Reducing Congestion - how would you do it?

[Leroy902]

Aa above. Public transport improvements. It's st.

[RacerMDR]

enforce the Uber Ban - they're everywhere , low driving standard........stopping randomly.....it's dangerous I tell ye, dangerous

[99dndd]

Big, free carparks on the edge of cities. Free public transport within the city limits.

£2 charge to drive a car into a city, logged by ANPR and added on to your annual vehicle tax.

[Dixy]

Increase the cost of residents parking to £10 per day and make all A roads no parking at all times. Half of the congestion is because of roads clogged up being used as car parks.

[Wait Here Until Green Light Shows]

Definitely make public transport a (much) cheaper option.
Give employees a flexi working policy that they feel they can actually use.
Move HQ's out of town centres.
Stop trying to make a motorcycle license almost impossible to obtain.
School buses that are a cheaper option than parents dropping them off in the 4x4.

[blearyeyedboy]

Two ideas in addition to above:

1) Contentious... but ban children from arriving at school in private cars.

Parents must drop their kids off/collect them from a less central area, like a park and ride scheme. Otherwise, offer subsidies for child carrying bicycles.

Buses transport kids in and out of school.

Exceptions must be explained very well or face fines.

It'd never happen... but it's striking how much better traffic flow is during school holidays.

2) Join up public transport options.

I'm aware that many big cities in the UK ban cyclists from using buses or trains unless they've got a fold-up one. When I was in Seattle, buses had cycle racks on the front. It worked very well indeed.

[RacerMDR]

Carlton Banks said:

Spent the last 10 years living in London and congestion has increased greatly.

Without doing real analysis I believe it is down to a few things such as:

1. Traffic light phasing - too many major lights have either phasing for too long or too short

2. Introduction of Bus and cycle lanes - the space for other vehicles has greatly reduced

3. Constant road maintenance across for repairs or install of utilities causing diversions

4. Cyclists - sorry!

5. Cost of rail / tube

6. Empty buses constantly running

100% nail on the head.........(and Uber drivers) - I'm doing 10 miles through middle of London and back every day.

The embankment - is now so narrow - if there is anything larger than a Transit - there isn't room for a motorbike to get past.

[austinsmirk]

Dr Tad Winslow said:

Remove bus lanes. I always wonder why im sat there in a massive queue of traffic with an empty lane to my left, maybe one bus every 5 minutes goes down there. I'm sure my trip to work is more important to their trip to the methadone clinic

see also

"peasant wagon" or "bus w anchor's".


joking aside it'd be good if public transport was cheap. I tried to get on a bus once for a laugh after a drunk night out with my wife in our local town back to our village. The bus fare for two of us was more expensive than jumping in a taxi, queuing at the adjacent rank.

So I declined the bus and got in the taxi. Ridiculous.

[J4CKO]

Carlton Banks said:

Spent the last 10 years living in London and congestion has increased greatly.

Without doing real analysis I believe it is down to a few things such as:

1. Traffic light phasing - too many major lights have either phasing for too long or too short

2. Introduction of Bus and cycle lanes - the space for other vehicles has greatly reduced

3. Constant road maintenance across for repairs or install of utilities causing diversions

4. Cyclists - sorry!

5. Cost of rail / tube

6. Empty buses constantly running

Cyclists, really, ?

Ok, put all those folk on bikes into a car and see whether the situation improves, yes cyclists get in the way of car drivers sometimes but they take up far less road and parking spaces.

You cant get cyclists of the road to make it marginally easier for car drivers, those people still need to get to work or wherever else they are going, in London they generally wont be recreational cyclists, just those that dont want the grind of public transport or that know that a car is not a viable option in a densely populated city.

Imagine if everyone was on bikes and just you were in a car, I suspect there would be a lot less queuing for you. You can get six people on bikes in the space an average car takes, probably more as you dont need a lot of space around them, hence why places like India and Vietnam move a lot more people, they dont all feel the need or have the means for a premium SUV, they have a bike or a moped, smaller and more maneuverable, this is the crux of the issue.

In town and city centres, it is cars that are the problem but the whole debate seems to be, how can I make my journey, in my car more pleasant and quicker, never the thought you may be part of the problem and people using other modes of transport part of the answer.

