RE: BMW M5 (E39): PH Heroes
Discussion
Rat_Fink_67 said:
In your opinion of course. Because someone thinks an auto suits a character of a car better than a manual doesn't mean they are kidding themselves. There is no right or wrong answer, you just go with your preference. Alpina sold plenty of B10s off the back of people wanting an automatic option. Like i said before, I like the E39 M5 (although my favourite is an E34), but I wouldn't judge any of it's rivals purely by transmission type. Just as I don't think a Lotus Carlton would suit being an auto, I think the E55 is perfectly matched to being torque converter equipped. And in my experience there's no lack on involvement in a (conservatively estimated) 469bhp saloon when the pedal goes to the floor.
I only meant kidding themselves in regards to thinking that would satisfy someone who craved the involvement of a manual.
t superficial article.Lovely cars, but I would say that. Lusted after one since BMW Car did an article of an Imola Red one on launch back in December 1998.
I got mine just under a year ago, and have since spent over £6k on upkeep and improvements.
They really aren't cheap to run - a water pump is around £700, brakes all round are over £1k, tyres are £700+ for a set of Michelins, a full service will be over £600 and then other bits and pieces add up.
I've also had to have my diff refurbished, new suspension arms, new prop shaft bearing, new thermostat, new alternator and belts, welding near seat belt anchors and rust removal and respray on the rear arches.
It is back with my BMW specialist at the moment, needing a new viscous fan as the current one was always on and will be getting an engine flush and an Inspection 2 service. It then needs a full wheel alignment and geometry setup now to drive spot on.
Mine has done 170k, but has full history with lots spent on maintenance and upkeep. I am a firm believer of buying a car with higher mileage that has been pampered, rather than a low miler that's been neglected.
And be aware of buying a cheap one (£5k - £6k mark). You will spend the same again, if not more, getting it up to a decent standard.
I got mine just under a year ago, and have since spent over £6k on upkeep and improvements.
They really aren't cheap to run - a water pump is around £700, brakes all round are over £1k, tyres are £700+ for a set of Michelins, a full service will be over £600 and then other bits and pieces add up.
I've also had to have my diff refurbished, new suspension arms, new prop shaft bearing, new thermostat, new alternator and belts, welding near seat belt anchors and rust removal and respray on the rear arches.
It is back with my BMW specialist at the moment, needing a new viscous fan as the current one was always on and will be getting an engine flush and an Inspection 2 service. It then needs a full wheel alignment and geometry setup now to drive spot on.
Mine has done 170k, but has full history with lots spent on maintenance and upkeep. I am a firm believer of buying a car with higher mileage that has been pampered, rather than a low miler that's been neglected.
And be aware of buying a cheap one (£5k - £6k mark). You will spend the same again, if not more, getting it up to a decent standard.
I probably have as much experience of the E39 M5 as anyone, having driven 110,000 miles in one over a 2 year period back in 2003/4.
I would say that of all the cars I have had, this is still the one that for me was the stand-out all-encompassing best-of-all-time vehicle. I have had a decent range of highly rated cars before and since, including the Z3M (stop laughing it was way better than people remember), RS4 (B4), a couple of 997S's. AMG C63, E55, BMW I8 and one-rung-down vehicles such as the S-Type V8, BMW 540 V8, current model Golf R and original 60 cylinder 328i. There is for me only one other vehicle on that list I hold in the same regard as the old M5.
The thing about the E39 was it was so utterly complete. The engine has a wonderful offbeat grumble a bit like a multi-cylinder Ducati yet was completely smooth at all revs without a hint of strain. I never took it on a circuit, but I probably drive as hard as anyone yet I never had any brake issues. It certainly handled better than the E55 and C63 and was totally engaging, yet you could drive for 800 miles in it and step out as fresh as at the start of the journey.
In 110,000 nothing broke, fell of or needed replacement except for rear tyres ever 6,000 miles (or every 5 weeks in my case) - not even the clutch.
I don't think BMW's age as well as Merc's so those who predict big bills might well be right, but I can tell you for a fact (and i generally prefer automatics) that the E55 simply isn't in the same league as a driving proposition. If you get the chance to get a good one at a sensible price - take it.
