Best smoker barges 1-5 large [Vol 12]

[idiotgap]

stewjohnst said:

the wife likes to be jacked up but dislikes xc90’s.

What else could I suggest outside of a frankly irresponsible 4.6 i.s?

Cayenne?
They say the turbos aren't so bad on the bork side of things.

[tobinen]

I like that 530 Touring too. Would be a very suitable weekend hack. An R129 (I think) in his garage, if it is his garage.

Edited by tobinen on Friday 27th April 07:11

[Krikkit]

idiotgap said:

stewjohnst said:

the wife likes to be jacked up but dislikes xc90’s.

What else could I suggest outside of a frankly irresponsible 4.6 i.s?

Cayenne?
They say the turbos aren't so bad on the bork side of things.

What about the jacked-up estates? XC70/A6 Allroad (V8 available)

Our own thread denizen, derin, has recently bought an X3 with the lovely petrol six.

[derin100]

tobinen said:

I like that 530 Touring too. Would be a very suitable weekend hack. An R129 (I think) in his garage, if it is his garage.

Edited by tobinen on Friday 27th April 07:11

That looks like a good buy to me at that money. An honest sounding advert listing the usual E39 cosmetic problem areas. Good money has been spent in the right places. If I were in the market I'd be tempted by that.

The advert makes it sound like a £2000 offer might take it and I'd then put the £300 off towards the cost of doing the bodywork bits and a bottom half respray. It would be a very smart thing indeed then.

Gearbox concerns? Well, maybe I've just been fortunate but I've now owned 7 E39s and never had a gearbox problem (and none of them ever had any evidence of any previous gearbox maintenance/oil changes). Similarly, I've had only one instance of the well-reported cooling system woes which then lead to a head-gasket failure (on a 528i Touring). So sometimes I think the reported 'news' on the internet isn't quite 'fake news' but it does give us a distorted view of the world.

These days, on an E39, I value a look underneath particularly at the state of the brake lines. We had to renew those on the one we keep out in France. We had to replace those and it was a cheap exercise and that's on a car that was only exposed to UK roads, salt and rain for half of its life. The rest has been spent in the relatively dry and salt-less roads of southern France.

[layercake]

ian316 said:

Prinny said:

I’m calling it for one of mine being knocked off right now. Purchase incoming!

As you all know, I keep wittering on about wanting an SL. I was all setup to be ‘phone bidding (unseen) on this, on Friday: https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C971233

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mercedes-Benz-500sl-Con...

But then the ebay one mentioned earlier today popped up yesterday in my saved searches, and Liverpool isn’t that far from me...
Some of you may recognise the big blue thing lurking in the background too.


It’s got 4 mismatched cheapo tyres, the aerial doesn’t work, and each front arch has some slight blistering, but nothing major. & the bumper scuff mentioned in the ad. It’s not perfect, sure, but I can fettle it gradually, the plan was always to get a gingercator car for preference, so I’m quite happy now. Should be picking up Tues. (save on rfl)

Will let you all know how it goes of course!

edit: Oh, and the spoiler will probably go at some stage.

Also... If the above hadn’t happened, I was considering a trip to Glasgow. I know the Sacco panels are wrong, but it otherwise feels ‘right’ to a non-beard like me. (much learning to do I have). Thoughts?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Edited by Prinny on Wednesday 25th April 20:40

Great buy looks like a bargain

congratulations mate, you beat me to it, if you ever sell it would appreciate first refusal, tried to email you but says it isn't accepting emails

[ShyTallKnight]

Leggy Jag SV8 on a fb owners forum.... Just out of thread budget @ £6.5k but wonder when these will have dropped to within a haggle of thread budget..!!

Also on AT: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Edited by ShyTallKnight on Friday 27th April 08:31

[derin100]

Krikkit said:

idiotgap said:

stewjohnst said:

the wife likes to be jacked up but dislikes xc90’s.

What else could I suggest outside of a frankly irresponsible 4.6 i.s?

Cayenne?
They say the turbos aren't so bad on the bork side of things.

What about the jacked-up estates? XC70/A6 Allroad (V8 available)

Our own thread denizen, derin, has recently bought an X3 with the lovely petrol six.

You literally just beat me to it!

Recently, in a moment of similar utter madness, I too nearly threw myself off the X5 V8 high-board. I wasn't going to do things by halves and mere go off the 5m spring-board that is the 4.6i. I was actually sizing up a full double-back somersault with half-twist off the 10m board and go for the 4.8is !

Thankfully, once at the precipice and having researched the potential running costs, my vertigo kicked-in and I decided that the Bork Quotient of the dive that I was contemplating was too high.

