Reducing Congestion - how would you do it?
Discussion
The M25 used to be a 3 lane motorway. Every t
t used to cruise in lane 2 making it a one lane motorway for anyone wishing to make progress, giving the associated train of red faced Mercedes and BMw drivers behind a Cavalier. So they added a lane with contraflows and major disruption for years.
Now every tt cruises in lane 2 and 3 leavng it a one lane motorway for those wishing to make progress, giving the associated train of red faced Mercedes, BMW and Audi drivers behind a Prius.
Before investing in any major road infrastructure improvements, invest in improvements in lane discipline and motorway congestion will ease without cost and delays associated with major road improvements.
Towns will always be ghastly places to drive. Too many people, too little space to make necessary improvements to the carriageways designed for horse and cart transport. I just have to either resign myself to traffic or the train / tube when reluctantly travelling to / in overpopulated stholes. There is no real answer without either restricting car use in town or making it more expensive than public transport - and even then it won't put some off.
IME, many large companies want to be in towns to benefit from good public transport links given the need these days to enable the necessary green transport policies.
t used to cruise in lane 2 making it a one lane motorway for anyone wishing to make progress, giving the associated train of red faced Mercedes and BMw drivers behind a Cavalier. So they added a lane with contraflows and major disruption for years.Now every t
t cruises in lane 2 and 3 leavng it a one lane motorway for those wishing to make progress, giving the associated train of red faced Mercedes, BMW and Audi drivers behind a Prius.Before investing in any major road infrastructure improvements, invest in improvements in lane discipline and motorway congestion will ease without cost and delays associated with major road improvements.
Towns will always be ghastly places to drive. Too many people, too little space to make necessary improvements to the carriageways designed for horse and cart transport. I just have to either resign myself to traffic or the train / tube when reluctantly travelling to / in overpopulated s
tholes. There is no real answer without either restricting car use in town or making it more expensive than public transport - and even then it won't put some off. IME, many large companies want to be in towns to benefit from good public transport links given the need these days to enable the necessary green transport policies.
Huge park and rides on the outskirts of the city, and an army of busses feeding them every 10 minutes or less. A sensible figure for parking there, say 4 quid for the whole day?.
Place it near a tube station for those who wish to connect onto the underground instead.
Provide incentives for businesses to stagger working hours and shift x amount of jobs to work from home.
Move a vast chunk of public sector jobs away from London centre.
Place it near a tube station for those who wish to connect onto the underground instead.
Provide incentives for businesses to stagger working hours and shift x amount of jobs to work from home.
Move a vast chunk of public sector jobs away from London centre.
1) Pedestrianise Town and City centres.
Take the centre point of any Town or city and where no first class public transport infrastructure exists draw a 'walkable radius' from there. So in the case of Taunton it would be about 1/2 a mile from the centre outwards.
Make parking provision on the out skirts and make it cheaper the further out you go.
London...
I'td be brave but ban everything inside the congestion charge zone. Make the whole city car free and only allow delivery vehicles in but they would be using special lanes on otherwise pedestrian streets.
It'd be painful and hard to start with but people will find solutions. People are good at that.
Less car-convenience means less cars. The infrastructure would have to improve in the cities and then it would spread.
2) More tele-working. 90% of office jobs can be done remotely.
My wife commutes 130 miles round trip a day for the period of interim work she is doing now and she reckons that 70-80% of the tasks could be done from her home office. The company has a policy of 'being in core hours'.
Companies should be offered tax breaks for workers who tele-work.
Take the centre point of any Town or city and where no first class public transport infrastructure exists draw a 'walkable radius' from there. So in the case of Taunton it would be about 1/2 a mile from the centre outwards.
Make parking provision on the out skirts and make it cheaper the further out you go.
London...
I'td be brave but ban everything inside the congestion charge zone. Make the whole city car free and only allow delivery vehicles in but they would be using special lanes on otherwise pedestrian streets.
It'd be painful and hard to start with but people will find solutions. People are good at that.
Less car-convenience means less cars. The infrastructure would have to improve in the cities and then it would spread.
2) More tele-working. 90% of office jobs can be done remotely.
