ULEZ charge in 2021
Discussion
C70R said:
gavsdavs said:
C70R said:
You realise that taxis (including Private Hires) worked before Uber arrived.
The people who say it "won't work" for them are those who don't want it to work.
I want an effective deterrent to reduce unneccessary journeys, but there's a flip side - if i want to take my non-compliant car out (i.e. head straight out of the enlarged charging zone at 6am on a sunday) - should I have to pay £10 to start my car ?The people who say it "won't work" for them are those who don't want it to work.
Monday to friday 7am-7pm I totally get. Weekends less so. I also think enlarging the charging zone to the north and south circulars has it's own set of problems.
London is a densely populated city. By choosing to live in a densely populated city, you make the decision that you're willing to share your space with lots of other people. Part of this concession is that you might have to do something vaguely selfless, for the benefit of everyone else.
I guess - if they follow the model used for the CCZ and apply it to the enlarged t-zone (i.e. between the north and south circulars), i'll get a 90% discount for being resident in the area, right ?
So I pay a pound to run my car on a sunday ? I guess that's fair
Edited by gavsdavs on Monday 23 October 16:41
Edited by gavsdavs on Monday 23 October 16:41
C70R said:
kiethton said:
shost said:
So you are telling me that despite having no choice to drive directly into central london you also choose to do this in a car at least 10 years old?
What about drive park and take tube?
Motorbike that's 14 years old.....also planned to be caught up in this next wave of bWhat about drive park and take tube?
ks
You're really trying hard to look for the problems here.
The motorbike legislation will limit you to Euro 3 compliant bikes only - so basically any bike built in the last 12 years. Such hardship. How will you ever cope?
To replace my bike with a similar post '07 bike is ~£3k (mine cost £1k), given the theft issues I can only get third party only insurance and motorbike theft is out of control. We'd be buying bikes to give the chav's a better bike to steal!
Half of the bikes in the bike bay outside would not meet the restrictions, it's not like we pollute a great deal either..
Living in SE London, I usually use the Blackwall Tunnel if I ever need to cross over to the other side, but given that its within the extension, I either have the choice of paying the £10 to cross there, where it's generally less congested, or save ~£8 but sit in traffic for the Dartford Crossing/M25. 
gavsdavs said:
bgunn said:
Maybe your idealistic view with your perfect route fails to take account of the fact that even anecdotally amongst my peer group, it’s quite obvious that London’s transport network is *significantly* busier than it was years ago. I’ve been in London 17 years and there’s been no meaningful improvement in the time it takes to get across the city *using public transport*
17 years ago the jubilee line stopped at Charing Cross- if you wanted to go east of tower gateway you were going out via fenchurch street or over the DLR. It is now one of the major cross london arteries.Ditto the "east london line extension" - this has hugely opened up southeast london to north east london. (I live at canada water and it's made a massive difference to how busy that is)
Maybe we shouln't mention cross rail - the biggest piece of civil engineering in europe, either.
London is a big, busy city - it doesn't pretend to be anything else. If you don't want that, you're only left with 98% of the rest of the UK to choose from...
kiethton said:
C70R said:
kiethton said:
shost said:
So you are telling me that despite having no choice to drive directly into central london you also choose to do this in a car at least 10 years old?
What about drive park and take tube?
Motorbike that's 14 years old.....also planned to be caught up in this next wave of bWhat about drive park and take tube?
ksYou're really trying hard to look for the problems here.
The motorbike legislation will limit you to Euro 3 compliant bikes only - so basically any bike built in the last 12 years. Such hardship. How will you ever cope?
To replace my bike with a similar post '07 bike is ~£3k (mine cost £1k), given the theft issues I can only get third party only insurance and motorbike theft is out of control. We'd be buying bikes to give the chav's a better bike to steal!
Half of the bikes in the bike bay outside would not meet the restrictions, it's not like we pollute a great deal either..
You really don't get this idea of give-and-take, do you? You take a reasonable standard of living from London, so give something back to the 8m people that you share it with.
