Ask a car salesman anything...anything at all.
Discussion
Fast Bug said:
I still get customers lying in fleet, we'll be ordering 50 units this year FB. I get discount from the manufacturer based on 50 units, deal for an initial batch of 15 units comes in and er, that's it. Change of plan FB, we're not going to order 50 anymore. Righto, don't expect a big discount next time round then....
I wondered how that worked for cars - it's absolutely routine in our (industrial sales) business. One customer got pricing for 50Kpcs, (about $1M value) placed a PO for 50K with a delivery schedule of 100pcs now, the balance TBA. Accounting won't let you enter a TBA order, so his order is just 100pcs. Got very upset he couldn't have the 50K price.Sheepshanks said:
I wondered how that worked for cars - it's absolutely routine in our (industrial sales) business. One customer got pricing for 50Kpcs, (about $1M value) placed a PO for 50K with a delivery schedule of 100pcs now, the balance TBA. Accounting won't let you enter a TBA order, so his order is just 100pcs. Got very upset he couldn't have the 50K price.
Using the 50 units spread over the year as an example, the customer will get terms from the manufacturer that will run to the end of the year. So in theory they could just order 1 vehicle at a time. If at the end of the year they haven't ordered anywhere near what they said they'd do, unless they was a very good reason, they wouldn't get terms again. I've never known a manufacturer to claw support back, so the customer could end up with 1 very cheap vehicle. But only once....Fast Bug said:
Using the 50 units spread over the year as an example, the customer will get terms from the manufacturer that will run to the end of the year. So in theory they could just order 1 vehicle at a time. If at the end of the year they haven't ordered anywhere near what they said they'd do, unless they was a very good reason, they wouldn't get terms again. I've never known a manufacturer to claw support back, so the customer could end up with 1 very cheap vehicle. But only once....
Uising your numbers we'd put an MOQ to get the 50 unit pricing that might be something like 15 cars with firm delivery dates in the next 3 months.. I guess a bit different for us as we'd expect reasonably steady demand, but for cars it could be very lumpy.Cars can be difficult to predict if it's a user chooser policy, you could end up with none or lots. I've moved back to vans as I much prefer the lcv side of things, and they're usually in batches and most companies forecast at the start of the year how many they want and when. You do get a few companies that will have a rolling amount each month as they find it easier to process and work out change overs.
I remember once reading a presumably apocryphal story about a man driving to a dealership to buy a new car and PX his existing one. He test drove a car, the dealer checked over his PX and they did a deal, everyone happy. The new car would be ready to go the next day and the buyer said he only lived up the road so he might as well leave his car where he’d left it parked neatly at the garage and walk back home.
Next day the customer picked up his new car and the dealer waved him off before jumping into the PX to move it round the back. He turned the ignition key and nothing happened. He tried again and again but there was no sign of life, so he popped the bonnet to see what the problem was. There was no engine in there. The dealer called his buyer in despair calling him a cheat and threatening legal action only to be politely informed that Mr Customer lived up the hill from the garage, had coasted down having removed the engine to sell on and that the dealer had priced it as seen = tough s
t.
Next day the customer picked up his new car and the dealer waved him off before jumping into the PX to move it round the back. He turned the ignition key and nothing happened. He tried again and again but there was no sign of life, so he popped the bonnet to see what the problem was. There was no engine in there. The dealer called his buyer in despair calling him a cheat and threatening legal action only to be politely informed that Mr Customer lived up the hill from the garage, had coasted down having removed the engine to sell on and that the dealer had priced it as seen = tough s
t. 
Unexpected Item In The Bagging Area said:
I remember once reading a presumably apocryphal story about a man driving to a dealership to buy a new car and PX his existing one. He test drove a car, the dealer checked over his PX and they did a deal, everyone happy. The new car would be ready to go the next day and the buyer said he only lived up the road so he might as well leave his car where he’d left it parked neatly at the garage and walk back home.
Next day the customer picked up his new car and the dealer waved him off before jumping into the PX to move it round the back. He turned the ignition key and nothing happened. He tried again and again but there was no sign of life, so he popped the bonnet to see what the problem was. There was no engine in there. The dealer called his buyer in despair calling him a cheat and threatening legal action only to be politely informed that Mr Customer lived up the hill from the garage, had coasted down having removed the engine to sell on and that the dealer had priced it as seen = tough st.
This was me who posted this story on here many months ago (unless it's happened to someone else also?)Next day the customer picked up his new car and the dealer waved him off before jumping into the PX to move it round the back. He turned the ignition key and nothing happened. He tried again and again but there was no sign of life, so he popped the bonnet to see what the problem was. There was no engine in there. The dealer called his buyer in despair calling him a cheat and threatening legal action only to be politely informed that Mr Customer lived up the hill from the garage, had coasted down having removed the engine to sell on and that the dealer had priced it as seen = tough s
t. This happened at a Citroen dealer I worked at many years ago, but fortunately it was not me but my colleague at the time who found himself in this position.