My wife commutes 130 miles round trip a day for the period of interim work she is doing now and she reckons that 70-80% of the tasks could be done from her home office. The company has a policy of 'being in core hours'.
Companies should be offered tax breaks for workers who tele-work.
Stick Legs said:
More tele-working. 90% of office jobs can be done remotely.
My wife commutes 130 miles round trip a day for the period of interim work she is doing now and she reckons that 70-80% of the tasks could be done from her home office. The company has a policy of 'being in core hours'.
Companies should be offered tax breaks for workers who tele-work.
This.My wife commutes 130 miles round trip a day for the period of interim work she is doing now and she reckons that 70-80% of the tasks could be done from her home office. The company has a policy of 'being in core hours'.
Companies should be offered tax breaks for workers who tele-work.
However companies need to have a massive collective epiphany and actually allow this. It's ridiculous - I'm another one, 70 miles a day in dreadful M62 traffic, I have to get up at 6am to get in work for 8 (I need to leave at 6.20 which gets me here for about 7.10, when I then sleep in the car til 8).
My OH would do 70 miles each way, but works from home, we have a proper, purpose built office at home. She goes to her employers office about once a month.
The stupid thing is that me and another chap are the only people that work in the office over here on our team. I have no professional interaction with people here. All our team is in Gibraltar and I spend quite a bit of time over there every year. So what we've been doing is working a couple of days from home. Been doing it for ages now - nobody has even noticed or said a word. Saving a fortune. I get an hour and a half extra in bed. My internet is faster than it is at work. Our boss knows but we keep it quiet as it's not company policy - even the other members of our team don't know.
It's a UK culture that needs to change.
Stick Legs said:
1) Pedestrianise Town and City centres.
Take the centre point of any Town or city and where no first class public transport infrastructure exists draw a 'walkable radius' from there. So in the case of Taunton it would be about 1/2 a mile from the centre outwards.
Make parking provision on the out skirts and make it cheaper the further out you go.
It depends what you want city centres to be for. It would probably be the final nail in the coffin of the high street as a daytime venue, but wouldnt affect the night time economy so much. Take the centre point of any Town or city and where no first class public transport infrastructure exists draw a 'walkable radius' from there. So in the case of Taunton it would be about 1/2 a mile from the centre outwards.
Make parking provision on the out skirts and make it cheaper the further out you go.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/24/sing...
Singapore solution would probably work
The affluent city-state of 5.6 million people already imposes a quota on the number of vehicles sold and the number on its roads, and has avoided the massive traffic jams that choke other Asian cities.
Not a ban, just have a quota and annual auction for licenses to run your car on the road I probably shouldn't give our Govt any ideas
Singapore solution would probably work
The affluent city-state of 5.6 million people already imposes a quota on the number of vehicles sold and the number on its roads, and has avoided the massive traffic jams that choke other Asian cities.
Not a ban, just have a quota and annual auction for licenses to run your car on the road I probably shouldn't give our Govt any ideas
Well, my non-scientific assessment based on yesterday and today's commute is - the school traffic is a big part of the problem.
Even at 07:45 the roads are much clearer down here in sleepy Sussex, same travelling home last night.
My son (who travels to Canary Wharf every day by bus) also reports the same along the M25 + A2.
Totally anecdotal, but nevertheless true.
How's your traffic this half term week?
Even at 07:45 the roads are much clearer down here in sleepy Sussex, same travelling home last night.
My son (who travels to Canary Wharf every day by bus) also reports the same along the M25 + A2.
Totally anecdotal, but nevertheless true.
How's your traffic this half term week?
Probably repeating what has already been done but I have a few suggestions.
1. Invest in public transport and bring prices down. (this is really a must in my opinion) I travelled for years into Belfast on the train as my work was within walking distance of station and it really changed my quality of life over driving.
2. (As already said and maybe the best suggestion) Out of town car parks with free/very cheap shuttle bus network.
3. Ban non electric cars from city centres. (again I think this is becoming an increasing "no brainer.")
4. Improved and SEPERATE cycle network within built up areas. Belfast has opened a few separated cycle ways and it would be the only way I'd consider commuting on a bike if I lived in a city.