Rather than go for a spectacular Gold, I decided to climb down, play safe and secure a Bronze...which also happens to be the colour of the X3 3.0Si that I bought instead.

And you know what? Despite all the bad press that I was aware of about them before I bought it...it's actually pretty good! *

My wife seems to like the slightly higher driving position too! She's never been the most confident or interested of drivers but she really seems quite smitten by the X3 such that I feel a late season slump might see me relegated down to the Conference League of her, now increasingly passed over E39 525i Saloon.

• I wrote a short appraisal on page 376 of this thread if you are interested.

Edited by derin100 on Friday 27th April 08:40

[anonymous-user]

ShyTallKnight said:

Leggy Jag SV8 on a fb owners forum.... Just out of thread budget @ £6.5k but wonder when these will have dropped to within a haggle of thread budget..!!

Also on AT: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Edited by ShyTallKnight on Friday 27th April 08:31

My experience of Jaguars made post 1996 has been that they really can't cope with high mileages. My S-Type Diesel was knackered at 150k, and every high mileage one I've ever viewed has looked and felt very tired. I think this is borne out with the very low numbers of them you see at 150k+ that aren't broken in some fundamental way.

Internet people would have you believe that timing chains, nikasil, and water pumps are the only weaknesses of the V8 but that simply isn't true; our own 0a had one st the bed for absolutely no reason recently, which is a far from uncommon experience. Jaguar penny pinch wherever they can, right back to the Lyons days, and it really shows as the miles and years roll on. I think the X300 really does mark a high point of reliability, quality, and usability. They sell for disposable car money for very good reason.

Short version: No Thanks.

Edited by dme123 on Friday 27th April 08:47

[Jimi.K.]

ShyTallKnight said:

Leggy Jag SV8 on a fb owners forum.... Just out of thread budget @ £6.5k but wonder when these will have dropped to within a haggle of thread budget..!!

Also on AT: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Edited by ShyTallKnight on Friday 27th April 08:31

I considered an early XF a few months ago but after doing my homework decided against it. Early ones can have lots of electrical gremlins which can leave the car undrivible and are very expensive to fix. The other thing I recall is even tiny front collisions (like hitting a small animal) can cause the pedestrian bonnet airbags to deploy, again leaving the car undrivible and costing £2000+ to replace.

In the end I played it safe with a 3rd gen Lexus GS which has been faultless so far.

[Lowtimer]

derin100 said:

Gearbox concerns? Well, maybe I've just been fortunate but I've now owned 7 E39s and never had a gearbox problem (and none of them ever had any evidence of any previous gearbox maintenance/oil changes).

Well, I had two failures out of the two auto E39s I've had, both at around the 140-150K mark, so as they say, your mileage may vary. On the other hand I've never had a radiator go pop (touches wood), nor a BMW manual gearbox, and I only had to change the clutch on my current manual 530i at the 140K mile mark which seems eminenty reasonable. (It was still functioning without slip but clearly didn;t have a lot left at that point.)

I agree brake lines are definitely coming up on most E39s if they haven't been done fairly recently.. But then they are on all 20 year old cars used every day in environments which include winter salt.

Edited by Lowtimer on Friday 27th April 09:25

[Krikkit]

dme123 said:

Internet people would have you believe that timing chains, nikasil, and water pumps are the only weaknesses of the V8 but that simply isn't true; our own 0a had one st the bed for absolutely no reason recently, which is a far from uncommon experience. Jaguar penny pinch wherever they can, right back to the Lyons days, and it really shows as the miles and years roll on. I think the X300 really does mark a high point of reliability, quality, and usability. They sell for disposable car money for very good reason.

Short version: No Thanks.

Respectfully, I disagree.

Slating Jaguar for penny-pinching completely ignores the other rival marques (Lexus aside) of doing exactly the same thing of this era, and leaving cars with some serious faults.

Take, for example, the E39 - not only do you have a cooling system which needs refreshing often (lest ye be stuck with a burst system), but you can plough a fortune into trying to fix the front end shimmy without even meeting with success. That's before you get to the standard items which wear out on old barges.

The w210/211 is no better - the electrics in the 211 are frequently a problem child, the 210 fizzes away for fun when exposed to weather without being pampered... The other two rust, but that really is in a league of its own.

As far as the S-type and XF goes they're a bit of an unknown quantity, certainly the S-type was built down to a price, and it shows. The early XF was an immensely complex car, electronically speaking, so it's no surprise there are some gremlins.

