Ask a car salesman anything...anything at all.
Discussion
Wooda80 said:
You'll be the one stood by the card machine on a 20 minute call to Bombay trying to answer the security questions!
‘Referral B’‘REFERRAL B’
‘RE FER RAL BEE’
‘Oh for f
ks sake’‘REFERRAL B’
-hand phone to customer-
‘No. I can’t remember what my last direct debit was’
‘How much is my phone bill? I don’t know’
-hands phone back to dealer whilst muttering ‘I’m not racist, but....’ -
-10 mins later-
‘Ok thanks’
‘Your cards been declined, you need to go to your branch to sort it, well give you a lift’
Butter Face said:
You don’t have to, come in, check it over, transfer the money, drive away. S’not rocket science guv 
But you’re in a minority, most people are happy to transfer money, some before they have ever seen a car. There’s a certain amount of trust involved in buying and selling a car and I suppose it all depends on how much you trust the person you’re dealing with.
I’m happy to accept I’m in the minority. But almost all the cars I’ve bought over the last 15 years have been bought from dealers > 100 miles away, either online or over the phone with a deposit paid by card (debit or credit). So checking the car has never been the issue...it’s the taking possession of it. And I completely accept that there has to be trust; trouble is, if the dealer is going to fold it doesn’t matter how trustworthy or nice the person I’m dealing with is. Pay by debit card and at least there’s some protection in that I pay when I get the car. I guess if the dealer is happy work with a Faster Payment on the day of collection, or when the car is delivered, then fine But you’re in a minority, most people are happy to transfer money, some before they have ever seen a car. There’s a certain amount of trust involved in buying and selling a car and I suppose it all depends on how much you trust the person you’re dealing with.
Fast Bug said:
Can you register a car 4-5 weeks before it's arrived? I know I've had the odd vehicle registered whilst it was on a boat to the UK, but usually they have to be in the country before you can register a car
Our admin team can’t register a vehicle until it’s been allocated into our stock. We’ve never had a registration allocated to a vehicle 5 weeks before it’s arrived.Once a registration has been allocated my transaction manager can get the docs printed etc, and I can arrange for the customer to come in to sign docs, and give them the reg so they can get their insurance certificate over to me.
To be honest it’s rare that most orders have wait times that long anyway at the dealership I work at. We are pressured (by sales manager) into pushing customers into stock cars I.e cars that have already been built. A factory order is a last resort and my sales manager absolutely hates doing them. Everything is “a deal for the month”.
Even specialist vehicles like M cars can be done for the month as most stock cars have the popular options e.g comp pack, heads up display etc, and I guess that’s where the “sales” ability comes into play in being able to build value in the stock car as opposed to the factory order for the exact spec the customer wants.
It’s annoying for a salesman as you can’t really go into a month with deals already on the board.
Edited by I like Hands up deals on Sunday 25th March 21:29
Wooda80 said:
I'll refer you back to my earlier post about the size of the transaction, the size of the merchant fee payable and the margin in the product.
Card fees can vary between 0.3% and 1.5%, considerably more if we are talking Amex. This on a transaction where the net trading margin might only be 2 or 3%. So do you see now how you can easily wipe out a substantial amount of your profit by accepting the payment method? The grocery and even petrol retailers work on a larger trading margin and often lower merchant charges as their turnover is substantially higher.
The solutions to this could be:
1) Increase margin / reduce discount to absorb this. But how many customers will go somewhere else for 1 or 2% extra discount on a new car?
2) Pass on the costs to those customers who wish to pay this way ( now forbidden of course )
3) Have a sensible conversation with the customer to say "we can do this deal / offer you this discount but we would need payment by bank transfer please"
If you are selling 1000 new cars per year at an average profit ( before bonuses ) of £500pu but card charges are taking £200pu out of that ( say 1% of £20000 ) then can't you see the £200,000 per annum need for a solution? What would you do in your business?
The reality of a sample of 1000s ( mine and Dan's experience combined ) is that customers understand the reasons and are happy to accommodate the dealer's request.
Now that Bank Transfers are so easy to execute then really what's the problem? You'll be the one stood by the card machine on a 20 minute call to Bombay trying to answer the security questions!
Card fees are capped at 0.3% for VISA and MasterCard credit cards, and 0.2% for debit. How can it range up to 1.5% for those? Card fees can vary between 0.3% and 1.5%, considerably more if we are talking Amex. This on a transaction where the net trading margin might only be 2 or 3%. So do you see now how you can easily wipe out a substantial amount of your profit by accepting the payment method? The grocery and even petrol retailers work on a larger trading margin and often lower merchant charges as their turnover is substantially higher.
