ULEZ charge in 2021
Discussion
C70R said:
kiethton said:
C70R said:
I know there have been dozens of threads on this, but if you work in the highlighted central area here ( https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/congestion-charge...) and commute by car, you deserve to be financially disincentivised.
London is already much too congested and polluted, without the selfishness of individuals driving their cars into the heart of it at peak hours. The public transport infrastructure gives ample opportunity to make journeys inside that zone 24/7, and I can't see any good argument for driving in.
Far from it - Tell me how to get from Lee Green - Sydenham (my GF's old commute) without a car.....or even the prior one - Lee - Ramsden (Orpington) on public transport that is in any way time effective or allows her to carry a colleague and equipment?London is already much too congested and polluted, without the selfishness of individuals driving their cars into the heart of it at peak hours. The public transport infrastructure gives ample opportunity to make journeys inside that zone 24/7, and I can't see any good argument for driving in.
Edited by C70R on Monday 23 October 12:09
Not sure if you're serious or not.
- Lee (only "Lee Green" if you're embarrassed to live next to Catford ) to Sydenham appears to be half an hour on a bus (the 202)
- Lee to Ramsden appears to be ~45min, by bus/train/bus
- I assume your OH (and her colleague) is capable of the above, and the "equipment" isn't a cement-mixer
- None of these places are in the current T-Zone (did you look at my link?)
- The proposed (i.e. unconfirmed) ULEZ rollout may not include any of those areas, or may offer exemption for living inside, and is likely to limit only to "Euro 4/5" compliance for cars - hardly a major hurdle if she was hell-bent on driving
Equipment is: Class books, folders & files, messy play activities and products etc.
captainaverage said:
C70R said:
Erm...
Not sure if you're serious or not.
how much do you use public transport? Not sure if you're serious or not.
- Lee (only "Lee Green" if you're embarrassed to live next to Catford ) to Sydenham appears to be half an hour on a bus (the 202)
- Lee to Ramsden appears to be ~45min, by bus/train/bus
- I assume your OH (and her colleague) is capable of the above, and the "equipment" isn't a cement-mixer
- None of these places are in the current T-Zone (did you look at my link?)
- The proposed (i.e. unconfirmed) ULEZ rollout may not include any of those areas, or may offer exemption for living inside, and is likely to limit only to "Euro 4/5" compliance for cars - hardly a major hurdle if she was hell-bent on driving
Why do you ask?
Rovinghawk said:
C70R said:
What is this spurious "equipment" you're talking about?
In my case a theodolite, tripod, survey staff, coupla cans of spraypaint, sledgehammer & a few steel pins plus a laptop & a packed lunch.It's your employer you should take umbrage with, not TfL.
C70R said:
Rovinghawk said:
C70R said:
What is this spurious "equipment" you're talking about?
In my case a theodolite, tripod, survey staff, coupla cans of spraypaint, sledgehammer & a few steel pins plus a laptop & a packed lunch.It's your employer you should take umbrage with, not TfL.
kiethton said:
C70R said:
kiethton said:
C70R said:
I know there have been dozens of threads on this, but if you work in the highlighted central area here ( https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/congestion-charge...) and commute by car, you deserve to be financially disincentivised.
London is already much too congested and polluted, without the selfishness of individuals driving their cars into the heart of it at peak hours. The public transport infrastructure gives ample opportunity to make journeys inside that zone 24/7, and I can't see any good argument for driving in.
Far from it - Tell me how to get from Lee Green - Sydenham (my GF's old commute) without a car.....or even the prior one - Lee - Ramsden (Orpington) on public transport that is in any way time effective or allows her to carry a colleague and equipment?London is already much too congested and polluted, without the selfishness of individuals driving their cars into the heart of it at peak hours. The public transport infrastructure gives ample opportunity to make journeys inside that zone 24/7, and I can't see any good argument for driving in.
Edited by C70R on Monday 23 October 12:09
Not sure if you're serious or not.
- Lee (only "Lee Green" if you're embarrassed to live next to Catford ) to Sydenham appears to be half an hour on a bus (the 202)
- Lee to Ramsden appears to be ~45min, by bus/train/bus
- I assume your OH (and her colleague) is capable of the above, and the "equipment" isn't a cement-mixer
- None of these places are in the current T-Zone (did you look at my link?)