Absolutely true story, car had no engine in it whatsoever and had been rolled down the hill to the dealership having presumably been towed or low loaded to the top of the hill previously.
Customer was local but not that local that he could have possibly freewheeled it that distance, so must have been towed or whatever to a suitable place, to then be rolled down the hill to outside the dealer.
Unbelievable, but totally true, circa 1997.
California Autocentre, Citroen dealer (no longer there, it's now a bingo hall), Barnes Hill (!), Weoley Castle, Birmingham.
Edited by Mexman on Sunday 19th May 09:34
TV audiences were easily pleased in the olden days ( car with no engine )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwlOTYGAP54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwlOTYGAP54
kelevraz said:
Never seen a car dealer that was worried about social media or negative press.. i'm not doubting that they exist, but i imagine its pretty few and far between, considering that most dealerships are actually tiny lol
The PLC dealer groups are pretty large and respond to mentions on FB. Independent stand-alone used car traders however, different thing. kelevraz said:
Again, i've literally never heard of a consumer getting one over on a dealer by lying about their PX (or their financial situation), so you'll have to enlighten me..., how exactly does someone lying about their PX end up benefitting them?
You would have, had you worked any length of time selling cars, which is the point of this thread - ask the people who have done it, or just reinforce your own pre-conceptions, if so - you'll get nothing constructive out being here. kelevraz said:
They describe what the car is like, you value is at X, make an agreement based on this, they show up, you inspect it and the car isn't what they described, they don't get what they were offered. Isn't this basically the life story of WBAC? Or am i missing something when it comes to PX?? Because i'd be extremely shocked to hear you're still forced to pay them what you agreed to. A contract is two ways. A waste of time on the dealers behalf, definitely, but it cant be more than that?
Described as full service history for example - people don't tend to bring the book with them. First we see it i son handover, at which point you're not really able to renegotiate things. How many owners? 2 - HPI check it and shows up as 5. Condition described over the phone/e-mail as "clean", turns up and needs a set of tyres, four wheels refurbishing, a service and there's a light on the dash. In the industry I'm in now, part-exchanges are all appraised and brought into stock at least three days prior to handover - so there is scope to discover faults (especially as heating and hot water systems, 12V and mains systems can be expensive to fix, then there's water ingress to contend with).
You can always tell as when you actually go to drive the PX as part of the appraisal with th ecustomer in the passenger seat, they start getting defensive and looking shifty as they know you're about to find the knackered clutch, the misfire under load, the warning light that comes up intermittently, the noise from the knackered suspension and so on.
So many things that dealers miss and customers bank on them doing little more than a cursory walk-around.
Full service history yes, meaning they've serviced it once every couple of years or "their mate is a mechanic" so there's no real record of invoices, parts used and so on. Yet still they expect top dollar.
I'm sure many of my experienced colleagues here can give many humorous examples of customers trying to - and in some cases succeeding - it's how we learn and adapt over time. Never get stitched up the same way twice!
Best exemplified by the industry saying "buyers are liars!", sadly.
HTP99 said:
Over the years I've learn't to be cautious about someone trading a car in, particularly when it comes to the service history:
I've been looking for a new car recently, spotted one on AT yesterday at a local dealer. 17 plate, 48,000 miles, FSH, popped round to have a look.Was obviously a typo for FHS - it had the full history of its one and only service at 8000 miles in 2017....
QuartzDad said:
HTP99 said:
Over the years I've learn't to be cautious about someone trading a car in, particularly when it comes to the service history:
I've been looking for a new car recently, spotted one on AT yesterday at a local dealer. 17 plate, 48,000 miles, FSH, popped round to have a look.Was obviously a typo for FHS - it had the full history of its one and only service at 8000 miles in 2017....
What irks me is that when pxing, dealers don't appear to attach any value to FSH. Unsurprising, I suppose. Was the same when one of our cars was written off recently - insurance company said they didn't care about that.
The best trade in disaster that I had was an Espace auto that didn't go beyond 2nd gear; with the initial enquiry it was a bit woolly so I valued the car but didn't drive it, saying to the customer that if things progressed to an order I would need to drive it.
Of course things progressed, she ordered but I didn't get round to driving it, the gearbox issue became apparent when it was being moved to the compound, however with a stroke of errrr luck, on the way to the compound, it was involved in an accident and was written off.
We've taken in a couple of Freelanders with the rear diff having been removed; common issue and "rectification" apparently, these weren't discovered until being traded.
Blown turbos on older BMW's, again not discovered until driven properly, the usual engine management issue that only appears when cold, which isn't found out till the following day after it's sat all night.