The solutions to this could be:
1) Increase margin / reduce discount to absorb this. But how many customers will go somewhere else for 1 or 2% extra discount on a new car?
2) Pass on the costs to those customers who wish to pay this way ( now forbidden of course )
3) Have a sensible conversation with the customer to say "we can do this deal / offer you this discount but we would need payment by bank transfer please"
If you are selling 1000 new cars per year at an average profit ( before bonuses ) of £500pu but card charges are taking £200pu out of that ( say 1% of £20000 ) then can't you see the £200,000 per annum need for a solution? What would you do in your business?
The reality of a sample of 1000s ( mine and Dan's experience combined ) is that customers understand the reasons and are happy to accommodate the dealer's request.
Now that Bank Transfers are so easy to execute then really what's the problem? You'll be the one stood by the card machine on a 20 minute call to Bombay trying to answer the security questions!
kharma45 said:
Card fees are capped at 0.3% for VISA and MasterCard credit cards, and 0.2% for debit.
What makes you think that? US link, but you'll see the typical picture. https://www.valuepenguin.com/what-credit-card-proc...
As a buyer I'd prefer deposit by CC for the protection it offers if things go tits-up.
For balance payment, debit card has a couple of advantages over bank transfer: It's pretty much error-free - if the buyer has to enter your sortcode and details manually there's massive scope for a very expensive cockup. Second, FPS payments are fastER, but can still take hours to arrive. Do you keep the customer hanging around until the money's showing in your account?
silentbrown said:
What makes you think that? US link, but you'll see the typical picture.
https://www.valuepenguin.com/what-credit-card-proc...
As a buyer I'd prefer deposit by CC for the protection it offers if things go tits-up.
For balance payment, debit card has a couple of advantages over bank transfer: It's pretty much error-free - if the buyer has to enter your sortcode and details manually there's massive scope for a very expensive cockup. Second, FPS payments are fastER, but can still take hours to arrive. Do you keep the customer hanging around until the money's showing in your account?
The EU capped interchange rates about a year and a half ago. If you want the full texthttps://www.valuepenguin.com/what-credit-card-proc...
As a buyer I'd prefer deposit by CC for the protection it offers if things go tits-up.
For balance payment, debit card has a couple of advantages over bank transfer: It's pretty much error-free - if the buyer has to enter your sortcode and details manually there's massive scope for a very expensive cockup. Second, FPS payments are fastER, but can still take hours to arrive. Do you keep the customer hanging around until the money's showing in your account?
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?ur...
but it’s 0.3% for credit cards and 0.2% for debit
AMEX are also affected for their branded cards like the BA one, it’s capped at 0.3%. The Gold, Platinum etc. aren’t affected.
kharma45 said:
The EU capped interchange rates about a year and a half ago. If you want the full text
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?ur...
but it’s 0.3% for credit cards and 0.2% for debit
The charges the banks charge the retailer for accepting credit cards are well over the figures you’ve quoted .https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?ur...
but it’s 0.3% for credit cards and 0.2% for debit
More so if the credit cards are supplied to businesses.
Buster73 said:
The charges the banks charge the retailer for accepting credit cards are well over the figures you’ve quoted .
More so if the credit cards are supplied to businesses.
Ah, I haven't factored in the Merchant Service Charge part of the diagram - http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-16-2162_...More so if the credit cards are supplied to businesses.
alorotom said:
lord trumpton said:
I don't accept credit cards at all...theres no way I'm taking a slice off my bottom to fund the customers luxury of paying in the tick.
[s]Nice way to look at it[/s] another vote here for someone who simply wouldn’t use you. I don’t know think there is anyone I buy anything from at all that doesn’t accept cards, it’s a fool hardy approach in what’s rapidly becoming a cashless society to actively stop taking DC/CCskharma45 said:
Ah, I haven't factored in the Merchant Service Charge pat of the diagram
The interchange fee is basically hidden within the Merchant Service Charge, AFAICT they've regulated what one bank charges another, but there's no regulation on what the bank can charge the merchant.I like Hands up deals said:
I’ll be taking things on a slightly different path, and also giving some insight into an earlier posters question with regards to commission on products.
I’m a salesman at a BMW (Inchcape) franchise and I’m hating the path they’ve gone down. A commission change which isn’t unusual in itself, and as always they try and paint it as a positive thing (but it’s really not). They’ve also gone to split teams I.e New and used.
Basic has gone up to 21k from 15k but we’re no longer paid on GAP, Tyre & Alloy, Smart. The only item we’re paid on is GardX (£25 each no sliding scale).
The most we can earn on a car is £100 (if you hit your target) and we’re not paid on profit, no overage, pack car incentives. Literally makes no difference whether I sell an M4 CS, 760 Li or a stock 1 series in flat white.
