Ask a car salesman anything...anything at all.
Discussion
Wooda80 said:
Truth is, it's only a relatively small proportion of buyers who have a tyre fetish and would be at all concerned. It's a bit like Tesco Own Brand v Tesco Finest. If you like Finest, you can really tell the difference and it's worth the extra money, if you like Own Brand then Finest is a marketing con for fools with money to burn.
If I bought a Tesco Finest Lasagne that was expiring today and so reduced from £3.99 to £1.99, I would be mighty displeased if I opened the pack when I got home to discover a Tesco Value Lasagne inside. I didn't pay for a Value one, I don't want a Value one, and I won't eat it. Sheepshanks said:
skeeterm5 said:
re the "book", at a certain BMW dealership recently I asked about a deal on a new M2 and what they thought my M5 would be worth against it.
The salesman put my car details into WBAC and gave me an offer of their price, so that feels more like the bible that any books anymore.
I was pissed at a Honda dealer for doing that. Dealers need to be careful - what value are they adding? It's easy enough to take the car to WBAC yourself, and buy the new one via the internet.The salesman put my car details into WBAC and gave me an offer of their price, so that feels more like the bible that any books anymore.
Skeeter is right, my first references when valuing a car are CAP, WBAC and Autotrader. If the car is something that will just go to trade rather than something that I want for retail then my bid is more often lower than WBAC than higher.
The likes of WBAC have made the market much more open and transparent for the buyer but it's also made it harder for the buyer to hold the dealer to ransome over the part exchange as their ability to proceed is no longer dependent on the dealer taking their car.
When I'm asked what I would pay for a non retail car, I often preface it truthfully and politely with "I don't really want it, but if it's more convenient for you to trade it in with us then we would offer £x "
It's only the same as offering us a boat, or a watch or 50 head of sheep in part payment
The Moose said:
Sheepshanks said:
I was pissed at a Honda dealer for doing that. Dealers need to be careful - what value are they adding? It's easy enough to take the car to WBAC yourself, and buy the new one via the internet.
I suspect it’s done to be ‘transparent’. “Look mate, these guys will give £2,800 for your car. I’ll do the same and not take a penny out of it”.It’s like the old “I’m sorry, my manager says I can’t help you with that”. Allows the salesman to be friendly with you while still paying WBAC price which considering their cars then go through auctions is likely to be under book value.
Somehow being shown the Glass's price is much more acceptable.
loskie said:
Theguy5 said:
Have you got his number? (;
I do feel I should stand up for the 300c a bit though, I can understand why a dealer wouldn’t want one even the American car dealer as it’s not really ‘american’ enough.
But for me it’s been an excellent car, comfortably, putts along all day at 100mph and feels solid, pulls like a train and mechanically it’s been faultless in the 7 years I’ve had it. Had to replace a alternator cable and coil packs(I think) and that’s it. I can’t fault it at all and it feels at the moment like it would eat up another 100k miles no bother. 11 years old and still turns heads and has good road presence.
Just keep it then.I do feel I should stand up for the 300c a bit though, I can understand why a dealer wouldn’t want one even the American car dealer as it’s not really ‘american’ enough.
But for me it’s been an excellent car, comfortably, putts along all day at 100mph and feels solid, pulls like a train and mechanically it’s been faultless in the 7 years I’ve had it. Had to replace a alternator cable and coil packs(I think) and that’s it. I can’t fault it at all and it feels at the moment like it would eat up another 100k miles no bother. 11 years old and still turns heads and has good road presence.
"still turns heads" What does that mean?? I would turn to look at a crap car the same I might as a Ferrari Le Ferrari!
"Good road presence"?? Do you mean size?? An old Transit fits that comment so don't know what you're getting at?
I am sure it might be fine in isolation but most people would just see it as a back street bodge-up/ chav wagon!
Makes a change from the usual BMW/Audi/ Mercedes line up- ( though I think the diesel is an MB lump!)
jamei303 said:
Wooda80 said:
Truth is, it's only a relatively small proportion of buyers who have a tyre fetish and would be at all concerned. It's a bit like Tesco Own Brand v Tesco Finest. If you like Finest, you can really tell the difference and it's worth the extra money, if you like Own Brand then Finest is a marketing con for fools with money to burn.