As a side note, I always wondered that over all the years of congestion in the UK its a wonder that we haven't managed to sort the problem. I honestly think the government is trailing its feet due to the sheer revenue it makes from fossil fuel burning vehicles and any vehicle that pays tax.
1. Invest in public transport and bring prices down. (this is really a must in my opinion) I travelled for years into Belfast on the train as my work was within walking distance of station and it really changed my quality of life over driving.
2. (As already said and maybe the best suggestion) Out of town car parks with free/very cheap shuttle bus network.
3. Ban non electric cars from city centres. (again I think this is becoming an increasing "no brainer.")
4. Improved and SEPERATE cycle network within built up areas. Belfast has opened a few separated cycle ways and it would be the only way I'd consider commuting on a bike if I lived in a city.
As a side note, I always wondered that over all the years of congestion in the UK its a wonder that we haven't managed to sort the problem. I honestly think the government is trailing its feet due to the sheer revenue it makes from fossil fuel burning vehicles and any vehicle that pays tax.
1 £5 charge, up front every time you start a journey. This would stop e.g. my neighbour driving 5 minutes to avoid a 1 minute walk. It would also stop me driving 15 minutes to work when I could cycle it in 20 mins.
2 if you leave your car on the road rather than a driveway (and not in a bay) then it costs £3 per night. This stops all residential roads being turned into a series of chicanes. If you park such that the road is blocked, your car is towed away and stored at your expense.
3 Make failure to use indicators fineable
4 Compulsory retests every 3 years
5 When roads have instructions painted on them, make sure it is also on an overhead gantry or sign at the side, because in heavy traffic you cannot always see the instruction until too late, forcing a lane change
2 if you leave your car on the road rather than a driveway (and not in a bay) then it costs £3 per night. This stops all residential roads being turned into a series of chicanes. If you park such that the road is blocked, your car is towed away and stored at your expense.
3 Make failure to use indicators fineable
4 Compulsory retests every 3 years
5 When roads have instructions painted on them, make sure it is also on an overhead gantry or sign at the side, because in heavy traffic you cannot always see the instruction until too late, forcing a lane change
RDMcG said:
How about all commercial deliveries to be night time ? Traffic never stops anyway and would spread the load. 10pm to 5am
The Sainsburys in my town gets 27 deliveries a day to keep it stocked... that's just over one per hour, for one shop. Try squeezing that into a 7 hour period and you realise why all these ideas about only allowing lorries on the road at night are patently ridiculous. There's also a Tesco Extra nearby, and a Waitrose around the corner, which also need supplying.
GIYess said:
Probably repeating what has already been done but I have a few suggestions.
1. Invest in public transport and bring prices down. (this is really a must in my opinion) I travelled for years into Belfast on the train as my work was within walking distance of station and it really changed my quality of life over driving.
2. (As already said and maybe the best suggestion) Out of town car parks with free/very cheap shuttle bus network.
3. Ban non electric cars from city centres. (again I think this is becoming an increasing "no brainer.")
4. Improved and SEPERATE cycle network within built up areas. Belfast has opened a few separated cycle ways and it would be the only way I'd consider commuting on a bike if I lived in a city.
As a side note, I always wondered that over all the years of congestion in the UK its a wonder that we haven't managed to sort the problem. I honestly think the government is trailing its feet due to the sheer revenue it makes from fossil fuel burning vehicles and any vehicle that pays tax.
1. Ok. Yet in London, today, there are massive areas serviced only by a bus line at best. These are unreliable and slow, often stuck in traffic and some of them are far from "green".1. Invest in public transport and bring prices down. (this is really a must in my opinion) I travelled for years into Belfast on the train as my work was within walking distance of station and it really changed my quality of life over driving.
2. (As already said and maybe the best suggestion) Out of town car parks with free/very cheap shuttle bus network.
3. Ban non electric cars from city centres. (again I think this is becoming an increasing "no brainer.")
4. Improved and SEPERATE cycle network within built up areas. Belfast has opened a few separated cycle ways and it would be the only way I'd consider commuting on a bike if I lived in a city.
As a side note, I always wondered that over all the years of congestion in the UK its a wonder that we haven't managed to sort the problem. I honestly think the government is trailing its feet due to the sheer revenue it makes from fossil fuel burning vehicles and any vehicle that pays tax.