Years ago an ex colleague took in an Alfa 147 Selespeed, god knows how he didn't notice the awful noise coming from it when it was running; the gearbox was fked, it was appraised as all good, I believe with the Selespeed of that era it was always a case of when it goes wrong as opposed to it might go wrong, I seem to remember it pretty much wrote the car off.
Lately we are getting alot of crap in, I think people are holding on to their cars for longer and only replacing when they have too; many have management lights on ("oh yeah that's the xyz, only costs a few quid to sort out"), airbag lights, knocking suspension etc.
Had a woman come in last week with an 06 Mercedes ML, reasonably tidy, 140k on the clock, zero history, SRS light on, pulled to the left, my manager had a gut feeling about it so checked HPI, it was a cat D from 2013; £500! She had, had it 3 years and bought it in a rush as needed something and wasn't aware of the cat D status.
Of course things progressed, she ordered but I didn't get round to driving it, the gearbox issue became apparent when it was being moved to the compound, however with a stroke of errrr luck, on the way to the compound, it was involved in an accident and was written off.
We've taken in a couple of Freelanders with the rear diff having been removed; common issue and "rectification" apparently, these weren't discovered until being traded.
Blown turbos on older BMW's, again not discovered until driven properly, the usual engine management issue that only appears when cold, which isn't found out till the following day after it's sat all night.
Years ago an ex colleague took in an Alfa 147 Selespeed, god knows how he didn't notice the awful noise coming from it when it was running; the gearbox was f
ked, it was appraised as all good, I believe with the Selespeed of that era it was always a case of when it goes wrong as opposed to it might go wrong, I seem to remember it pretty much wrote the car off.Lately we are getting alot of crap in, I think people are holding on to their cars for longer and only replacing when they have too; many have management lights on ("oh yeah that's the xyz, only costs a few quid to sort out"), airbag lights, knocking suspension etc.
Had a woman come in last week with an 06 Mercedes ML, reasonably tidy, 140k on the clock, zero history, SRS light on, pulled to the left, my manager had a gut feeling about it so checked HPI, it was a cat D from 2013; £500! She had, had it 3 years and bought it in a rush as needed something and wasn't aware of the cat D status.
Edited by HTP99 on Sunday 19th May 11:51
When I was selling vans we took a Transit in from some itinerant block paving specialists. Saw it, appraised it, all fine. They then dropped it off out front when we were closed. Following day, nobody went and moved it. Picked up the new one and off they went. Eventually a colleague went to go and dump it up the compound. Wouldn't start. Went and fetched the jump pack, lifted the bonnet and - no engine. 
They won that round it's fair to say.
They won that round it's fair to say.
Unexpected Item In The Bagging Area said:
Mexman said:
This was me who posted this story on here many months ago (unless it's happened to someone else also
I read it probably 30 years ago! I’m amazed to hear that it’s actually happened though, perhaps the original story was true then. lord trumpton said:
I've been thinking of getting a new dacia duster for e every day driving etc.
While admittedly cheap my dealer wont budge a mm on price.
Ok I'm a cash buyer but still I'd have hoped I could chisel something. He reckons nobody discounts them nationwide
5% margin, count but don't pay towards overall Renault target, more than worth the money; as the advert goes "You do the maths".While admittedly cheap my dealer wont budge a mm on price.
Ok I'm a cash buyer but still I'd have hoped I could chisel something. He reckons nobody discounts them nationwide
And guess why they have rock solid residuals............... oh Yeahh, no discounting.
Evening all.
Does anyone know if a car can be sold with an outstanding recall?
Looking at an approved used Toyota Yaris (from Toyota garage) that on the government website has an outstanding recall. On there and Toyota, basically states speak to the garage. Popped down to dealership today, unfortunately the ‘sales side’ said they wouldn’t know about recall and would have to check with the ‘service side’ who weren’t in today.
Hopefully will get a phone call later this week but just wondered if anyone had experienced this on here?
Struggling to find much online (assuming airbags), seems to affect various Yaris’ we looked at but is only dated from yesterday. I just would have thought the garage would have known a little more about it.
Cheers, Charlesberg.
Does anyone know if a car can be sold with an outstanding recall?
Looking at an approved used Toyota Yaris (from Toyota garage) that on the government website has an outstanding recall. On there and Toyota, basically states speak to the garage. Popped down to dealership today, unfortunately the ‘sales side’ said they wouldn’t know about recall and would have to check with the ‘service side’ who weren’t in today.
Hopefully will get a phone call later this week but just wondered if anyone had experienced this on here?
Struggling to find much online (assuming airbags), seems to affect various Yaris’ we looked at but is only dated from yesterday. I just would have thought the garage would have known a little more about it.
Cheers, Charlesberg.
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