Incidentally I did over 100,000 miles in the S-type V8 too and that was vastly under-rated so I suspect the S Type-R is a thoroughly decent car too - the only reason I had the standard V8 was that the supercharger in the R sounded exactly like standing on a cat.
Now in the spirit of starting a fresh argument - I have the latest model BMW 540i x-drive, and its crap
I would say that of all the cars I have had, this is still the one that for me was the stand-out all-encompassing best-of-all-time vehicle. I have had a decent range of highly rated cars before and since, including the Z3M (stop laughing it was way better than people remember), RS4 (B4), a couple of 997S's. AMG C63, E55, BMW I8 and one-rung-down vehicles such as the S-Type V8, BMW 540 V8, current model Golf R and original 60 cylinder 328i. There is for me only one other vehicle on that list I hold in the same regard as the old M5.
The thing about the E39 was it was so utterly complete. The engine has a wonderful offbeat grumble a bit like a multi-cylinder Ducati yet was completely smooth at all revs without a hint of strain. I never took it on a circuit, but I probably drive as hard as anyone yet I never had any brake issues. It certainly handled better than the E55 and C63 and was totally engaging, yet you could drive for 800 miles in it and step out as fresh as at the start of the journey.
In 110,000 nothing broke, fell of or needed replacement except for rear tyres ever 6,000 miles (or every 5 weeks in my case) - not even the clutch.
I don't think BMW's age as well as Merc's so those who predict big bills might well be right, but I can tell you for a fact (and i generally prefer automatics) that the E55 simply isn't in the same league as a driving proposition. If you get the chance to get a good one at a sensible price - take it.
Incidentally I did over 100,000 miles in the S-type V8 too and that was vastly under-rated so I suspect the S Type-R is a thoroughly decent car too - the only reason I had the standard V8 was that the supercharger in the R sounded exactly like standing on a cat.
Now in the spirit of starting a fresh argument - I have the latest model BMW 540i x-drive, and its crap
pSyCoSiS said:
Lovely cars, but I would say that. Lusted after one since BMW Car did an article of an Imola Red one on launch back in December 1998.
I got mine just under a year ago, and have since spent over £6k on upkeep and improvements.
They really aren't cheap to run - a water pump is around £700, brakes all round are over £1k, tyres are £700+ for a set of Michelins, a full service will be over £600 and then other bits and pieces add up.
I've also had to have my diff refurbished, new suspension arms, new prop shaft bearing, new thermostat, new alternator and belts, welding near seat belt anchors and rust removal and respray on the rear arches.
It is back with my BMW specialist at the moment, needing a new viscous fan as the current one was always on and will be getting an engine flush and an Inspection 2 service. It then needs a full wheel alignment and geometry setup now to drive spot on.
Mine has done 170k, but has full history with lots spent on maintenance and upkeep. I am a firm believer of buying a car with higher mileage that has been pampered, rather than a low miler that's been neglected.
And be aware of buying a cheap one (£5k - £6k mark). You will spend the same again, if not more, getting it up to a decent standard.
They ain't cheap to run but I spent a lot less than that for those parts. It pays dividends to source your own parts.I got mine just under a year ago, and have since spent over £6k on upkeep and improvements.
They really aren't cheap to run - a water pump is around £700, brakes all round are over £1k, tyres are £700+ for a set of Michelins, a full service will be over £600 and then other bits and pieces add up.
I've also had to have my diff refurbished, new suspension arms, new prop shaft bearing, new thermostat, new alternator and belts, welding near seat belt anchors and rust removal and respray on the rear arches.
It is back with my BMW specialist at the moment, needing a new viscous fan as the current one was always on and will be getting an engine flush and an Inspection 2 service. It then needs a full wheel alignment and geometry setup now to drive spot on.
Mine has done 170k, but has full history with lots spent on maintenance and upkeep. I am a firm believer of buying a car with higher mileage that has been pampered, rather than a low miler that's been neglected.
And be aware of buying a cheap one (£5k - £6k mark). You will spend the same again, if not more, getting it up to a decent standard.
I bought mine over 5 years ago now with 72k miles on it for £5750. It's now on 87k miles and hasn't skinted me yet. New fuel lines & diff. seals were over £1k though, cam sensors were about £300, then the alternator was about £400 fitted.