[derin100]

Lowtimer said:

derin100 said:

Gearbox concerns? Well, maybe I've just been fortunate but I've now owned 7 E39s and never had a gearbox problem (and none of them ever had any evidence of any previous gearbox maintenance/oil changes).

Well, I had two failures out of the two auto E39s I've had, both at around the 140-150K mark, so as they say, your mileage may vary. On the other hand I've never had a radiator go pop (touches wood), nor a BMW manual gearbox, and I only had to change the clutch on my current manual 530i at the 140K mile mark which seems eminenty reasonable. (It was still functioning without slip but clearly didn;t have a lot left at that point.)

I agree brake lines are definitely coming up on most E39s if they haven't been done fairly recently.. But then they are on all 20 year old cars used every day in environments which include winter salt.

Edited by Lowtimer on Friday 27th April 09:25

Yes, it seems the gearbox thing can be a lottery and in fairness I've never actually owned one that was beyond the 150K miles mark ( although a couple were over 140K) so maybe I was lucky and bailed just in time.

I've only owned one manual E39 (the 525i Touring that we keep in France) and I have to say that I'm not too keen on it. It actually lowered geared than our 525i Auto Saloon and hence is actually thirstier and less relaxed. I might think differently if I'd been stung by two auto 'box failures? I've been stung by lots of other things on that particular car which probably also prejudices me against it. Currently in at the garage in France having a new starter motor...and so it goes on. It's the most I've had to spend on any E39 and it only just over 100K miles on it and probably not even saleable.

[SpeckledJim]

I had no aggro with any of my three leggy bargain basement E39s.

I'd definitely have another cheap one if I got the right vibes from it.

[Gruber]

Apologies for a numpty question, but what does a gearbox failure mean on these: are they economically repairable, or is it a case of needing to find a new (or good second hand) box?

[Phil Dicky]

W00DY said:

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

A well loved 530i touring at a very reasonable price.

Saw a mint 540i Touring in Wakefield two days ago, would have posted a pic here but left my phone in the office .

[rsbmw]

Krikkit said:

dme123 said:

Internet people would have you believe that timing chains, nikasil, and water pumps are the only weaknesses of the V8 but that simply isn't true; our own 0a had one st the bed for absolutely no reason recently, which is a far from uncommon experience. Jaguar penny pinch wherever they can, right back to the Lyons days, and it really shows as the miles and years roll on. I think the X300 really does mark a high point of reliability, quality, and usability. They sell for disposable car money for very good reason.

Short version: No Thanks.

Respectfully, I disagree.

Slating Jaguar for penny-pinching completely ignores the other rival marques (Lexus aside) of doing exactly the same thing of this era, and leaving cars with some serious faults.

Take, for example, the E39 - not only do you have a cooling system which needs refreshing often (lest ye be stuck with a burst system), but you can plough a fortune into trying to fix the front end shimmy without even meeting with success. That's before you get to the standard items which wear out on old barges.

The w210/211 is no better - the electrics in the 211 are frequently a problem child, the 210 fizzes away for fun when exposed to weather without being pampered... The other two rust, but that really is in a league of its own.

As far as the S-type and XF goes they're a bit of an unknown quantity, certainly the S-type was built down to a price, and it shows. The early XF was an immensely complex car, electronically speaking, so it's no surprise there are some gremlins.

Do either of you have any thoughts on the 5.0 SC unit in the XFR? I'm currently looking at 2010-2011 models with around 60k mileage. Everything I have read suggests this is a pretty robust engine. Appreciate this is off topic for this thread.

[Lowtimer]

Gruber said:

Apologies for a numpty question, but what does a gearbox failure mean on these: are they economically repairable, or is it a case of needing to find a new (or good second hand) box?

Different E39 models have different auto boxes, there are ZF and GM boxes in service. However, for either, basically something in the region of 150K miles appears to be the likely trouble-free life of the transmission if unmaintained, and BMW does not include maintenance in the service schedule, so less than 1% of them have been maintained. An exchange transmission is a hefty four-figure bill, and of course you have to choose between:
a) getting one straight from a scrapper, trusting it will be OK, and hoping it lasts as long as you need it to. All the cars are so old now that I think that's a mug's game. Ten years ago you could easily find a car in a scrapyard that had done 30K miles and been crashed, but those days are now behind us;
b) getting one from a scrapper and having it properly serviced and any obvious faults rectified before you put it in;
c) getting on fully remanufactured to new condition.