- The proposed (i.e. unconfirmed) ULEZ rollout may not include any of those areas, or may offer exemption for living inside, and is likely to limit only to "Euro 4/5" compliance for cars - hardly a major hurdle if she was hell-bent on driving
Equipment is: Class books, folders & files, messy play activities and products etc.
I say "10min" because Waze is currently predicting 19min by car to cover the same Lee-Sydenham journey I checked on CityMapper. Think there might be a bit of creative licence going on here...
What you're effectively saying is that your OH carries enough to work which could fit into a large rucksack (as many others would typically carry), and doesn't like taking the bus because of the smelly locals. The latter is almost a viable reason to drive, if you felt strongly enough, in spite of sounding a bit snobby about the area you chose to live in.
But crucially, it doesn't give you licence to whine when alternatives are readily available (and doubtless cheaper) - particularly when your OH, like many others, is contributing to the current issue of road congestion in London.
TheAngryDog said:
C70R said:
Rovinghawk said:
C70R said:
What is this spurious "equipment" you're talking about?
In my case a theodolite, tripod, survey staff, coupla cans of spraypaint, sledgehammer & a few steel pins plus a laptop & a packed lunch.It's your employer you should take umbrage with, not TfL.
C70R said:
kiethton said:
C70R said:
kiethton said:
C70R said:
I know there have been dozens of threads on this, but if you work in the highlighted central area here ( https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/congestion-charge...) and commute by car, you deserve to be financially disincentivised.
London is already much too congested and polluted, without the selfishness of individuals driving their cars into the heart of it at peak hours. The public transport infrastructure gives ample opportunity to make journeys inside that zone 24/7, and I can't see any good argument for driving in.
Far from it - Tell me how to get from Lee Green - Sydenham (my GF's old commute) without a car.....or even the prior one - Lee - Ramsden (Orpington) on public transport that is in any way time effective or allows her to carry a colleague and equipment?London is already much too congested and polluted, without the selfishness of individuals driving their cars into the heart of it at peak hours. The public transport infrastructure gives ample opportunity to make journeys inside that zone 24/7, and I can't see any good argument for driving in.
Edited by C70R on Monday 23 October 12:09
Not sure if you're serious or not.
- Lee (only "Lee Green" if you're embarrassed to live next to Catford ) to Sydenham appears to be half an hour on a bus (the 202)
- Lee to Ramsden appears to be ~45min, by bus/train/bus
- I assume your OH (and her colleague) is capable of the above, and the "equipment" isn't a cement-mixer
- None of these places are in the current T-Zone (did you look at my link?)
- The proposed (i.e. unconfirmed) ULEZ rollout may not include any of those areas, or may offer exemption for living inside, and is likely to limit only to "Euro 4/5" compliance for cars - hardly a major hurdle if she was hell-bent on driving
Equipment is: Class books, folders & files, messy play activities and products etc.
I say "10min" because Waze is currently predicting 19min by car to cover the same Lee-Sydenham journey I checked on CityMapper. Think there might be a bit of creative licence going on here...
What you're effectively saying is that your OH carries enough to work which could fit into a large rucksack (as many others would typically carry), and doesn't like taking the bus because of the smelly locals. The latter is almost a viable reason to drive, if you felt strongly enough, in spite of sounding a bit snobby about the area you chose to live in.
But crucially, it doesn't give you licence to whine when alternatives are readily available (and doubtless cheaper) - particularly when you OH, like many others, is contributing to the current issue of road congestion in London.
Her parents house was a 5 minute walk to where she is able to take the bus, her work a 10 minute walk (away from bus routes) in Sydenham - it doesn't work.
Yes zones 1&2 do likely work on public transport, outside doesn't.
What about other activities - doing the weekly food shop?, no way of carrying enough food to where we currently live (12 min walk to a bus stop) - try carrying enough food for the week, a 15 pack of bog roll and a crate or 2 of beer home. Its not possible.
kiethton said:
I'm adding the extra to allow for the walks at either end of the journey - she didn't live/work in the centre of each location/by the bus route and the times you quote don't include the wait for the bus, missing one = a 10 minute wait....