Needless to say earnings have cut drastically, add to that the extremely long hours, working every weekend (well every other Sunday) and I’m actually contemplating changing industry.
Has anyone else done it, is the grass greener as a recruitment consultant or estate agent lol?
P.S Do any other sales execs on here have to do an arbitrary number of citnows per day?! Used properly they can be a powerful tool, but when you have a sales manager on your back “done your citnows” and you end up just doing random ones it becomes pointless and annoying.
With such crap earning potential I'm surprised you stick around to be honest.I’m a salesman at a BMW (Inchcape) franchise and I’m hating the path they’ve gone down. A commission change which isn’t unusual in itself, and as always they try and paint it as a positive thing (but it’s really not). They’ve also gone to split teams I.e New and used.
Basic has gone up to 21k from 15k but we’re no longer paid on GAP, Tyre & Alloy, Smart. The only item we’re paid on is GardX (£25 each no sliding scale).
The most we can earn on a car is £100 (if you hit your target) and we’re not paid on profit, no overage, pack car incentives. Literally makes no difference whether I sell an M4 CS, 760 Li or a stock 1 series in flat white.
Needless to say earnings have cut drastically, add to that the extremely long hours, working every weekend (well every other Sunday) and I’m actually contemplating changing industry.
Has anyone else done it, is the grass greener as a recruitment consultant or estate agent lol?
P.S Do any other sales execs on here have to do an arbitrary number of citnows per day?! Used properly they can be a powerful tool, but when you have a sales manager on your back “done your citnows” and you end up just doing random ones it becomes pointless and annoying.
Edited by I like Hands up deals on Sunday 25th March 21:28
silentbrown said:
kharma45 said:
Ah, I haven't factored in the Merchant Service Charge pat of the diagram
The interchange fee is basically hidden within the Merchant Service Charge, AFAICT they've regulated what one bank charges another, but there's no regulation on what the bank can charge the merchant.You can look to switch your merchant account to an Interchange++ pricing arrangement.
On this basis you pay the merchant account provider a margin e.g. 0.2% plus whatever the interchange fees are at the cost price.
From my experience it works out much cheaper doing it this way, particularly since the introduction of the regulations which have capped interchange fees.
Butter Face said:
Wooda80 said:
You'll be the one stood by the card machine on a 20 minute call to Bombay trying to answer the security questions!
‘Referral B’‘REFERRAL B’
‘RE FER RAL BEE’
‘Oh for f
ks sake’‘REFERRAL B’
-hand phone to customer-
‘No. I can’t remember what my last direct debit was’
‘How much is my phone bill? I don’t know’
-hands phone back to dealer whilst muttering ‘I’m not racist, but....’ -
-10 mins later-
‘Ok thanks’
‘Your cards been declined, you need to go to your branch to sort it, well give you a lift’
Think some of you “small traders” need to somewhat get out of the dark ages
Butter Face said:
‘Referral B’
‘REFERRAL B’
‘RE FER RAL BEE’
‘Oh for fks sake’
‘REFERRAL B’
-hand phone to customer-
‘No. I can’t remember what my last direct debit was’
‘How much is my phone bill? I don’t know’
-hands phone back to dealer whilst muttering ‘I’m not racist, but....’ -
-10 mins later-
‘Ok thanks’
‘Your cards been declined, you need to go to your branch to sort it, well give you a lift’
‘REFERRAL B’
‘RE FER RAL BEE’
‘Oh for f
ks sake’‘REFERRAL B’
-hand phone to customer-
‘No. I can’t remember what my last direct debit was’
‘How much is my phone bill? I don’t know’
-hands phone back to dealer whilst muttering ‘I’m not racist, but....’ -
-10 mins later-
‘Ok thanks’
‘Your cards been declined, you need to go to your branch to sort it, well give you a lift’
Exactly this - so many times! Funny thing is, it always seems to happen to the rather pompous sort of customer who who sees the referral as some sort of slight on his character by us or his bank. Balloon well and truly popped!alorotom said:
Except most major banks now text you to confirm you are making the transaction, text back “yes”, confirmed response immediately, 30second wait and retry - accepted
Think some of you “small traders” need to somewhat get out of the dark ages
Who’s a “small trader”? Think some of you “small traders” need to somewhat get out of the dark ages
most of us in here Work for large multi franchise companies not back street Arthur Daley types.....EddieSteadyGo said:
silentbrown said:
kharma45 said:
Ah, I haven't factored in the Merchant Service Charge pat of the diagram
The interchange fee is basically hidden within the Merchant Service Charge, AFAICT they've regulated what one bank charges another, but there's no regulation on what the bank can charge the merchant.You can look to switch your merchant account to an Interchange++ pricing arrangement.
