RE: McLaren 720S: Driven
Discussion
I love the fact the the 720s looks are devisive, Mclaren have taken a brave decision to not follow the herd and forge their own path styling wise. You either get it or you dont.
I have over the years lost my faith in Ferrari as they have become very lazy. The 488 is a mild update on the 458, the Superfast is an update on the F12, the new Portofino an update on the Califonia. They have no pazzaz or real innovation in their styling anymore.
And with the introduction of turbocharging on their V8 engines, their have also now lost that unique engine sound.
Dynamically I think the 720s has the Ferrari licked. Its performance is more hypercar level than a supercar. The fact that a bone stock 720s on its less sticky tire has run a 9.9 sec qtr mile at over 141mph compared to a Lamborghini Perfomanti which ran a 10.7 at 127 on the same day with the same driver gives you one indicator of the performance gap. Now I know sprint times are not the be all but they paint part of a story
I have over the years lost my faith in Ferrari as they have become very lazy. The 488 is a mild update on the 458, the Superfast is an update on the F12, the new Portofino an update on the Califonia. They have no pazzaz or real innovation in their styling anymore.
And with the introduction of turbocharging on their V8 engines, their have also now lost that unique engine sound.
Dynamically I think the 720s has the Ferrari licked. Its performance is more hypercar level than a supercar. The fact that a bone stock 720s on its less sticky tire has run a 9.9 sec qtr mile at over 141mph compared to a Lamborghini Perfomanti which ran a 10.7 at 127 on the same day with the same driver gives you one indicator of the performance gap. Now I know sprint times are not the be all but they paint part of a story
blasos said:
I'm a big fan of Ferraris, but I've got to say that McLaren has nailed it here. I think it looks so sharp and next-generation, as well as being biblically fast (check out YouTube drag races).
Not a fan of the looks or more precisely the headlights but I fully agree the car is absolutely stonkingly quick. For all everyone says it's fast you just have no idea just how so until you drive one - it made the 12c feel somewhat lethargic afterwards on the drive back.However..... the 'problem' so to speak is that for me the car has ended up a bit too much imo as a warp speed GT car (frightening easy to go at loony speeds, comfortable to drive etc) rather than something like a 675 with its more raw edges smoothed off which was more what I personally would have wanted more. It's a tremendously capable car but probably not one I'd consider if I only had room for one sports car.
D200 said:
Interesting. Good to read an honest view.
Regarding the engine noise – do these sounds ‘worse’ than an MP4-12C or 650S etc.?
I got a drive in a MP4-12C and thought it sounded great. Read every review about how terrible they sounded but I thought it was perfect fine.
I also got a drive in a 458 with a 10k exhaust system but I thought it was too loud – sounded cool on startup but a bit too noisy – all volume - took away from it a bit I thought, it got tiresome. I preferred the 12C in respect to that – and this is the complete opposite to what I thought would be the case. Although I never drove a 458 with a standard exhaust - it probably would be better than the super loud 10k system
I drove the 12C, a 458 and a Huracan back to back on a track day, the 12C sounded the worst of the three, the Huracan the best but only if you thrashed it. I'd still rather own a 12C/650S out of those three... Regarding the engine noise – do these sounds ‘worse’ than an MP4-12C or 650S etc.?
I got a drive in a MP4-12C and thought it sounded great. Read every review about how terrible they sounded but I thought it was perfect fine.
I also got a drive in a 458 with a 10k exhaust system but I thought it was too loud – sounded cool on startup but a bit too noisy – all volume - took away from it a bit I thought, it got tiresome. I preferred the 12C in respect to that – and this is the complete opposite to what I thought would be the case. Although I never drove a 458 with a standard exhaust - it probably would be better than the super loud 10k system
tankplanker said:
drove the 12C, a 458 and a Huracan back to back on a track day, the 12C sounded the worst of the three, the Huracan the best but only if you thrashed it. I'd still rather own a 12C/650S out of those three...