Her parents house was a 5 minute walk to where she is able to take the bus, her work a 10 minute walk (away from bus routes) in Sydenham - it doesn't work.
Yes zones 1&2 do likely work on public transport, outside doesn't.
What about other activities - doing the weekly food shop?, no way of carrying enough food to where we currently live (12 min walk to a bus stop) - try carrying enough food for the week, a 15 pack of bog roll and a crate or 2 of beer home. Its not possible.
I don't understand why you are pursuing this argument when the journey your OH makes is totally outside the zone and thus not affected by either the proposals or C70R's post.Her parents house was a 5 minute walk to where she is able to take the bus, her work a 10 minute walk (away from bus routes) in Sydenham - it doesn't work.
Yes zones 1&2 do likely work on public transport, outside doesn't.
What about other activities - doing the weekly food shop?, no way of carrying enough food to where we currently live (12 min walk to a bus stop) - try carrying enough food for the week, a 15 pack of bog roll and a crate or 2 of beer home. Its not possible.
kiethton said:
C70R said:
kiethton said:
C70R said:
kiethton said:
C70R said:
I know there have been dozens of threads on this, but if you work in the highlighted central area here ( https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/congestion-charge...) and commute by car, you deserve to be financially disincentivised.
London is already much too congested and polluted, without the selfishness of individuals driving their cars into the heart of it at peak hours. The public transport infrastructure gives ample opportunity to make journeys inside that zone 24/7, and I can't see any good argument for driving in.
Far from it - Tell me how to get from Lee Green - Sydenham (my GF's old commute) without a car.....or even the prior one - Lee - Ramsden (Orpington) on public transport that is in any way time effective or allows her to carry a colleague and equipment?London is already much too congested and polluted, without the selfishness of individuals driving their cars into the heart of it at peak hours. The public transport infrastructure gives ample opportunity to make journeys inside that zone 24/7, and I can't see any good argument for driving in.
Edited by C70R on Monday 23 October 12:09
Not sure if you're serious or not.
- Lee (only "Lee Green" if you're embarrassed to live next to Catford ) to Sydenham appears to be half an hour on a bus (the 202)
- Lee to Ramsden appears to be ~45min, by bus/train/bus
- I assume your OH (and her colleague) is capable of the above, and the "equipment" isn't a cement-mixer
- None of these places are in the current T-Zone (did you look at my link?)
- The proposed (i.e. unconfirmed) ULEZ rollout may not include any of those areas, or may offer exemption for living inside, and is likely to limit only to "Euro 4/5" compliance for cars - hardly a major hurdle if she was hell-bent on driving
Equipment is: Class books, folders & files, messy play activities and products etc.
I say "10min" because Waze is currently predicting 19min by car to cover the same Lee-Sydenham journey I checked on CityMapper. Think there might be a bit of creative licence going on here...
What you're effectively saying is that your OH carries enough to work which could fit into a large rucksack (as many others would typically carry), and doesn't like taking the bus because of the smelly locals. The latter is almost a viable reason to drive, if you felt strongly enough, in spite of sounding a bit snobby about the area you chose to live in.
But crucially, it doesn't give you licence to whine when alternatives are readily available (and doubtless cheaper) - particularly when you OH, like many others, is contributing to the current issue of road congestion in London.
Her parents house was a 5 minute walk to where she is able to take the bus, her work a 10 minute walk (away from bus routes) in Sydenham - it doesn't work.
Yes zones 1&2 do likely work on public transport, outside doesn't.
What about other activities - doing the weekly food shop?, no way of carrying enough food to where we currently live (12 min walk to a bus stop) - try carrying enough food for the week, a 15 pack of bog roll and a crate or 2 of beer home. Its not possible.
Go by bus, heavens knows you may meet people with wider viewpoints - too cosy a comfort zone?
kiethton said:
C70R said:
kiethton said:
C70R said:
kiethton said:
C70R said:
I know there have been dozens of threads on this, but if you work in the highlighted central area here ( https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/congestion-charge...) and commute by car, you deserve to be financially disincentivised.
