RE: Lotus Evora GT430: Driven

RE: Lotus Evora GT430: Driven

Author
Discussion

sidesauce

2,456 posts

217 months

Thursday 19th October 2017
quotequote all
kambites said:
It wasn't meant to be a rhetorical question; I have no experience of recent Evoras. smile
You did say that, to be fair. smile

Porsche911R

21,146 posts

264 months

Thursday 19th October 2017
quotequote all
I would buy one at £80k

I just like the joke of them all sold like the Exige CUP where there is a choice and still open slots.

Like wise this is not sold out even if there are only making 60 cars.

Buyers are voting to keep away at these prices.

That does not make it a bad car , it just makes it too expensive.

TVR can launch a new car from scratch with all bespoke parts and a proper engine at £90k Lotus buy all the parts in, have an old engine and want this daft price !

I still have hopes for the 2020 Elise if it's priced right and not under powered but as it stands I cannot buy into a new Lotus at todays prices.

CABC

5,533 posts

100 months

Thursday 19th October 2017
quotequote all
reading between the lines of recent press comments, i reckon sports cars will be produced in Hethel, and the SUV in Asia.

saaby93

32,038 posts

177 months

Thursday 19th October 2017
quotequote all

Whose house features in these screenshots

At least it's not that german britisher architect squarebox that everyone else likes to use

Audemars

507 posts

97 months

Thursday 19th October 2017
quotequote all
sidesauce said:
Whether that's true or not is based on two things. Firstly, if Lotus made as many cars as Porsche, maybe that metric would be different? Secondly, it doesn't matter if the world at large doesn't perceive it to be the case. Porsche's 'real-world' reputation isn't one of unreliability. Lotus's infamous acronym 'Lots Of Trouble, Ususally Serious' exists for a reason...

Edited by sidesauce on Thursday 19th October 09:16
That acronym is from people who are clueless about cars. Lotus engines are toyota engines so they are probably the most reliable sports/supercars cars out there.

Simple people think German cars are the most reliable and the most prestigious. How wrong can they be.

saaby93

32,038 posts

177 months

Thursday 19th October 2017
quotequote all


This is the widebody styling? with the holes showing the rear wheels smokin

The rear end of the 400 was a tad slabby - is it still in production?




sidesauce

2,456 posts

217 months

Thursday 19th October 2017
quotequote all
Audemars said:
sidesauce said:
Whether that's true or not is based on two things. Firstly, if Lotus made as many cars as Porsche, maybe that metric would be different? Secondly, it doesn't matter if the world at large doesn't perceive it to be the case. Porsche's 'real-world' reputation isn't one of unreliability. Lotus's infamous acronym 'Lots Of Trouble, Ususally Serious' exists for a reason...

Edited by sidesauce on Thursday 19th October 09:16
That acronym is from people who are clueless about cars. Lotus engines are toyota engines so they are probably the most reliable sports/supercars cars out there.

Simple people think German cars are the most reliable and the most prestigious. How wrong can they be.
Whether they are right or wrong the bottom line is Lotus has had more financial problems than most over its history because the market doesn't buy them in significantly enough numbers for them to generate profit to create even better cars. I speak not just about the UK market but around the world also. In the US, Japanese cars are considered more reliable than German cars but ironically it's an American journalist that came up with that acronym! A cars reliability is based on much much more than its engine...

mylesmcd

2,521 posts

218 months

Thursday 19th October 2017
quotequote all
kambites said:
plenty said:
kambites said:
Realistically that almost certainly means manufacturing the cars (or at least some of the cars) in China; it's not like Lotus have huge production capability here that they'd be ditching.
I’m not at all sure that’s the case. A huge part of the Lotus proposition is its British heritage, which is as important to overseas buyers as British ones. Geely are too smart to mess with that.
If they build them here, wont they have to pay exorbitant import duties to get them back into China? Or do those not apply to Chinese companies building abroad?

Where are Chinese market Volvos built?

Edited by kambites on Thursday 19th October 08:49
Sports Cars in Hethel, the SUV's etc will be in China - it was on another brief from the new CEo last week.

CABC

5,533 posts

100 months

Thursday 19th October 2017
quotequote all
sidesauce said:
Whether that's true or not is based on two things. Firstly, if Lotus made as many cars as Porsche, maybe that metric would be different? Secondly, it doesn't matter if the world at large doesn't perceive it to be the case. Porsche's 'real-world' reputation isn't one of unreliability. Lotus's infamous acronym 'Lots Of Trouble, Ususally Serious' exists for a reason...

