RE: Goodbye STI - Subaru calls time on the WRX

[StradoZ]

"as cars like Volkswagen's Golf R demonstrate that the compromises in comfort and refinement demanded by these rally cars for the road are no longer necessary to achieve their levels of speed and traction."

That is just not true, close, maybe but I'm running both a 2017 Golf R and 2004 Mitsubishi Evo 8 MR at the moment and my Golf R is a million miles away from the capability of my 13 year old Evo 8 MR, sure it's more comfortable, economical and cheaper to run but it's nowhere near as fast, not as grippy, nowhere near as involving and the AWD system is still way behind.

It does depend which variant and model you're comparing from the past but I don't think that blanket statement is true.

For those who haven't experienced these cars, journalists pushing factually incorrect statements just serves to bolster the idea that these euro-boxes are 'faster' and render Evos and Imprezas pointless for the uneducated.

PK0001 said:

But for now I am enjoying a car that goes, grips, stops, handles like no other car I have driven before. I have yet to find its limit and I don't think I will on the public roads.

Exactly.

Edited by StradoZ on Thursday 2nd November 11:14

Edited by StradoZ on Thursday 2nd November 11:18

[TroubledSoul]

StradoZ said:

"as cars like Volkswagen's Golf R demonstrate that the compromises in comfort and refinement demanded by these rally cars for the road are no longer necessary to achieve their levels of speed and traction."

That is just not true, close, maybe but I'm running both a 2017 Golf R and 2004 Mitsubishi Evo 8 MR at the moment and my Golf R is a million miles away from the capability of my 13 year old Evo 8 MR, sure it's more comfortable, economical and cheaper to run but it's nowhere near as fast, not as grippy, nowhere near as involving and the AWD system is still way behind.

It does depend which variant and model you're comparing from the past but I don't think that blanket statement is true.

For those who haven't experienced these cars, journalists pushing factually incorrect statements just serves to bolster the idea that these euro-boxes are 'faster' and render Evos and Imprezas pointless for the uneducated.

PK0001 said:

But for now I am enjoying a car that goes, grips, stops, handles like no other car I have driven before. I have yet to find its limit and I don't think I will on the public roads.

Exactly.

Edited by StradoZ on Thursday 2nd November 11:14

Edited by StradoZ on Thursday 2nd November 11:18

Absolutely. VW/Ford and the motoring press have pretty much convinced the man on the street they ARE better in every way and unfortunately that's what translates into sales.

[aaron_2000]

MuscleSaloon said:

Strong money maybe .. but if my numbers came up its on the list.

Only £11k more than the final edition UK car .. epic spec .. plus an engine that's not made of chocolate is always advantageous.

And that'll be much much lighter than the Corolla WRX STI.

[daemon]

TroubledSoul said:

Absolutely. VW/Ford and the motoring press have pretty much convinced the man on the street they ARE better in every way and unfortunately that's what translates into sales.

Well in fairness you can get all of the performance of an STI with none of the compromises for the same money or less with a Ford, VW or BMW these days.

[3yardy3]

culpz said:

It's a real shame, as it is with Mitsubishi killing off the EVO. Well, for now, anyway. Manufacturers are really killing off the good stuff right now, in favour of hybrids, SUV's and just generic, ordinary vehicles. That's the kind of thing that sells now, though. I'm gutted that VW has recently axed the Scirocco, too.

Unfortunately the Pistonheads community does not help this in anyway... I joined Pistonheads because like many i am a massive petrolhead and enjoy all things with an engine and wheels whether that's a family wagon with space for 16 people or a track spec 2 seater, you only have to read the comments section on the Ford Focus rally drift handbrake to realise a lot of people seem to huff and slag Ford off for doing something fun!!!

If stuff like this continues manufactures will read this or hear reports and just stick to boring boring cars and ideas, ruining it for everybody.

[rossub]

Ares said:

daemon said:

culpz said:

Yipper said:

As others have said, the competition, like Golf R or Audi S3, has caught up and gone past Subaru. Few decent lease deals. And the badge snobbery means most people with 30k to spend want German.

Yupp. However, even in non-performance terms, i reckon Subaru will still struggle. How many cooking models and variants do you see on the road? I just worry for them as a company.

Even if they're going to do what Mitsubishi appear to be doing, which is mainly hybrid SUV's, i'm sure their little niche will be overridden by ze Germans soon after.

There is no need to worry. They sell like hot cakes in AUS, JDM and the US, not so much in a German car obsessed market like ours.

So it'll just got back to the 1990s where if you wanted the hot model, you had to import it yourself, or buy it from an importer.