London is already much too congested and polluted, without the selfishness of individuals driving their cars into the heart of it at peak hours. The public transport infrastructure gives ample opportunity to make journeys inside that zone 24/7, and I can't see any good argument for driving in.
Far from it - Tell me how to get from Lee Green - Sydenham (my GF's old commute) without a car.....or even the prior one - Lee - Ramsden (Orpington) on public transport that is in any way time effective or allows her to carry a colleague and equipment?London is already much too congested and polluted, without the selfishness of individuals driving their cars into the heart of it at peak hours. The public transport infrastructure gives ample opportunity to make journeys inside that zone 24/7, and I can't see any good argument for driving in.
Edited by C70R on Monday 23 October 12:09
Not sure if you're serious or not.
- Lee (only "Lee Green" if you're embarrassed to live next to Catford ) to Sydenham appears to be half an hour on a bus (the 202)
- Lee to Ramsden appears to be ~45min, by bus/train/bus
- I assume your OH (and her colleague) is capable of the above, and the "equipment" isn't a cement-mixer
- None of these places are in the current T-Zone (did you look at my link?)
- The proposed (i.e. unconfirmed) ULEZ rollout may not include any of those areas, or may offer exemption for living inside, and is likely to limit only to "Euro 4/5" compliance for cars - hardly a major hurdle if she was hell-bent on driving
Equipment is: Class books, folders & files, messy play activities and products etc.
I say "10min" because Waze is currently predicting 19min by car to cover the same Lee-Sydenham journey I checked on CityMapper. Think there might be a bit of creative licence going on here...
What you're effectively saying is that your OH carries enough to work which could fit into a large rucksack (as many others would typically carry), and doesn't like taking the bus because of the smelly locals. The latter is almost a viable reason to drive, if you felt strongly enough, in spite of sounding a bit snobby about the area you chose to live in.
But crucially, it doesn't give you licence to whine when alternatives are readily available (and doubtless cheaper) - particularly when you OH, like many others, is contributing to the current issue of road congestion in London.
Her parents house was a 5 minute walk to where she is able to take the bus, her work a 10 minute walk (away from bus routes) in Sydenham - it doesn't work.
Yes zones 1&2 do likely work on public transport, outside doesn't.
What about other activities - doing the weekly food shop?, no way of carrying enough food to where we currently live (12 min walk to a bus stop) - try carrying enough food for the week, a 15 pack of bog roll and a crate or 2 of beer home. Its not possible.
Let me just shut down your spurious arguments for a moment:
- Shopping - Taking an Uber (other taxis are available) once a week is over a short journey is probably cheaper than a year's road tax on a post-2006 car
- Bulky items - Unless you absolutely must have that weekly supermarket visit experience, every single supermarket offers a delivery service, and Lee (not "Lee Green") is littered with local supermarkets - there's no need to buy in ridiculous bulk in person
- Cars - It's likely that the proposed area will only limit users to Euro 4+ compliant cars, rather than banning them completely - they aren't stopping you from driving
- Inside/outside Z1&2 - We've just proven that we could get your OH to work (even with the spurious extra "15min" walking) via public transport in around the average London commute time (~45min) against her "20min" drive (not including traffic etc.). If she doesn't want to take public transport because it's smelly/cramped, big cities are not the place for her.
kiethton said:
What about other activities - doing the weekly food shop?, no way of carrying enough food to where we currently live (12 min walk to a bus stop) - try carrying enough food for the week, a 15 pack of bog roll and a crate or 2 of beer home. Its not possible.
You ever heard of Uber ? Or any other preferred cab firm?Alternatives to private car transport in London exist.
It sounds a bit like if you didn't have a car you wouldn't leave the house (light hearted - not meant to be a dig)
NickCQ said:
kiethton said:
I'm adding the extra to allow for the walks at either end of the journey - she didn't live/work in the centre of each location/by the bus route and the times you quote don't include the wait for the bus, missing one = a 10 minute wait....
Her parents house was a 5 minute walk to where she is able to take the bus, her work a 10 minute walk (away from bus routes) in Sydenham - it doesn't work.
