade in) but as PCP deals are often better with manufacturer contributions can she sign a deal with me as guarantor?

If we are paying cash - as this seems to earn little for the salesman when is the best time to mention this.

Why not get the finance in your name to gain the finance contribution and then settle/withdraw afterwards with cash.

[Sheepshanks]

irc said:

Speaking of which she will be changing her car for a new or up to 18 month old car next year. She works part time and earn a low salary so may not qualify for finance.

My PAYE salary is low but I didn't have any issues getting a PCP on a £24K Tiguan (just to get the deposit contribution). I've no idea what kind of checks are done but I wasn't asked my salary and I'm sure they didn't check with my employer.

[Dan W.]

Sheepshanks said:

My PAYE salary is low but I didn't have any issues getting a PCP on a £24K Tiguan (just to get the deposit contribution). I've no idea what kind of checks are done but I wasn't asked my salary and I'm sure they didn't check with my employer.

We have to ask certain questions now regarding finance.

how much you earn
if you have a mortgage
childcare costs
and a few other things.

everything is becoming a lot strict on who they lend money too which isn't a bad thing I suppose

already had a few customers declined because they don't earn enough.. even though their partner does or pays the bills finance company wont accept this anymore.

[renmure]

jdw100 said:

Sorry, are you saying his basic was £100,000 but he’d be very lucky to get up to £200,000 with bonus?

Nope. Under £20k and be very lucky to break £40k.

[Sheepshanks]

Dan W. said:

We have to ask certain questions now regarding finance.

how much you earn
if you have a mortgage
childcare costs
and a few other things.

everything is becoming a lot strict on who they lend money too which isn't a bad thing I suppose

already had a few customers declined because they don't earn enough.. even though their partner does or pays the bills finance company wont accept this anymore.

Is that pretty recent? I'm going back 2yrs. Was with VWFS. I didn't get asked any of those sort of questions.

[Dr Jekyll]

Dan W. said:

We have to ask certain questions now regarding finance.

how much you earn
if you have a mortgage
childcare costs
and a few other things.

everything is becoming a lot strict on who they lend money too which isn't a bad thing I suppose

already had a few customers declined because they don't earn enough.. even though their partner does or pays the bills finance company wont accept this anymore.

What kind of income/payments or salary/loan size ratio puts finance companies off these days?

[Dan W.]

Sheepshanks said:

Is that pretty recent? I'm going back 2yrs. Was with VWFS. I didn't get asked any of those sort of questions.

we use black horse finance and this has come in within the last 12 months and is getting very strict now