Way better value too . P1

Exactly. Bit of a non story here really if they're still being made for other world markets.

[aaron_2000]

If someone is a real STI enthusiast, odds are they'd be looking more towards the GC8 than this. For someone who likes Subaru and wnats to really enjoy driving one, they have so many better ones on offer to them than the current one.

[warch]

The STI is nowhere near as usable as a Focus RS or a Golf R, people want fuel economy and a reasonable tax bracket when they choose a car these days, even in this type of car. Plus both of these are slightly cheaper, and I'd have thought cheaper to service and repair.

Bear in mind that any car probably spends at least half it's time pootling along in traffic then 35-40mpg has it's appeal, regardless of how much better a car is on the limit. Economy is much less of an issue in Aus or Merica for obvious reasons.

[daemon]

rossub said:

Ares said:

daemon said:

culpz said:

Yipper said:

As others have said, the competition, like Golf R or Audi S3, has caught up and gone past Subaru. Few decent lease deals. And the badge snobbery means most people with 30k to spend want German.

Yupp. However, even in non-performance terms, i reckon Subaru will still struggle. How many cooking models and variants do you see on the road? I just worry for them as a company.

Even if they're going to do what Mitsubishi appear to be doing, which is mainly hybrid SUV's, i'm sure their little niche will be overridden by ze Germans soon after.

There is no need to worry. They sell like hot cakes in AUS, JDM and the US, not so much in a German car obsessed market like ours.

So it'll just got back to the 1990s where if you wanted the hot model, you had to import it yourself, or buy it from an importer.

Way better value too . P1

Exactly. Bit of a non story here really if they're still being made for other world markets.

And not the first time the UK importer has stopped importing STis.

[neil1jnr]

daemon said:

TroubledSoul said:

Absolutely. VW/Ford and the motoring press have pretty much convinced the man on the street they ARE better in every way and unfortunately that's what translates into sales.

Well in fairness you can get all of the performance of an STI with none of the compromises for the same money or less with a Ford, VW or BMW these days.

Performance in terms of numbers yes, but in terms of how the cars can perform absolutely not. As a poster mentioned above that has a Golf R and Evo VIII MR, they are like chalk and cheese, sound similar on paper but completely different in reality. From what I have read, at least the Focus RS has been compared with the likes of Mitsubishis Evo models which is a big compliment.

The article PH did a while back with the STI and S3 saloon clearly demonstrated that they are nothing alike. Yes the STI compromises in some departments, interior, fit and finish, but the same could be said for the S3, it compromises on fun in a big way.

[TartanPaint]

I love classic and new-age STis. I've got a Hawkeye Spec-D. I haven't ever wanted anything from the '08 hatch onwards. I've sat in them all at the dealer and not once been tempted, despite them practically giving them away.

[StradoZ]

neil1jnr said:

Performance in terms of numbers yes, but in terms of how the cars can perform absolutely not. As a poster mentioned above that has a Golf R and Evo VIII MR, they are like chalk and cheese, sound similar on paper but completely different in reality. From what I have read, at least the Focus RS has been compared with the likes of Mitsubishis Evo models which is a big compliment.

The article PH did a while back with the STI and S3 saloon clearly demonstrated that they are nothing alike. Yes the STI compromises in some departments, interior, fit and finish, but the same could be said for the S3, it compromises on fun in a big way.

People have short memories, the Focus RS is getting Evo comparisons because Ford have put a little more effort into their AWD system than the Haldex brigade (who brake wheels rather than intelligently distribute the power) but they're still not up to the SAYC of Mitsubishi which (service intervals aside) has yet to be matched never mind improved on in terms of capability.

Reading the reviews and marketing, you'd think the Golf R was a replacement for the best Jap rally cars from 15 years ago. Running both currently, I'd only agree if you move the goalposts and start to value comfort, economy, tax brackets and service intervals more highly than capability and performance.

[C7 JFW]

I'm very sad to see this headline, however I'm very pleased I bought my own STI a few weeks ago.

Would I choose any of the Golf R/A45AMG/FRS/S3 over an STI again? No.

The STI is fundamentally a sporty car built to cover ground fast. The fact that someone stuck an a/c pump and some seats in the back at some point so they could market it as a 'practical' car, is a good way to cover some costs.

[warch]

StradoZ said:

Reading the reviews and marketing, you'd think the Golf R was a replacement for the best Jap rally cars from 15 years ago.