If I bought a Tesco Finest Lasagne that was expiring today and so reduced from £3.99 to £1.99, I would be mighty displeased if I opened the pack when I got home to discover a Tesco Value Lasagne inside. I didn't pay for a Value one, I don't want a Value one, and I won't eat it. The situation that you are describing would be "I paid £12500 for a used BMW, imagine my disappointment when I went to pick it up and they gave me a new Kia Rio instead without a word of explanation"
Using your lasagne analogy, the OP had purchased a basket of shopping that contained a Finest Lasagne that had been almost completely eaten and had a unit price of £0.00. The cashier realised it was against Tesco policy to sell partially eaten food and replaced it with an unopened Value Lasagne at no extra charge. We asked 100 people, would you rather eat a fresh Value lasagne, or someone else's leftover Finest lasagne? Our survey said....
Pommy said:
Did you not see they were borderline before you bought it?
TBH no. They looked OK to me, and as an associate member of the tyre fetish club was quietly chuffed to see it had four matching Michelins. PS and now it's started raining I've realised the wipers need replacing. Defcon level has increased to slightly peeved.
Back on topic, I do feel sympathy for the sales guys and the hoops they had to jump through to sell the car and follow the process. I just wanted to hand over the debit card but the amount of 'ways and means' and process steps would have driven me nuts if I was on the other side of the table. At one point I joked that maybe I was a secret shopper and the guy immediately said - with a fairly heavy sigh - "you can't be, they *love* the process and follow it to the letter".
Wooda80 said:
jamei303 said:
Wooda80 said:
Truth is, it's only a relatively small proportion of buyers who have a tyre fetish and would be at all concerned. It's a bit like Tesco Own Brand v Tesco Finest. If you like Finest, you can really tell the difference and it's worth the extra money, if you like Own Brand then Finest is a marketing con for fools with money to burn.
If I bought a Tesco Finest Lasagne that was expiring today and so reduced from £3.99 to £1.99, I would be mighty displeased if I opened the pack when I got home to discover a Tesco Value Lasagne inside. I didn't pay for a Value one, I don't want a Value one, and I won't eat it. The situation that you are describing would be "I paid £12500 for a used BMW, imagine my disappointment when I went to pick it up and they gave me a new Kia Rio instead without a word of explanation"
Using your lasagne analogy, the OP had purchased a basket of shopping that contained a Finest Lasagne that had been almost completely eaten and had a unit price of £0.00. The cashier realised it was against Tesco policy to sell partially eaten food and replaced it with an unopened Value Lasagne at no extra charge. We asked 100 people, would you rather eat a fresh Value lasagne, or someone else's leftover Finest lasagne? Our survey said....
Get out of here with your rational thought process!
Tyres are a weird one, as mentioned already, most people DGAF what they are, if they're black, round and new, off they go. For the ones who are bothered, they're normally the ones mentioning the tyres in negotiations, telling us that they want X brand fitted as part of the deal.
If you:
a) Didn't even look at the tyres to see if they were low and are now shocked they've put cheap ones on
or
b) Did look at the tyres, saw they were low but didn't mention it/ask for a specific brand
Then you have no right/recourse to be miffed. If you'd discussed it, said you wanted like for like replacements and then they had put on cheap tyres then of course you have a right to get it sorted, if not, well, black, round, made of rubber, sorted.
Wooda80 said:
Make sure you only fit Bosch blades, not any cheap and nasty rubbish...
Ha, no associate membership there, I'm a fully paid up fellow of the Bosch or nothing Guild. ECP click and collect order already placed, £54 before discount for three wipers. When your sales approach makes DFS look good, something is very wrong...QuartzDad said:
Ha, no associate membership there, I'm a fully paid up fellow of the Bosch or nothing Guild. ECP click and collect order already placed, £54 before discount for three wipers. When your sales approach makes DFS look good, something is very wrong...
Are the blades damaged or is it just polish on the glass that'smaking them smeary? Just wondered as it's odd that all 3 would be damaged simultaneously.DFS score on trustpilot is 9.1/10 so it does take some beating, I agree. https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.dfs.co.uk?pag... We have 160 5-star reviews on Autotrader
oceanview said:
I know the percentage is going to be very low but, what approximate percentage of vehicles do you come across that have been properly/lovingly maintained- like decent matching tyres, quality wiper blades, proper service history ( not just an oil change every 2 years) ??
At the everyday type of car level its probably about nil IME, and not necessarily a whole lot better with the dearer stuff.If I'd had a pound for every time someone has tried to part exchange a car or just straight sell me a car and told me its mint, out of the box and all the other crap ….
Worst of all is when other dealers / traders who should know better give out that same BS.
QuartzDad said:
Ha, no associate membership there, I'm a fully paid up fellow of the Bosch or nothing Guild. ECP click and collect order already placed, £54 before discount for three wipers. When your sales approach makes DFS look good, something is very wrong...