2. How far for a large city like London or Manchester?
3. Come again? Conveniently forgetting that the production of EVs is more polluting than that of traditional vehicles, why should be private transport, that represents a fractional component of city traffic, be the one penalised? Why, as some suggested, not starting with trolley buses, trams and more tube lines (by the way, ever tried to measure the air quality in a tube station?
4. As a cyclist....hell no! Those who have been built are badly designed, slow and inefficient. A person died no later than last Friday in central London, 100yds from St. Paul, due to the poor road layout introduced with the advent of what you are advocating.
You seriously want to reduce congestion, and maybe pollution? Improve the road layout, with fewer "traffic calming" restrictions, take traffic lights away from roundabouts (misses completely the point and look, in the rest of Europe they manage to drive around without killing themselves). Make the roads more free-flowing and at the same time build a network of really functioning and well designed public transport.
And if really you want to see the cars disappearing, why not to dig a network of underground tunnels like for example in Paris, allowing you to cross, without impediment the city north-south and east-west? How long does it take for a car leaving central London to reach Dover? How long would it take if it was able to get on an underground tunnel at, say King's Cross, like the train does, and re-emerge on the m25?
Enricogto said:
You seriously want to reduce congestion, and maybe pollution? Improve the road layout, with fewer "traffic calming" restrictions, take traffic lights away from roundabouts (misses completely the point and look, in the rest of Europe they manage to drive around without killing themselves). Make the roads more free-flowing and at the same time build a network of really functioning and well designed public transport.
Agreed plus how would banning ICE cars but allowing EV reduce congestion? Obviously initially it would as we don't all have EVs to clog up the roads but once everyone has one then the congestion will be the same.Johnnytheboy said:
Stick Legs said:
1) Pedestrianise Town and City centres.
Take the centre point of any Town or city and where no first class public transport infrastructure exists draw a 'walkable radius' from there. So in the case of Taunton it would be about 1/2 a mile from the centre outwards.
Make parking provision on the out skirts and make it cheaper the further out you go.
It depends what you want city centres to be for. It would probably be the final nail in the coffin of the high street as a daytime venue, but wouldnt affect the night time economy so much. Take the centre point of any Town or city and where no first class public transport infrastructure exists draw a 'walkable radius' from there. So in the case of Taunton it would be about 1/2 a mile from the centre outwards.
Make parking provision on the out skirts and make it cheaper the further out you go.
If the towns were pedestrianised then the whole experience would be nicer, the shops could open on to the street and people could begin to appreciate the town for what it is. There is some really pleasant architecture and historic buildings in our county towns which are invisible as to stand back and see it would mean being in the middle of the road.
We should not assume that not being able to park out front of the shops means no one goes there.
The town centre could become a 'roofless mall'. Many town would lend themselves to glass awnings down the middle of what used to be roads, allowing all weather access.
Stick Legs said:
I'm convinced that if the town centres were pedestrianised they would improve. What kills the towns currently is a narrow crowded pavement, and kids having to be kept close because of traffic.
If the towns were pedestrianised then the whole experience would be nicer, the shops could open on to the street and people could begin to appreciate the town for what it is. There is some really pleasant architecture and historic buildings in our county towns which are invisible as to stand back and see it would mean being in the middle of the road.
We should not assume that not being able to park out front of the shops means no one goes there.
The town centre could become a 'roofless mall'. Many town would lend themselves to glass awnings down the middle of what used to be roads, allowing all weather access.
If only someone had made that experiment before...ah wait, they have! In Italy many city centres have reduced access for resident with disabilities only (ZTL). The result? The high street is well and truly dead, much to the benefit of large shopping malls built outside town. How do you get there? By car only, with the result of having just increased and moved out congestion. If the towns were pedestrianised then the whole experience would be nicer, the shops could open on to the street and people could begin to appreciate the town for what it is. There is some really pleasant architecture and historic buildings in our county towns which are invisible as to stand back and see it would mean being in the middle of the road.
We should not assume that not being able to park out front of the shops means no one goes there.
The town centre could become a 'roofless mall'. Many town would lend themselves to glass awnings down the middle of what used to be roads, allowing all weather access.
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