Edited by sidesauce on Thursday 19th October 09:16
that comment reduces the debate to the playground. The good reason dates from when Lotus made engines. move on a few decades.

The reason a few on here 'criticise' Porsche is that they've moved their cars into the mainstream and in some ways left their origins (profitably) behind them. They don't make accessible raw fun cars anymore. They make great cars and their engineers are some of the very best. Many comments are laments rather than criticisms. It's true that there's little profit in serious fun sports cars. And those that persevere all have some quality perceptions/realities - Lotus, Caterham, Morgan.

shirt

22,508 posts

200 months

Thursday 19th October 2017
quotequote all
sidesauce said:
Lotus's infamous acronym 'Lots Of Trouble, Ususally Serious' exists for a reason...
In the past maybe, these days it only exists because it gets rolled out by hilarious forum members who've never driven one.

Build quality has been patchy but I can't think of common failures which could be categorised as serious. The Evora clutch issue on early cars is perhaps the worst.

They're not complex cars.

SWoll

18,206 posts

257 months

Thursday 19th October 2017
quotequote all
Audemars said:
sidesauce said:
Whether that's true or not is based on two things. Firstly, if Lotus made as many cars as Porsche, maybe that metric would be different? Secondly, it doesn't matter if the world at large doesn't perceive it to be the case. Porsche's 'real-world' reputation isn't one of unreliability. Lotus's infamous acronym 'Lots Of Trouble, Ususally Serious' exists for a reason...

Edited by sidesauce on Thursday 19th October 09:16
That acronym is from people who are clueless about cars. Lotus engines are toyota engines so they are probably the most reliable sports/supercars cars out there.

Simple people think German cars are the most reliable and the most prestigious. How wrong can they be.
The engine and gearbox I'm sure will be reliable but aren't all of the electrical systems Lotus own? Plenty of complaints out there about faulty sensors and ECU's from what I've seen?

sidesauce

2,456 posts

217 months

Thursday 19th October 2017
quotequote all
CABC said:
that comment reduces the debate to the playground.
Ask a non-pistonhead if they'd buy a Lotus over a Porsche. Whether the statement is true now or not doesn't change the fact it's perceived that way, particularly by those who know little about cars but who want something sporty.

I'm aware of the general reliability of Lotus cars but we on this forum/website here do not constitute the world market or the majority of car buyers!

In my first comment in this thread, I said I want Lotus to win. Unfortunately their history and reputation in the general populous (as opposed to the enthusiasts) is NOT one of reliability which in part is why many people would more likely buy a Porsche in the first instance.

saaby93

32,038 posts

177 months

Thursday 19th October 2017
quotequote all
Wasnt it usually stupid things that failed eg they'd mount a relay box upside somewhere just where it would fill with water
Lotus - Lots of trouble usually stupid, may be more appropriate - easy to fix but annoying

If we're doing history who remembers the turnip wars?

Just so I have it right is the 430 wide body compared to 400?

saaby93 said:


This is the widebody styling? with the holes showing the rear wheels smokin

The rear end of the 400 was a tad slabby - is it still in production?

Some standard vs 400 pics here too and a PH forum member smile

https://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/topic/83731-...




Edited by saaby93 on Thursday 19th October 09:58

CABC

5,533 posts

100 months

Thursday 19th October 2017
quotequote all
sidesauce said:
CABC said:
that comment reduces the debate to the playground.
Ask a non-pistonhead if they'd buy a Lotus over a Porsche. Whether the statement is true now or not doesn't change the fact it's perceived that way, particularly by those who know little about cars but who want something sporty.

I'm aware of the general reliability of Lotus cars but we on this forum/website here do not constitute the world market or the majority of car buyers!

In my first comment in this thread, I said I want Lotus to win. Unfortunately their history and reputation in the general populous (as opposed to the enthusiasts) is NOT one of reliability which in part is why many people would more likely buy a Porsche in the first instance.
ok, sorry. i read your tone as it being justified...

We agree, PH is far from the world market and is certainly not representative of it.

The issue that Lotus have is not that new buyers have a negative perception from the past, it's that the brand isn't even on their radar. Sadly, for all of Porsche's engineering efforts, most buyers are buying a badge and lifestyle, not the car per se. Most have never heard of PH either, although having bought their first sportscar they may subsequently find it. No, Lotus needs to launch afresh. And this is where Geely cash is needed. They'll need a dealer network too. If i were Geely (* insert smart arse comment here*) i would have Volvo share EV tech with Lotus, Lotus share handling expertise with Volvo and also share some dealer outlets).