Not sure if the 12C I was in had a sports exhaust but I thought it sounded greatI never drove or even been a Huracan but heard a few and I do think they sound better than a 12C or 458
On the 720S – it's side profile reminds of one of those Cizeta V16 supercars – and that isn’t a complement
As I say, would need to see one on the flesh but from photos not dying about them
D200 said:
Not sure if the 12C I was in had a sports exhaust but I thought it sounded great
I don't know if the 12C I drove had one or not but it sounded nowhere near as good as even a decent 6 cylinder like an Evora 400 or Cayman GTS, or even the VXR8 I did my sighting laps in. The noise from a 12C is far from terrible, just not what you'd expect out of an expensive sports car fitted with a V8 and not as good as the competition. I certainly wouldn't be holding onto a higher gear in the 12C just for the noise like I have in other cars. Not sure 720bhp in a supercar does sound unreal when you can pick up any amount of cars that had 500bhp from the factory for less than £10k, £15k getting a minter. Supercars have to go somewhere don't they?
If I had £250k I would have this over a Ferrari, but given a completely free hand I'd probably get a Tesla for everyday and something mental (radical, cobra, Ultima) for trackdays and road trips.
If I had £250k I would have this over a Ferrari, but given a completely free hand I'd probably get a Tesla for everyday and something mental (radical, cobra, Ultima) for trackdays and road trips.
isaldiri said:
blasos said:
I'm a big fan of Ferraris, but I've got to say that McLaren has nailed it here. I think it looks so sharp and next-generation, as well as being biblically fast (check out YouTube drag races).
Not a fan of the looks or more precisely the headlights but I fully agree the car is absolutely stonkingly quick. For all everyone says it's fast you just have no idea just how so until you drive one - it made the 12c feel somewhat lethargic afterwards on the drive back.However..... the 'problem' so to speak is that for me the car has ended up a bit too much imo as a warp speed GT car (frightening easy to go at loony speeds, comfortable to drive etc) rather than something like a 675 with its more raw edges smoothed off which was more what I personally would have wanted more. It's a tremendously capable car but probably not one I'd consider if I only had room for one sports car.
The 675 replacement will be along in a few year times, at that point you should compare it to the 675.
What I currently find really interesting at the moment is the current lack of group tests comparing the 720s with its contemporaries like the 488 and the Hurracan. We all know that Ferrari hates to have their cars in comparisons tests where there is a chance they may come out second best, are they currently running scared?
As for Lamborghini, I suspect a stock Hurracan would not see where a 720s went, the Aventador S might be a better competitor even though it sits in a class above the 720s. We already know that the 720s is a lot quicker than the Aventador, but the Lambo does have that engine. And to some that is enough to swing the vote the Lambo's way
Streetrod said:
I do find it odd when people continue to compare this to a 675, its a replacement for the 650s, its not a limited run car its the ordinary one. Which makes its capabilities all the more extraordinary.
The 675 replacement will be along in a few year times, at that point you should compare it to the 675.
What I currently find really interesting at the moment is the current lack of group tests comparing the 720s with its contemporaries like the 488 and the Hurracan. We all know that Ferrari hates to have their cars in comparisons tests where there is a chance they may come out second best, are they currently running scared?
As for Lamborghini, I suspect a stock Hurracan would not see where a 720s went, the Aventador S might be a better competitor even though it sits in a class above the 720s. We already know that the 720s is a lot quicker than the Aventador, but the Lambo does have that engine. And to some that is enough to swing the vote the Lambo's way
There is so much more to purchasing a supercar than outright speed. It's all about how it gets there, how it sounds, how it looks and how it makes you feel and in these areas the Aventador has the McLaren beaten. The Hurracan, to me, looks way more special than the 720s but I agree, the 720 has it beat on speed. The 675 replacement will be along in a few year times, at that point you should compare it to the 675.
What I currently find really interesting at the moment is the current lack of group tests comparing the 720s with its contemporaries like the 488 and the Hurracan. We all know that Ferrari hates to have their cars in comparisons tests where there is a chance they may come out second best, are they currently running scared?
As for Lamborghini, I suspect a stock Hurracan would not see where a 720s went, the Aventador S might be a better competitor even though it sits in a class above the 720s. We already know that the 720s is a lot quicker than the Aventador, but the Lambo does have that engine. And to some that is enough to swing the vote the Lambo's way
Streetrod said:
I do find it odd when people continue to compare this to a 675, its a replacement for the 650s, its not a limited run car its the ordinary one. Which makes its capabilities all the more extraordinary.
The 675 replacement will be along in a few year times, at that point you should compare it to the 675.