On this basis you pay the merchant account provider a margin e.g. 0.2% plus whatever the interchange fees are at the cost price.
From my experience it works out much cheaper doing it this way, particularly since the introduction of the regulations which have capped interchange fees.
Whilst payments by card can be considered as a guaranteed payment the funds often don't clear into the retailer's account for 3 days or so. Consider a dealer registering 10 cars at £30k each on the last day of the month and getting debited £3m upon registration by the manufacturer.
Compared to having payment by transfer the dealer has to allow for an extra £3 million overdraft at the bank while he waits for the customers' card purchases to appear.
Before any "theoretical" types chip in with simplistic solutions: yes all businesses even massive plcs run on overdraft or some kind of external funding. Other kinds of retailer can absorb the effects of this better because their margins are higher and they don't pay for their stock until after it's sold ( 30 days - 180 days ) . Yes the additional overdraft can be arranged but of course there is a cost for having the extra money out. As a customer would you prefer to absorb this in the form of less discount or would you be ok to make a bank transfer instead?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Lloyd’s then ? as I’ve been through exactly the same malarkey with them , rang up and told them who I was buying a car from and that the transaction should come through between 2&3pm .I can remember clearly the look on the salesman’s face when it was declined , on his suggestion I ended up paying half one day and going back the next day to pay the balance and then drove away.
Complained to the bank that I’d pre warned them and that it had left me in a slightly embarrassing situation never mind the inconvenience, apparently I should have gone into the branch and they would have transferred the money on my behalf , not withstanding that they would have charged me £30 for the pleasure.
Luckily for me the dealership was less than 20 miles away .
I like Hands up deals said:
I’ll be taking things on a slightly different path, and also giving some insight into an earlier posters question with regards to commission on products.
I’m a salesman at a BMW (Inchcape) franchise and I’m hating the path they’ve gone down. A commission change which isn’t unusual in itself, and as always they try and paint it as a positive thing (but it’s really not). They’ve also gone to split teams I.e New and used.
Basic has gone up to 21k from 15k but we’re no longer paid on GAP, Tyre & Alloy, Smart. The only item we’re paid on is GardX (£25 each no sliding scale).
The most we can earn on a car is £100 (if you hit your target) and we’re not paid on profit, no overage, pack car incentives. Literally makes no difference whether I sell an M4 CS, 760 Li or a stock 1 series in flat white.
Needless to say earnings have cut drastically, add to that the extremely long hours, working every weekend (well every other Sunday) and I’m actually contemplating changing industry.
Has anyone else done it, is the grass greener as a recruitment consultant or estate agent lol?
P.S Do any other sales execs on here have to do an arbitrary number of citnows per day?! Used properly they can be a powerful tool, but when you have a sales manager on your back “done your citnows” and you end up just doing random ones it becomes pointless and annoying.
Thats sending out a message out they dont want "sales" people, or if they do they dont want to pay for it....be very interesting to see how that pans out......they may as well bin the commission and pay £30K a year, some people would be happy with that.I’m a salesman at a BMW (Inchcape) franchise and I’m hating the path they’ve gone down. A commission change which isn’t unusual in itself, and as always they try and paint it as a positive thing (but it’s really not). They’ve also gone to split teams I.e New and used.
Basic has gone up to 21k from 15k but we’re no longer paid on GAP, Tyre & Alloy, Smart. The only item we’re paid on is GardX (£25 each no sliding scale).
The most we can earn on a car is £100 (if you hit your target) and we’re not paid on profit, no overage, pack car incentives. Literally makes no difference whether I sell an M4 CS, 760 Li or a stock 1 series in flat white.
Needless to say earnings have cut drastically, add to that the extremely long hours, working every weekend (well every other Sunday) and I’m actually contemplating changing industry.
Has anyone else done it, is the grass greener as a recruitment consultant or estate agent lol?
P.S Do any other sales execs on here have to do an arbitrary number of citnows per day?! Used properly they can be a powerful tool, but when you have a sales manager on your back “done your citnows” and you end up just doing random ones it becomes pointless and annoying.
Edited by I like Hands up deals on Sunday 25th March 21:28
Good sales people back in the early 90s were earning 35-40K off a 6K basic selling BMW's!
DanL said:
Dan W. said:
whats fool hardy about it, it costs dealerships money to take cards so why should we swallow the costs ?
Surely you’d price this into the deal? Appreciate that the amount they may want to pay is variable, but assuming it’s just the deposit paid on card then price for the worst case and anything less is a bonus?This is obvious, so there’s a clearly a reason you guys don’t do this, but I’m curious what the reason is. Are you really *that* price competitive that 1-2% on a 1k deposit will lose a deal?
we have on occasion lost a deal due to this but very rare.
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