However, I changed the starter myself for £73, the headlamp adjusters for £18 and am sure I got a set of Continental Sport Contacts for about £600.
I toyed with the idea of an X308 XJR but the auto put me off as well as the supercharger whine. Ideally I'd have both as well as a stack of other cars too !
However, I changed the starter myself for £73, the headlamp adjusters for £18 and am sure I got a set of Continental Sport Contacts for about £600.
I toyed with the idea of an X308 XJR but the auto put me off as well as the supercharger whine. Ideally I'd have both as well as a stack of other cars too !
Patrick Bateman said:
pSyCoSiS said:
Lovely cars, but I would say that. Lusted after one since BMW Car did an article of an Imola Red one on launch back in December 1998.
I got mine just under a year ago, and have since spent over £6k on upkeep and improvements.
They really aren't cheap to run - a water pump is around £700, brakes all round are over £1k, tyres are £700+ for a set of Michelins, a full service will be over £600 and then other bits and pieces add up.
I've also had to have my diff refurbished, new suspension arms, new prop shaft bearing, new thermostat, new alternator and belts, welding near seat belt anchors and rust removal and respray on the rear arches.
It is back with my BMW specialist at the moment, needing a new viscous fan as the current one was always on and will be getting an engine flush and an Inspection 2 service. It then needs a full wheel alignment and geometry setup now to drive spot on.
Mine has done 170k, but has full history with lots spent on maintenance and upkeep. I am a firm believer of buying a car with higher mileage that has been pampered, rather than a low miler that's been neglected.
And be aware of buying a cheap one (£5k - £6k mark). You will spend the same again, if not more, getting it up to a decent standard.
They ain't cheap to run but I spent a lot less than that for those parts. It pays dividends to source your own parts.I got mine just under a year ago, and have since spent over £6k on upkeep and improvements.
They really aren't cheap to run - a water pump is around £700, brakes all round are over £1k, tyres are £700+ for a set of Michelins, a full service will be over £600 and then other bits and pieces add up.
I've also had to have my diff refurbished, new suspension arms, new prop shaft bearing, new thermostat, new alternator and belts, welding near seat belt anchors and rust removal and respray on the rear arches.
It is back with my BMW specialist at the moment, needing a new viscous fan as the current one was always on and will be getting an engine flush and an Inspection 2 service. It then needs a full wheel alignment and geometry setup now to drive spot on.
Mine has done 170k, but has full history with lots spent on maintenance and upkeep. I am a firm believer of buying a car with higher mileage that has been pampered, rather than a low miler that's been neglected.
And be aware of buying a cheap one (£5k - £6k mark). You will spend the same again, if not more, getting it up to a decent standard.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I think this reflects personal opinion:- all these saloons that 'dwarf its stats' are irrelevant, the M5 is sub 5 seconds to 60 and yet its best performance is 30-70 or 70-120 or 120-> i.e. it is fantastically capable, and a modern car with better stats becomes irrelevant, how much more pleasure is there in a 3.9 to 60 than a 4-5 sec 0-60? none, there is so much more to a car than its stats, and anyone who buys a car on that basis has a different set of priorities to those who do otherwise...
- E55 'beasts' the M5 - mmm not quite sure what that is meant to mean, but the E55 doesn't handle as well, has less soul, and lacks a manual gearbox - for some that won't matter, but for me it writes off the E55 - personal needs / views
the thing is, that we all have different views on cars and that is a part of what makes Pistonheads fun, there will always be those who want new / clever / faster / etc... and for them the e39 M5 is out of date and boring, but for others they want classic, timeless, character, personality and all-round excellence, for them the M5 is one of the best ever cars...
it is no different to someone prefering a fashion watch v. a handbuilt manual traditional watch - there is room fo both...
pSyCoSiS said:
Were they genuine OEM BMW parts? You are right, I may have sourced them cheaper, but at the time I was travelling up and down the country for work, so just let my specialist order them in from BMW as I didn't have the time.
Essentially would have been the same parts minus the BMW logo.So what do people think about this car then?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Toying with the idea given that these were out round the time I started driving.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Toying with the idea given that these were out round the time I started driving.
KungFuPanda said:
So what do people think about this car then?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Toying with the idea given that these were out round the time I started driving.