This is part of the problem though. Mitisubishi and Subaru have no rallying presence anymore, indeed the WRC is a shadow of it's former self. Although both were fairly well removed from the actual WRC versions in terms of performance and handling they were based on the production car and recognisable as such.

[neil1jnr]

warch said:

StradoZ said:

Reading the reviews and marketing, you'd think the Golf R was a replacement for the best Jap rally cars from 15 years ago.

This is part of the problem though. Mitisubishi and Subaru have no rallying presence anymore, indeed the WRC is a shadow of it's former self. Although both were fairly well removed from the actual WRC versions in terms of performance and handling they were based on the production car and recognisable as such.

Don't quote me on this but if I remember correctly, I think in the 90's, and up to 2000/01, the Evo at least (not 100% sure on the Impreza), was competing in Group N, not WRC. As such, you could buy a Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VI RS (mechanical diff rather than AYC) which I believe is exactly what the Group N cars were based off of, so they really were rally cars for the public road in my eyes and performed very similarly to their Group N counter parts as well as looking the part! The Golf R doesn't resemble a rally car in the slightest, it's just a very competent, fast hatch back that is very good at what it does.

After the Evo VI I think Mitsibishi carried competed in WRC.

I realise VW no longer competes in WRC but they were dominating and they could have taken the opportunity to build a very special rally-esque Polo, unfortunately it never happened.

Edited by neil1jnr on Thursday 2nd November 14:51

[V88Dicky]

warch said:

The STI is nowhere near as usable as a Focus RS or a Golf R, people want fuel economy and a reasonable tax bracket when they choose a car these days, even in this type of car. Plus both of these are slightly cheaper, and I'd have thought cheaper to service and repair.

Bear in mind that any car probably spends at least half it's time pootling along in traffic then 35-40mpg has it's appeal, regardless of how much better a car is on the limit. Economy is much less of an issue in Aus or Merica for obvious reasons.

Ironically, since 01/04/2017 a brand new STI will be £140 pa whereas the Golf will be £535 due to its list price being over £40k

[Oliver-2optb]

This is what is elsewhere( AUS , US) the 2018 WRX STI , so how come there is now a £4k premium?

[daemon]

neil1jnr said:

Performance in terms of numbers yes, but in terms of how the cars can perform absolutely not. As a poster mentioned above that has a Golf R and Evo VIII MR, they are like chalk and cheese, sound similar on paper but completely different in reality. From what I have read, at least the Focus RS has been compared with the likes of Mitsubishis Evo models which is a big compliment.

Agreed RE: Golf R versus EVO VIII MR, however we're talking about Golf R versus 2017 STi?

neil1jnr said:

The article PH did a while back with the STI and S3 saloon clearly demonstrated that they are nothing alike. Yes the STI compromises in some departments, interior, fit and finish, but the same could be said for the S3, it compromises on fun in a big way.

The problem there is the S3 is what people want of a car these days, and the STi isnt. Also i would agree the S3 isnt necessarily "fun in a big way", however that doesnt mean all alternatives dont offer fun.

[daemon]

V88Dicky said:

warch said:

The STI is nowhere near as usable as a Focus RS or a Golf R, people want fuel economy and a reasonable tax bracket when they choose a car these days, even in this type of car. Plus both of these are slightly cheaper, and I'd have thought cheaper to service and repair.

Bear in mind that any car probably spends at least half it's time pootling along in traffic then 35-40mpg has it's appeal, regardless of how much better a car is on the limit. Economy is much less of an issue in Aus or Merica for obvious reasons.

Ironically, since 01/04/2017 a brand new STI will be £140 pa whereas the Golf will be £535 due to its list price being over £40k

Golf R list price is £32,710.

https://broadspeed.com/new_cars/Volkswagen/Golf/Ch...

[daemon]

3yardy3 said:

culpz said:

It's a real shame, as it is with Mitsubishi killing off the EVO. Well, for now, anyway. Manufacturers are really killing off the good stuff right now, in favour of hybrids, SUV's and just generic, ordinary vehicles. That's the kind of thing that sells now, though. I'm gutted that VW has recently axed the Scirocco, too.

Unfortunately the Pistonheads community does not help this in anyway... I joined Pistonheads because like many i am a massive petrolhead and enjoy all things with an engine and wheels whether that's a family wagon with space for 16 people or a track spec 2 seater, you only have to read the comments section on the Ford Focus rally drift handbrake to realise a lot of people seem to huff and slag Ford off for doing something fun!!!

If stuff like this continues manufactures will read this or hear reports and just stick to boring boring cars and ideas, ruining it for everybody.

Out of curiosity, whilst i take your point, you're running a 335i, not an STi?