NomduJour said:
Private cars are not the problem, neither in terms of congestion nor pollution.
Private cars are an easy target, and a popular one for the sort of halfwits who might vote for Khan.
That's why the ULEZ applies to all vehicles, not just private cars.Private cars are an easy target, and a popular one for the sort of halfwits who might vote for Khan.
Speaking of halfwits...
C70R said:
gavsdavs said:
C70R said:
You realise that taxis (including Private Hires) worked before Uber arrived.
The people who say it "won't work" for them are those who don't want it to work.
I want an effective deterrent to reduce unneccessary journeys, but there's a flip side - if i want to take my non-compliant car out (i.e. head straight out of the enlarged charging zone at 6am on a sunday) - should I have to pay £10 to start my car ?The people who say it "won't work" for them are those who don't want it to work.
Monday to friday 7am-7pm I totally get. Weekends less so. I also think enlarging the charging zone to the north and south circulars has it's own set of problems.
London is a densely populated city. By choosing to live in a densely populated city, you make the decision that you're willing to share your space with lots of other people. Part of this concession is that you might have to do something vaguely selfless, for the benefit of everyone else.
Personally it makes no difference to me but it’s plainly obvious that dirty cars are soon to be off the road completely.
crankedup said:
C70R said:
gavsdavs said:
C70R said:
You realise that taxis (including Private Hires) worked before Uber arrived.
The people who say it "won't work" for them are those who don't want it to work.
I want an effective deterrent to reduce unneccessary journeys, but there's a flip side - if i want to take my non-compliant car out (i.e. head straight out of the enlarged charging zone at 6am on a sunday) - should I have to pay £10 to start my car ?The people who say it "won't work" for them are those who don't want it to work.
Monday to friday 7am-7pm I totally get. Weekends less so. I also think enlarging the charging zone to the north and south circulars has it's own set of problems.
London is a densely populated city. By choosing to live in a densely populated city, you make the decision that you're willing to share your space with lots of other people. Part of this concession is that you might have to do something vaguely selfless, for the benefit of everyone else.
Personally it makes no difference to me but it’s plainly obvious that dirty cars are soon to be off the road completely.
On the basis that we can't build any more London roads...
Should we prioritise the minority (a third as many private cars as people in London) to punish the majority?
Should we just let more and more private vehicles use the road until it's constant gridlock?
Should we just let more and more older vehicles use the road until the air quality is worse than third-world countries?
C70R said:
That's why the ULEZ applies to all vehicles, not just private cars.
Speaking of halfwits...
Firstly, T-charge isn’t the ULEZ, and secondly, if you want results, target the actual problem. Private cars are not the problem. Speaking of halfwits...
We’re told Oxford Street is the most polluted road in Europe. Guess what - there are no private cars on it, only buses and cabs (you know, those two things which are entirely within TfL’s remit and control).
Political point-scoring, nothing more.
C70R said:
Should we just let more and more private vehicles use the road until it's constant gridlock?
Should we just let more and more older vehicles use the road until the air quality is worse than third-world countries?
Again, private cars are not the issue - their use is falling. Older cars are not the issue either. How many people do you know who commute via private car into the congestion charge zone? Should we just let more and more older vehicles use the road until the air quality is worse than third-world countries?
Look at what type of vehicles are clogging the roads at peak times, and why.
Congestion = pollution:
http://inrix.com/press-releases/london-traffic/
“Key Findings in the Report show:
Traffic congestion in London has risen noticeably since 2012, with journey times in Central London increasing by 12% annually.
Car traffic, including taxis and private hire vehicles (PHVs), is decreasing in Central London and the Congestion Charge Zone; meaning these vehicles are not causing the rise in congestion.
Travel demand on London’s roads is flat or decreasing in Central London; increased use of public transport and other modes may explain why traffic volumes haven’t risen.
Substantial planned roadworks in London, having increased by 362% since 2012, and an overall 7.7% rise of light goods vehicles (LGVs) are major causes of congestion".