Go for it. Have it inspected and take the plunge. M5 are great. Yes, running one is not a cheap affair but it is worth it. Once you floor it, you forget about the hole they just left in your bank account! https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Toying with the idea given that these were out round the time I started driving.
KungFuPanda said:
So what do people think about this car then?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Toying with the idea given that these were out round the time I started driving.
Looks like it's worth an inspection. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Toying with the idea given that these were out round the time I started driving.
You need to check for rust everywhere, especially the leading edge of the bonnet, the boot lid near the handle and number plate lights, inside the lips of the rear wheel arches, jacking points under the plastic covers, the underside at the rear as much as you can with the rear sub-frame and fuel tank in place, the supports for the front under tray near where the manifold support is, the front sub-frame, the bottoms and interior seams of the doors ....
Also check the obvious like fluid leaks (PAS lines are a common problem), noise from the VANOS, that the main cooling fan clutch is working (free when cold, not free when hot), puffs of smoke on startup as the valve stem seals go, all the electrics work and there are no dead pixels on the cluster, steering should be heavier in Sport mode than regular mode, etc. etc. ....
Despite me generally preferring smaller dimensions in cars, i think i'd still have one of these over an E46 M3. Two completely different cars, i know, but this is definitely something i'd be keen to own one day. The running costs would be the scary bit. So will the purchase price by the time i can afford one. I can see them sky-rocketing without a doubt!
A subjectively great looking saloon, even today, with a manual gearbox, a N/A V8 and a lack of silly and complex electrics and gizmos. Lovely stuff.
A subjectively great looking saloon, even today, with a manual gearbox, a N/A V8 and a lack of silly and complex electrics and gizmos. Lovely stuff.
Edited by culpz on Monday 23 October 09:20
RichardM5 said:
My E39 is the best all round car I've ever had, which is why I've had it for over 9 years.
My summary is that it's not exceptional at any one thing, but it's very very good at almost everything.
Driving it always brings a smile to my face, it's just so complete and fuss free. It is still fast, by modern standards for 'regular' cars, but there are many more faster top of the range cars now. My M6 GC will obliterate it and is for the most part a much easier car to drive, but for a car to really 'drive' the M5 is a much more involving experience..
^ this. The e39 m5 is one of my favourite cars and still by a huge margin my favourite saloon.My summary is that it's not exceptional at any one thing, but it's very very good at almost everything.
Driving it always brings a smile to my face, it's just so complete and fuss free. It is still fast, by modern standards for 'regular' cars, but there are many more faster top of the range cars now. My M6 GC will obliterate it and is for the most part a much easier car to drive, but for a car to really 'drive' the M5 is a much more involving experience..
RichardM5 said:
Looks like it's worth an inspection.
You need to check for rust everywhere, especially the leading edge of the bonnet, the boot lid near the handle and number plate lights, inside the lips of the rear wheel arches, jacking points under the plastic covers, the underside at the rear as much as you can with the rear sub-frame and fuel tank in place, the supports for the front under tray near where the manifold support is, the front sub-frame, the bottoms and interior seams of the doors ....
Also check the obvious like fluid leaks (PAS lines are a common problem), noise from the VANOS, that the main cooling fan clutch is working (free when cold, not free when hot), puffs of smoke on startup as the valve stem seals go, all the electrics work and there are no dead pixels on the cluster, steering should be heavier in Sport mode than regular mode, etc. etc. ....
Worth noting that isn't automatically indicative of a problem. Mine were always noisy, with diesel-like clatter. You need to check for rust everywhere, especially the leading edge of the bonnet, the boot lid near the handle and number plate lights, inside the lips of the rear wheel arches, jacking points under the plastic covers, the underside at the rear as much as you can with the rear sub-frame and fuel tank in place, the supports for the front under tray near where the manifold support is, the front sub-frame, the bottoms and interior seams of the doors ....
Also check the obvious like fluid leaks (PAS lines are a common problem), noise from the VANOS, that the main cooling fan clutch is working (free when cold, not free when hot), puffs of smoke on startup as the valve stem seals go, all the electrics work and there are no dead pixels on the cluster, steering should be heavier in Sport mode than regular mode, etc. etc. ....
There are anti-rattle kits that some folk fit but that's a lot of money for a superficial problem.
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