Yes zones 1&2 do likely work on public transport, outside doesn't.
What about other activities - doing the weekly food shop?, no way of carrying enough food to where we currently live (12 min walk to a bus stop) - try carrying enough food for the week, a 15 pack of bog roll and a crate or 2 of beer home. Its not possible.
I don't understand why you are pursuing this argument when the journey your OH makes is totally outside the zone and thus not affected by either the proposals or C70R's post.Her parents house was a 5 minute walk to where she is able to take the bus, her work a 10 minute walk (away from bus routes) in Sydenham - it doesn't work.
Yes zones 1&2 do likely work on public transport, outside doesn't.
What about other activities - doing the weekly food shop?, no way of carrying enough food to where we currently live (12 min walk to a bus stop) - try carrying enough food for the week, a 15 pack of bog roll and a crate or 2 of beer home. Its not possible.
ETA - I live much more centrally than OP, and am therefore much more likely to be limited by any driving restrictions. However, I'm not a selfish sod and recognise that there is far too much traffic/pollution on the roads currently.
kiethton said:
NickCQ said:
I don't understand why you are pursuing this argument when the journey your OH makes is totally outside the zone and thus not affected by either the proposals or C70R's post.
Lee is inside the proposed 2021 extension.....Or move further out. Either works.
mgv8 said:
They are going to have to give Uber back there license or it's going to be very hard.
I see some people are saying it will not work for them, my question is do you have a choice?
You realise that taxis (including Private Hires) worked before Uber arrived.I see some people are saying it will not work for them, my question is do you have a choice?
The people who say it "won't work" for them are those who don't want it to work.
C70R said:
mgv8 said:
They are going to have to give Uber back there license or it's going to be very hard.
I see some people are saying it will not work for them, my question is do you have a choice?
You realise that taxis (including Private Hires) worked before Uber arrived.I see some people are saying it will not work for them, my question is do you have a choice?
The people who say it "won't work" for them are those who don't want it to work.
Even driving a pre-'06 or '15 car it'll still be cheaper to drive (assuming free parking) vs. a taxi...
Thing is although I'm now compliant (for the car only) after a change a huge number of people aren't, beyond that how long will it be before they tighten the restrictions further?
kiethton said:
C70R said:
mgv8 said:
They are going to have to give Uber back there license or it's going to be very hard.
I see some people are saying it will not work for them, my question is do you have a choice?
You realise that taxis (including Private Hires) worked before Uber arrived.I see some people are saying it will not work for them, my question is do you have a choice?
The people who say it "won't work" for them are those who don't want it to work.
Even driving a pre-'06 or '15 car it'll still be cheaper to drive (assuming free parking) vs. a taxi...
Thing is although I'm now compliant (for the car only) after a change a huge number of people aren't, beyond that how long will it be before they tighten the restrictions further?
As for the "huge number of people", TfL isn't proposing a reduction in public transport or cutting their legs off - they still have all of the same options that I've spent the past two pages highlighting.
As for the taxi thing, we were talking about your imaginary, mandatory, once-weekly shopping trip - where you couldn't possibly carry everything you needed on public transport. A tenner a week (assuming your imaginary schedule - remember, you can take the bus there!) is the same as just taxing a 2006 car, without even thinking about petrol, insurance etc.
You still haven't made a single compelling argument.
Edited by C70R on Monday 23 October 14:38
kiethton said:
But at what cost - you have to be at x location at x time
Even driving a pre-'06 or '15 car it'll still be cheaper to drive (assuming free parking) vs. a taxi...
Thing is although I'm now compliant (for the car only) after a change a huge number of people aren't, beyond that how long will it be before they tighten the restrictions further?
Oh, your wife can just increase her rate to cover the cost, too. Probably the easiest way. Doesn't solve jackst in terms of pollution but more money for TfL. Even driving a pre-'06 or '15 car it'll still be cheaper to drive (assuming free parking) vs. a taxi...
Thing is although I'm now compliant (for the car only) after a change a huge number of people aren't, beyond that how long will it be before they tighten the restrictions further?
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