Amazon were half the price of ECP for Bosch wipers when I replaced mine a couple of weeks ago. On the subject of tyres, when I bought my V40 it had 3 nearly new Continental tyres and one on the wear indicators. I had a moan and they replaced it with a new Falken cross climate tyre. I couldn't complain as it was a new tyre, but I did replace both tyres on that axle well before they were needed, just to get matching tyres.
MuscleSaloon said:
oceanview said:
I know the percentage is going to be very low but, what approximate percentage of vehicles do you come across that have been properly/lovingly maintained- like decent matching tyres, quality wiper blades, proper service history ( not just an oil change every 2 years) ??
At the everyday type of car level its probably about nil IME, and not necessarily a whole lot better with the dearer stuff.If I'd had a pound for every time someone has tried to part exchange a car or just straight sell me a car and told me its mint, out of the box and all the other crap ….
Worst of all is when other dealers / traders who should know better give out that same BS.
I must be unique then! My Z4 Coupe doesn't get driven in rain and gets new oil every year without fail (only 4000 miles) from a BMW specialist as well! The chassis is cleaner than a lot of cars bodywork.
I just bought an old Citroen Berlingo Diesel (56 plate) as a kayak/bike/tip vehicle. Its pretty tidy but, I didn't like the mismatched/worn rear tyres so its got a new set of Avons ( cheap for me, it would be Goodyear/Contis's on the BMW), fitting new discs/pads and have cleaned/greased the chassis! Hell, I even clay padded it and waxed it with Autosmart Topaz!
I realise I am in the minority but I like a tidy, up together vehicle and even enjoy doing it!
4941cc said:
Deep Thought said:
Probably covered off before, but what is the real reason(s) why manufacturers incentivise the finance deals rather than offer it as extra discount off the car?
Mercedes are offering £2,925 "deposit contribution" on a C Class at the minute. Why not just offer an extra discount instead?
(I think i know the answer(s) to this but want to hear from the sales people as to why its actually done)
A car bought outright doesn't have any particular obligation to come back into the dealership at any later point. Mercedes are offering £2,925 "deposit contribution" on a C Class at the minute. Why not just offer an extra discount instead?
(I think i know the answer(s) to this but want to hear from the sales people as to why its actually done)
When there is an agreement, there is a term and usually a lump of an end value that needs to be reconciled one way or another.
It's also there to swallow up the average amount of negative equity being carried over from the previous deal, assuming you bought the predecessor model...
Take Mercedes, selling, what, 100,000 cars a year. Say they are £40,000 each. If 10% of those sales switch from MB Finance at 4.9% to somewhere else they’re losing conservatively 2.9% times £40,000 times 10,000 cars. I reckon that’s almost £12m. A year. Obviously a bunch of rough and ready assumption, but the principles the same.
Great thread chaps. Question please:
What view does the industry have of vehicles that have come back from Japan? Both cars for the Jap domestic market, and those originally registered here in the UK and then shipped abroad?
(Herein lies the great debate about the value of service history versus minty looking cars with barely a napkin of history but from a country with no rust and higher service expectations.)
But interested in what the trade thinks of them (in terms of both the vehicles and the business experience of people involved in them)...
What view does the industry have of vehicles that have come back from Japan? Both cars for the Jap domestic market, and those originally registered here in the UK and then shipped abroad?
(Herein lies the great debate about the value of service history versus minty looking cars with barely a napkin of history but from a country with no rust and higher service expectations.)
But interested in what the trade thinks of them (in terms of both the vehicles and the business experience of people involved in them)...
Sheepshanks said:
skeeterm5 said:
re the "book", at a certain BMW dealership recently I asked about a deal on a new M2 and what they thought my M5 would be worth against it.
The salesman put my car details into WBAC and gave me an offer of their price, so that feels more like the bible that any books anymore.
I was pissed at a Honda dealer for doing that. Dealers need to be careful - what value are they adding? It's easy enough to take the car to WBAC yourself, and buy the new one via the internet.The salesman put my car details into WBAC and gave me an offer of their price, so that feels more like the bible that any books anymore.
OddCat said:
If buying a used car, and they do this to get an indication of value for your old one, try asking them to put into WBAC the details of the car you are buying too. That should cause some excitement...
Then remember you need to add prep costs, warranty, overheads, VAT, profit and realise that you're being silly...
OddCat said:
If buying a used car, and they do this to get an indication of value for your old one, try asking them to put into WBAC the details of the car you are buying too. That should cause some excitement...
You do understand the difference between trade and retail right?If he was to do that, he would get the figure (or thereabouts) that he paid for the car, not what he is selling for.
Motor trade in making profit (sometimes) shocker!
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