What I currently find really interesting at the moment is the current lack of group tests comparing the 720s with its contemporaries like the 488 and the Hurracan. We all know that Ferrari hates to have their cars in comparisons tests where there is a chance they may come out second best, are they currently running scared?
As for Lamborghini, I suspect a stock Hurracan would not see where a 720s went, the Aventador S might be a better competitor even though it sits in a class above the 720s. We already know that the 720s is a lot quicker than the Aventador, but the Lambo does have that engine. And to some that is enough to swing the vote the Lambo's way
To be perfectly honest, does it really matter if a 720S is 0.5 of a second quicker to 150mph [or whatever it is] than a 488 etc?The 675 replacement will be along in a few year times, at that point you should compare it to the 675.
What I currently find really interesting at the moment is the current lack of group tests comparing the 720s with its contemporaries like the 488 and the Hurracan. We all know that Ferrari hates to have their cars in comparisons tests where there is a chance they may come out second best, are they currently running scared?
As for Lamborghini, I suspect a stock Hurracan would not see where a 720s went, the Aventador S might be a better competitor even though it sits in a class above the 720s. We already know that the 720s is a lot quicker than the Aventador, but the Lambo does have that engine. And to some that is enough to swing the vote the Lambo's way
A 12C, 650S, 458, 488, Hurracan etc are all bonkers fast who cares if one is ever so slightly quicker?
How it feels, handles, looks and sounds are more important that outright performance
Fair enough, if one was substantially quicker than the other, but this is not the case. The 488 and 720 will have similar performance - if the 488 end up being slightly slower I suspect it would still be suffice for most
You could tune a GTR to 1200BHP and it will be faster than all these – but does that make it better?
Never you mind said:
Streetrod said:
I do find it odd when people continue to compare this to a 675, its a replacement for the 650s, its not a limited run car its the ordinary one. Which makes its capabilities all the more extraordinary.
The 675 replacement will be along in a few year times, at that point you should compare it to the 675.
What I currently find really interesting at the moment is the current lack of group tests comparing the 720s with its contemporaries like the 488 and the Hurracan. We all know that Ferrari hates to have their cars in comparisons tests where there is a chance they may come out second best, are they currently running scared?
As for Lamborghini, I suspect a stock Hurracan would not see where a 720s went, the Aventador S might be a better competitor even though it sits in a class above the 720s. We already know that the 720s is a lot quicker than the Aventador, but the Lambo does have that engine. And to some that is enough to swing the vote the Lambo's way
There is so much more to purchasing a supercar than outright speed. It's all about how it gets there, how it sounds, how it looks and how it makes you feel and in these areas the Aventador has the McLaren beaten. The Hurracan, to me, looks way more special than the 720s but I agree, the 720 has it beat on speed. The 675 replacement will be along in a few year times, at that point you should compare it to the 675.
What I currently find really interesting at the moment is the current lack of group tests comparing the 720s with its contemporaries like the 488 and the Hurracan. We all know that Ferrari hates to have their cars in comparisons tests where there is a chance they may come out second best, are they currently running scared?
As for Lamborghini, I suspect a stock Hurracan would not see where a 720s went, the Aventador S might be a better competitor even though it sits in a class above the 720s. We already know that the 720s is a lot quicker than the Aventador, but the Lambo does have that engine. And to some that is enough to swing the vote the Lambo's way
Personally, I find the Aventador to fundamentally flawed and too common to register with me as special and the Hurracan so uncomfortable to drive that it mars whatever other positive attributes it may have. But I totally understand why others like them
Edited by Streetrod on Friday 20th October 13:01
D200 said:
Streetrod said:
I do find it odd when people continue to compare this to a 675, its a replacement for the 650s, its not a limited run car its the ordinary one. Which makes its capabilities all the more extraordinary.
The 675 replacement will be along in a few year times, at that point you should compare it to the 675.
What I currently find really interesting at the moment is the current lack of group tests comparing the 720s with its contemporaries like the 488 and the Hurracan. We all know that Ferrari hates to have their cars in comparisons tests where there is a chance they may come out second best, are they currently running scared?
As for Lamborghini, I suspect a stock Hurracan would not see where a 720s went, the Aventador S might be a better competitor even though it sits in a class above the 720s. We already know that the 720s is a lot quicker than the Aventador, but the Lambo does have that engine. And to some that is enough to swing the vote the Lambo's way
To be perfectly honest, does it really matter if a 720S is 0.5 of a second quicker to 150mph [or whatever it is] than a 488 etc?The 675 replacement will be along in a few year times, at that point you should compare it to the 675.