I love cars and driving, they are great for moving people and stuff over long distances but utter crap in busy places, I see all the X5's, Ranger Rovers and
the like round here driving half a mile, there is the option, if able, to not use it, it is acceptable, I just walk or cycle, much less agro most of the time.

[SonicShadow]

Well, it's only taken two pages for the anti-cyclist vs cyclist debate to start. Well done PH!

[Zetec-S]

I know it would be very controversial, but raise the minimum age for driving. I'd say at least 21, but you'd probably have to phase it in (so raise to 18 in 2 years, 19 in 4 years, etc) The aim would be to change the mindset of a whole generation so they no longer look at the car as their default mode of transportation.

Obviously this would need to be backed up with significant investment in public transport, but if people had no choice then they'd get used to it and so by the time they are old enough to drive, they are already used to commuting/shopping/visiting people without going by car, so might well decide to continue.

Obviously this will never happen as (a) it would be political suicide for any government, (b) public transport wouldn't cope, (c) it would probably be unworkable with too many youngsters 'stranded', especially in the early days of implementation, and (d) plenty of other reasons I expect PHers to point out

[blearyeyedboy]

Oh, and come up with motorised but narrower vehicles with a roof for people who don't want to be bikers.

I'll have a Carver One, if anyone's offering.

[phil4]

3 pronged approach:

1) Improve roads and junctions. Where I am, new roads would help, as would improving junctions. Eg. Hard should and extra lane on the A34 from the M4 to the M40. Improved junctions on the A34 itself (longer on/off slip roads, bigger roundabouts, less traffic lights), And some major roads that skip Oxford and the A34 going north to south (and vice versa). Each and every junction that gets a traffic jam should be analysed and rebuilt to remove it as much as possible.

2) Improve driving. Get rid of the ditherers and the 50mph club. Form some sort of Police unit whose aim is to get traffic moving, not security, or typical policing. The number of times I see people plodding along at 50mph on the A34, being overtaken by HGVs doing 56mph. It's a 70mph limit, use it.

3) Stop pretending the existing roads can cater for public transport (eg busses), and cyclists. Both are fine if they're moved out of the way, and don't either slow other traffic or be slowed by it. Botley road into Oxford is a great example, where the bus lane ends part way down the road. The same for cyclists and cycle lanes. Either widen the road and do it properly, or don't do it at all. Amsterdam is a good example of city with car, tram, cycle and ped all sharing very wide roads.

In my area, do those 3 things and you'd get somewhere. It's cost a fortune (because for some reason despite the low pay of road workers, they cost a fortune).

[PTF]

Huge investment in public transport, while keeping ticket prices sensible (good luck with that one).

In the meantime, easier to implement would be:

Encourage the usage of motorcycles/scooters. Free motorcycle/scooter VED (currently it's about £80 depending on engine size). Dedicated and secure (manned) motorcycle parking in inner cities. And a general encouragement through education and advertising that motorcycles are an alternative to driving everywhere. Currently they're seen as a leisure activity. This needs to change.

Corporation tax incentives for companies that encourage employees to work at home. This could also be encouraged through an increased personal tax allowance to cover utilities if working for X days per week at home. Fundamentally if people don't need to be in an office then that cuts commuting to zero.

All school children (within reason) are to be taken to/from school by bus from the age of 11. This includes private schools. Certainly there should be a ban on driving into/out of urban areas for school pick-up/drop-off.

A shift away from 9-5 operating hours. My job lets me get to work late/leave late, or start early/finish early. It makes a huge difference. Spread the load across the day more then the problem goes away.

[blearyeyedboy]

Zetec-S said:

I know it would be very controversial, but raise the minimum age for driving. I'd say at least 21, but you'd probably have to phase it in (so raise to 18 in 2 years, 19 in 4 years, etc) The aim would be to change the mindset of a whole generation so they no longer look at the car as their default mode of transportation.

Obviously this would need to be backed up with significant investment in public transport, but if people had no choice then they'd get used to it and so by the time they are old enough to drive, they are already used to commuting/shopping/visiting people without going by car, so might well decide to continue.

Obviously this will never happen as (a) it would be political suicide for any government, (b) public transport wouldn't cope, (c) it would probably be unworkable with too many youngsters 'stranded', especially in the early days of implementation, and (d) plenty of other reasons I expect PHers to point out

It's an interesting thought but wouldn't work at all for rural areas. (e.g., How would that work for a 19 year old living in the middle of the Scottish Highlands, or other remote place where public transport is rubbish?) You might ban under 21's from driving in built-up areas, though.