Car traffic is decreasing, even taking into account the massive increase in private hire vehicles (about 100,000 of them).
http://inrix.com/press-releases/london-traffic/
“Key Findings in the Report show:
Traffic congestion in London has risen noticeably since 2012, with journey times in Central London increasing by 12% annually.
Car traffic, including taxis and private hire vehicles (PHVs), is decreasing in Central London and the Congestion Charge Zone; meaning these vehicles are not causing the rise in congestion.
Travel demand on London’s roads is flat or decreasing in Central London; increased use of public transport and other modes may explain why traffic volumes haven’t risen.
Substantial planned roadworks in London, having increased by 362% since 2012, and an overall 7.7% rise of light goods vehicles (LGVs) are major causes of congestion".
Car traffic is decreasing, even taking into account the massive increase in private hire vehicles (about 100,000 of them).
NomduJour said:
C70R said:
That's why the ULEZ applies to all vehicles, not just private cars.
Speaking of halfwits...
Firstly, T-charge isn’t the ULEZ, and secondly, if you want results, target the actual problem. Private cars are not the problem. Speaking of halfwits...
We’re told Oxford Street is the most polluted road in Europe. Guess what - there are no private cars on it, only buses and cabs (you know, those two things which are entirely within TfL’s remit and control).
Political point-scoring, nothing more.
NomduJour said:
C70R said:
Should we just let more and more private vehicles use the road until it's constant gridlock?
Should we just let more and more older vehicles use the road until the air quality is worse than third-world countries?
Again, private cars are not the issue - their use is falling. Older cars are not the issue either. How many people do you know who commute via private car into the congestion charge zone? Should we just let more and more older vehicles use the road until the air quality is worse than third-world countries?
Look at what type of vehicles are clogging the roads at peak times, and why.
Ergo, with all cars being equal, private cars are still producing the majority of pollution per person that they transport. And that's completely ignoring what a complete waste of road-space they are.
That is why they are getting targeted.
vz-r_dave said:
They ban UBER for being a danger to the public yet allow the disgusting black cabs to continue their 26% NOx (of the total contributers in London) into the London atmosphere. Charge joe public so they can replace the fleet and continue to charge the Londoner rediculous fee's for their taxi journey's..... I love London but seriously hate how fking backwards TFL and our Mayor is on this subject.
Uber is not banned as they are appealing and once they abide by the terms and conditions that apply to all other private hire firms, they will be free to ply their trade.king backwards TFL and our Mayor is on this subject. Black cabs will all have to switch to electric or zero emissions in the coming years. (Could be as early as 2018 but not entirely sure and the oldest cab allowed will be 15 years so as each year goes by, the ratio of electric cabs will increase with the last phased out by 2032)
TfL set the fees for black cabs not the cabbies themselves.
Edited by valiant on Monday 23 October 17:53
Diesel-powered refrigeration on delivery vehicles - entirely unregulated:
http://dearman.co.uk/food-logistics-research-trans...
“[I]f all transport refrigeration units in London could be made zero emission, then it would save the same amount of particulate matter as taking 327,510 diesel cars off the city’s streets“
http://dearman.co.uk/food-logistics-research-trans...
“[I]f all transport refrigeration units in London could be made zero emission, then it would save the same amount of particulate matter as taking 327,510 diesel cars off the city’s streets“
Wuzzle said:
swisstoni said:
Just part of the Mayor's ambitious I Have To Be Seen To At Least Be Doing Something campaign.
Eh?The ULez was Boris's idea.
C70R said:
Private cars are being targeted because they are an incredibly inefficient means of transporting one person (the most likely scenario of a London car commuter).
Ergo, with all cars being equal, private cars are still producing the majority of pollution per person that they transport. And that's completely ignoring what a complete waste of road-space they are.
That is why they are getting targeted.
C70, I think I found the right site for you:Ergo, with all cars being equal, private cars are still producing the majority of pollution per person that they transport. And that's completely ignoring what a complete waste of road-space they are.
That is why they are getting targeted.
https://www.greenpeace.org.uk/what-we-do/
I thought this was pistonheads.
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