Couple of threads here on symptoms, which may include things like bad shifting, failure to engage drive or reverse, nasty grumbling noises, slippage, failure to lock up in 4th and 5th, etc etc
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

This is not specifically a BMW E39 problem, by the way: it also applies to any other car with automatic transmissions for which the carmarker has decided for commercial reasons to ignore the transmission manufacturer's maintenance recommendations, on the grounds that the first owner of a car wants the lowest possible running costs, and what happens the the third owner out of warranty is not a problem for the carmaker.

Pretty soon we will start seeing similar problems with the current generation of ZF 8-speed, variations of which seem to be fitted to just about every car on the roads now.

Edited by Lowtimer on Friday 27th April 10:18

[derin100]

Krikkit said:

dme123 said:

Internet people would have you believe that timing chains, nikasil, and water pumps are the only weaknesses of the V8 but that simply isn't true; our own 0a had one st the bed for absolutely no reason recently, which is a far from uncommon experience. Jaguar penny pinch wherever they can, right back to the Lyons days, and it really shows as the miles and years roll on. I think the X300 really does mark a high point of reliability, quality, and usability. They sell for disposable car money for very good reason.

Short version: No Thanks.

Respectfully, I disagree.

Slating Jaguar for penny-pinching completely ignores the other rival marques (Lexus aside) of doing exactly the same thing of this era, and leaving cars with some serious faults.

Take, for example, the E39 - not only do you have a cooling system which needs refreshing often (lest ye be stuck with a burst system), but you can plough a fortune into trying to fix the front end shimmy without even meeting with success. That's before you get to the standard items which wear out on old barges.

The w210/211 is no better - the electrics in the 211 are frequently a problem child, the 210 fizzes away for fun when exposed to weather without being pampered... The other two rust, but that really is in a league of its own.

As far as the S-type and XF goes they're a bit of an unknown quantity, certainly the S-type was built down to a price, and it shows. The early XF was an immensely complex car, electronically speaking, so it's no surprise there are some gremlins.

In short, Barges give with one hand yet take with the other....

As someone once said:

[derin100]

Lowtimer said:

Gruber said:

Apologies for a numpty question, but what does a gearbox failure mean on these: are they economically repairable, or is it a case of needing to find a new (or good second hand) box?

Different E39 models have different auto boxes, there are ZF and GM boxes in service. However, for either, basically something in the region of 150K miles appears to be the likely trouble-free life of the transmission if unmaintained, and BMW does not include maintenance in the service schedule, so less than 1% of them have been maintained. An exchange transmission is a hefty four-figure bill, and of course you have to choose between:
a) getting one straight from a scrapper, trusting it will be OK, and hoping it lasts as long as you need it to. All the cars are so old now that I think that's a mug's game. Ten years ago you could easily find a car in a scrapyard that had done 30K miles and been crashed, but those days are now behind us;
b) getting one from a scrapper and having it properly serviced and any obvious faults rectified before you put it in;
c) getting on fully remanufactured to new condition.

Couple of threads here on symptoms, which may include things like bad shifting, failure to engage drive or reverse, nasty grumbling noises, slippage, failure to lock up in 4th and 5th, etc etc
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

This is not specifically a BMW E39 problem, by the way: it also applies to any other car with automatic transmissions for which the carmarker has decided for commercial reasons to ignore the transmission manufacturer's maintenance recommendations, on the grounds that the first owner of a car wants the lowest possible running costs, and what happens the the third owner out of warranty is not a problem for the carmaker.

Pretty soon we will start seeing similar problems with the current generation of ZF 8-speed, variations of which seem to be fitted to just about every car on the roads now.

Edited by Lowtimer on Friday 27th April 10:18

^^ Very interesting to know and bear in mind!

The only (close to) personal experience I have of an auto gearbox failure in an E39 was a friend of mine who bought a 540i Touring which had just over the above stated 150K miles and did indeed promptly develop a problem. So definitely food for thought and a strong argument possibly for seeking out low mileage examples...hmmm? My wive's 525i (or is it now mine?) had only 50-odd K miles when we bought it and still only 79K. So maybe I should hang on to it.

[SpeckledJim]

derin100 said:

^^ Very interesting to know and bear in mind!

The only (close to) personal experience I have of an auto gearbox failure in an E39 was a friend of mine who bought a 540i Touring which had just over the above stated 150K miles and did indeed promptly develop a problem. So definitely food for thought and a strong argument possibly for seeking out low mileage examples...hmmm? My wive's 525i (or is it now mine?) had only 50-odd K miles when we bought it and still only 79K. So maybe I should hang on to it.

Apart from headlamps and bluetooth, cars haven't really got any better than a good E39 in the last 20 years.