In the face of growing market demand for suvs and dull hatchbacks i want more fun sports cars to be produced as i believe that will actually build the market (supply creating demand through awareness).

The opportunity for an ev sports car is reasonably good it think. a car that does short trips and goes from A-to-A a lot.

gigglebug

2,611 posts

121 months

Thursday 19th October 2017
quotequote all
The question I'd be asking wouldn't necessarily be how it stacks up against it's rivals from other marques but how it stacks up against the Exige in it's highest spec. Is the Evora's ability worth the extra 20K plus over one and more importantly would I even be anywhere near talented enough to make use of any extra performance? Probably not.

I know they aren't the most practical but for me the Evora's back seating was the thing that would make me choose one over the equivalent Exige, and any other two seat sportscar. The fact that in this model it has been reduced to being merely that, just another 2 seat sports car, would naturally open up the possibility of looking at a lot more options. It would have been nice if the Sports version at least offered the option to reinstate the seats but as someone pointed out there are now no rear windows so it would be even less fun back there.

A 2+2 GTE is still the ultimate Evora for me.

Edited by gigglebug on Thursday 19th October 10:11

smilo996

2,755 posts

169 months

Thursday 19th October 2017
quotequote all
The originally odd Evora design has now evolved sufficiently to make look as good as it goes.

Europa1

10,923 posts

187 months

Thursday 19th October 2017
quotequote all
Porsche911R said:
I would buy one at £80k

I just like the joke of them all sold like the Exige CUP where there is a choice and still open slots.

Like wise this is not sold out even if there are only making 60 cars.

Buyers are voting to keep away at these prices.

That does not make it a bad car , it just makes it too expensive.

TVR can launch a new car from scratch with all bespoke parts and a proper engine at £90k Lotus buy all the parts in, have an old engine and want this daft price !

I still have hopes for the 2020 Elise if it's priced right and not under powered but as it stands I cannot buy into a new Lotus at todays prices.
Your standards are slipping; you're normally in with this on the first page of comments.

hondansx

4,562 posts

224 months

Thursday 19th October 2017
quotequote all
Porsche911R said:
I would buy one at £80k

TVR can launch a new car from scratch with all bespoke parts and a proper engine at £90k Lotus buy all the parts in, have an old engine and want this daft price !
Hold on a second, TVR is completely unproven. You can't compare the two yet.

LotusOmega375D

7,580 posts

152 months

Thursday 19th October 2017
quotequote all
gigglebug said:
The question I'd be asking wouldn't necessarily be how it stacks up against it's rivals from other marques but how it stacks up against the Exige in it's highest spec. Is the Evora's ability worth the extra 20K plus over one and more importantly would I even be anywhere near talented enough to make use of any extra performance? Probably not.

I know they aren't the most practical but for me the Evora's back seating was the thing that would make me choose one over the equivalent Exige, and any other two seat sportscar. The fact that in this model it has been reduced to being merely that, just another 2 seat sports car, would naturally open up the possibility of looking at a lot more options. It would have been nice if the Sports version at least offered the option to reinstate the seats but as someone pointed out there are now no rear windows so it would be even less fun back there.

A 2+2 GTE is still the ultimate Evora for me.

Edited by gigglebug on Thursday 19th October 10:11
I believe that 2+2 is an option for this version using the Sparco seats. Also the rear windows can be reinstated. Time to get your cheque-book out?

PS: they only made four 2+2 GTEs and you're not having mine. wink

Shnozz

27,422 posts

270 months

Thursday 19th October 2017
quotequote all
Audemars said:
sidesauce said:
Whether that's true or not is based on two things. Firstly, if Lotus made as many cars as Porsche, maybe that metric would be different? Secondly, it doesn't matter if the world at large doesn't perceive it to be the case. Porsche's 'real-world' reputation isn't one of unreliability. Lotus's infamous acronym 'Lots Of Trouble, Ususally Serious' exists for a reason...

Edited by sidesauce on Thursday 19th October 09:16
That acronym is from people who are clueless about cars. Lotus engines are toyota engines so they are probably the most reliable sports/supercars cars out there.
Historically it was probably accurate. These days its a different picture, and certainly in the engine department.

I do wonder how many people who slate the interior of the Evora have actually been in one? There was v little to fault IMO, whether contrast to a Porker or any other marque for that matter. Materials were decent quality, fit was good, ergonomics far from bad.