[PTF]

blearyeyedboy said:

Oh, and come up with motorised but narrower vehicles with a roof for people who don't want to be bikers.

I'll have a Carver One, if anyone's offering.

Here's an example of what i'm on about in terms of bikes being viewed as a leisure activity that Bikers do. It's not about "being a biker", it's about picking the most suitable form of transport for your needs. If a narrow vehicle that can filter through traffic, return 70mpg, cost nothing to park and cheap to buy is the best form of transport, why does that also come with having to adopt the "i'm a biker" label?

I'm sure not everyone wants to give it a go, and it's not always suitable for rain/wind/snow, but even if 10% of car drivers switched to a bike for commuting we'd all be much happier.

[Torquey]

99dndd said:

Big, free carparks on the edge of cities. Free public transport within the city limits.

Interesting suggestion about car parks. That would work very well in my area and there is sufficient free space.


Slightly more obscure - I'd like to make my relay my driveway to accommodate 2 cars, rather than park 1 on the road. The council insist I use more expensive permeable materials nowadays. Instead of this they should be incentivising people to park off the road and make this easier.

[Zetec-S]

blearyeyedboy said:

It's an interesting thought but wouldn't work at all for rural areas. (e.g., How would that work for a 19 year old living in the middle of the Scottish Highlands, or other remote place where public transport is rubbish?) You might ban under 21's from driving in built-up areas, though.

Yep, to be honest it would have screwed me over when I was younger as I grew up in a village with only 2 buses a day. Perhaps introduce a form of 'means testing' for 17-21 year olds if they want to apply for a licence?

[rxe]

SonicShadow said:

Get people on public transport. There is no realistic way to reduce congestion on the roads without getting people out of cars.

This.

There is no other answer. A week in India is instructive. They've built massive roads, and the local drivers are two to a lane already, and on the hard shoulder, and on the earth next to the hard shoulder. With all that, the traffic is at a standstill. This is what happens if everyone decides to travel by car because there is no alternative. My hotel was about 6 km from the office - it took 2 hours each way. After the first day, it was "I don't care how awful the train is, it must be better". There was no train. Stuff it, I thought 6K is short enough, I'll run it. No pavements.

Public transport needs to provide a decent alternative. It's pretty easy in places like London because the density is such that you leave your house, walk a few hundred yards to a tube, and you're off. Everywhere else it is much harder. Crossrail will be interesting - once that exists, I have no idea why people will drive up the M4 into London as a commute. Sure if you're a plumber and need tonnes gear, you'll still do it.

The big challenge is the end points. I live near Maidenhead. We're going to be able to get to Liverpool St in 45 minutes or so. Brilliant. The only problem is that it is fecking impossible to get to Maidenhead Station in the morning at the moment, and once you're there you can't park. Well I can, because I have a lock up, but that's a different story.

Planning needs to grow up as well. We can't carry on sticking vast offices with no infrastructure in the middle of nowhere. Otherwise the people who work there will have no alternative but to drive.

Oh yes, schools. Change the rules so that you go to the school nearest you. At the same time, address the crapness of some schools. Kids being driven across London (past schools) to go somewhere else as an instrument of social policy is beyond insane.

[Shakermaker]

Sensible amendments to some major junctions around my way would be a relatively low cost way of reducing a lot of congestion that I see at peak times.

The junctions off the M23 at Gatwick, Crawley and Horsham all need improving, as do some of the roundabouts along the A264.

Whilst it is true that a roundabout should be able to handle a higher amount of traffic than a regular junction, the actual use of the roundabouts in many of these places mean that the high volume traffic flow is having to give way to areas of lesser traffic volume too often; or, two high-volume roads are crossing each other and causing unnecessary congestion. Properly separated lanes and routes for these would allow traffic to continue to flow in both sections without the need for additional traffic lights which stop/start all the time on what can otherwise be a decent stretch of road. I am sure the same happens at many other junctions too around the country but these are the ones that I use the most often.

Clearer designation of which lanes go in which direction at upcoming junctions as well, to reduce the number of times people get most of the way past a queue and then have to push in (which is separate to the people who knowingly push in) - particularly an issue I see with lorry drivers from out of the area who won't know better that the lanes are designated specifically until they have to change.