What I currently find really interesting at the moment is the current lack of group tests comparing the 720s with its contemporaries like the 488 and the Hurracan. We all know that Ferrari hates to have their cars in comparisons tests where there is a chance they may come out second best, are they currently running scared?
As for Lamborghini, I suspect a stock Hurracan would not see where a 720s went, the Aventador S might be a better competitor even though it sits in a class above the 720s. We already know that the 720s is a lot quicker than the Aventador, but the Lambo does have that engine. And to some that is enough to swing the vote the Lambo's way
A 12C, 650S, 458, 488, Hurracan etc are all bonkers fast who cares if one is ever so slightly quicker?
How it feels, handles, looks and sounds are more important that outright performance
http://www.hrowen.co.uk/ecurie/used-mclaren/650s-c...
isaldiri said:
blasos said:
I'm a big fan of Ferraris, but I've got to say that McLaren has nailed it here. I think it looks so sharp and next-generation, as well as being biblically fast (check out YouTube drag races).
Not a fan of the looks or more precisely the headlights but I fully agree the car is absolutely stonkingly quick. For all everyone says it's fast you just have no idea just how so until you drive one - it made the 12c feel somewhat lethargic afterwards on the drive back.However..... the 'problem' so to speak is that for me the car has ended up a bit too much imo as a warp speed GT car (frightening easy to go at loony speeds, comfortable to drive etc) rather than something like a 675 with its more raw edges smoothed off which was more what I personally would have wanted more. It's a tremendously capable car but probably not one I'd consider if I only had room for one sports car.
To answer the question, is 720 hp too much on British roads, my answer is yes. Totally uninteresting to me. The ultimate tin top sports car, to me, would be 1000kg, or less, physically very narrow and very short, front engined, RWD and have no more than 250 hp/250 lb/ft with low gearing. Chuckability, care free flickability, fearless accessibility, feeling fast at speeds you can tell a policeman about
Edited by Johnny5hoods on Friday 20th October 12:58
D200 said:
Streetrod said:
I do find it odd when people continue to compare this to a 675, its a replacement for the 650s, its not a limited run car its the ordinary one. Which makes its capabilities all the more extraordinary.
The 675 replacement will be along in a few year times, at that point you should compare it to the 675.
What I currently find really interesting at the moment is the current lack of group tests comparing the 720s with its contemporaries like the 488 and the Hurracan. We all know that Ferrari hates to have their cars in comparisons tests where there is a chance they may come out second best, are they currently running scared?
As for Lamborghini, I suspect a stock Hurracan would not see where a 720s went, the Aventador S might be a better competitor even though it sits in a class above the 720s. We already know that the 720s is a lot quicker than the Aventador, but the Lambo does have that engine. And to some that is enough to swing the vote the Lambo's way
To be perfectly honest, does it really matter if a 720S is 0.5 of a second quicker to 150mph [or whatever it is] than a 488 etc?The 675 replacement will be along in a few year times, at that point you should compare it to the 675.
What I currently find really interesting at the moment is the current lack of group tests comparing the 720s with its contemporaries like the 488 and the Hurracan. We all know that Ferrari hates to have their cars in comparisons tests where there is a chance they may come out second best, are they currently running scared?
As for Lamborghini, I suspect a stock Hurracan would not see where a 720s went, the Aventador S might be a better competitor even though it sits in a class above the 720s. We already know that the 720s is a lot quicker than the Aventador, but the Lambo does have that engine. And to some that is enough to swing the vote the Lambo's way
A 12C, 650S, 458, 488, Hurracan etc are all bonkers fast who cares if one is ever so slightly quicker?
How it feels, handles, looks and sounds are more important that outright performance
Fair enough, if one was substantially quicker than the other, but this is not the case. The 488 and 720 will have similar performance - if the 488 end up being slightly slower I suspect it would still be suffice for most
You could tune a GTR to 1200BHP and it will be faster than all these – but does that make it better?
At the end its down to what pushes your buttons, I am just glad that we currently have such varied choices.
Your GTR example I am afraid is a red herring as virtually any car could be made to go faster with the right tuning. We are talking about factory standard cars here
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