RE: BMW M135i: PH Fleet

[Superlightdaa]

Limpet said:

Think I'm going to put the Quaife LSD on my M140i in the New Year. The standard suspension isn't actually that awful, IMO but the open diff gets on my nerves, particularly when its wet.

Have you looked into insurance, BMW warranty? Agree that the diff is poor, I've got the adaptive suspension and find sport setting is best.

[HumanDoing]

A wonderful vehicle. Can be had now for around £20k at 3 years e.g. less than people will spend PCPing something they've decided is sexier over a 3 year period. No brainer, no brainer.

[Limpet]

Superlightdaa said:

Have you looked into insurance, BMW warranty? Agree that the diff is poor, I've got the adaptive suspension and find sport setting is best.

I haven't checked insurance, although wouldn't expect it to make much of a difference premium-wise to the right insurer. Birds have a statement around warranty and the upshot is it's not affected unless the modification directly causes the failure. It's hard to see what could fail that could be reasonably be blamed on an LSD.

Sport is my preferred adaptive setting for most things as well, although I often flick back to Comfort around town as it deals with crap surfaces and sleeping policeman noticeably better.

[MustardCutter]

Superlightdaa said:

Limpet said:

Think I'm going to put the Quaife LSD on my M140i in the New Year. The standard suspension isn't actually that awful, IMO but the open diff gets on my nerves, particularly when its wet.

Have you looked into insurance, BMW warranty? Agree that the diff is poor, I've got the adaptive suspension and find sport setting is best.

If you have warranty concerns there's the option of getting the official clutch based BMW M-performance diff that won't affect your warranty. IIRC it's more expensive and will potentially require more maintenance than the Quaife. It's worth heading over to babybmw.net if you're looking into modifying one of these. Insurance will totally come down to who your insurance is with and how mod-friendly they are. When I checked with mine there would be no premium increase but IIRC they wouldn't cover the value of the diff should there be a write off.

[cerb4.5lee]

MustardCutter said:

Scottie - NW said:

MustardCutter said:

Scottie - NW said:

What type of LSD is fitted, viscous/helical etc?

Birds fit the Quaife ATB.

I know it's Quaife, the article says that, but that is the manufacturer as opposed to the type of LSD?

If you know it's a Quaife then you should know it's an automatic torque biasing (ATB) helical gear based diff like all Quaife diffs. Apologies for trying to help.

fido said:

cerb4.5lee said:

That's always baffled me too, my old 200sx couldn't even manage 200bhp as standard...yet it still came with a LSD from the factory.

Traction control helps to some extent - if it can brake individual wheels then you have an electronic locking diff - though it sounds like the M135 doesn't do this or cuts power when what you want is power to both wheels.

It does use the rear brakes to mimic an LSD, but it can be quite intrusive and unpredictable as the article eludes to. It's certainly a frustration I have with mine.

Edited by MustardCutter on Thursday 2nd November 13:52

That's what I don't like about traction control as well, because its either too sloppy or too intrusive, I prefer a LSD just on it's own and without the electronic aids, I suppose electronic aids are better than having nothing at all though.

[Sylvaforever]

Fairly amazing you have to shell out a four figure sum to make it drive and handle properly

And you haven't finished either.

I wonder if this is such a good advert for BMW as you obviously think it is....

[Scottie - NW]

s m said:

Scottie - NW said:

MustardCutter said:

Scottie - NW said:

What type of LSD is fitted, viscous/helical etc?

Birds fit the Quaife ATB.

I know it's Quaife, the article says that, but that is the manufacturer as opposed to the type of LSD?

It's a helical gear torque apportioning diff

Thanks, am trying to learn more about diffs as the viscous LSD I have is not great.

[Scottie - NW]

MustardCutter said:

Scottie - NW said:

MustardCutter said:

Scottie - NW said:

What type of LSD is fitted, viscous/helical etc?

Birds fit the Quaife ATB.

I know it's Quaife, the article says that, but that is the manufacturer as opposed to the type of LSD?

If you know it's a Quaife then you should know it's an automatic torque biasing (ATB) helical gear based diff like all Quaife diffs. Apologies for trying to help.

fido said:

cerb4.5lee said:

That's always baffled me too, my old 200sx couldn't even manage 200bhp as standard...yet it still came with a LSD from the factory.

Traction control helps to some extent - if it can brake individual wheels then you have an electronic locking diff - though it sounds like the M135 doesn't do this or cuts power when what you want is power to both wheels.

It does use the rear brakes to mimic an LSD, but it can be quite intrusive and unpredictable as the article eludes to. It's certainly a frustration I have with mine.

Edited by MustardCutter on Thursday 2nd November 13:52

Mustardcutter, was not trying to be rude sorry if it appeared that way, was trying to understand the type of LSD as opposed to the make as I am looking to upgrade one.

I have a similar problem to cerb4.5lee in that I have a s14a 200sx, which is a light rwd car, putting out 398bhp and 378 lbft and the viscous LSD is not good, so I am considering upgrading to the Helical one from the later S15 model, I am told helical is better than viscous?

A complication is the car only has 3 channel ABS, two on the front and the rear sensor is in the diff. I've fitted race logic traction control myself, use GTR wheels with wide semi slicks, have full alignment kits and so on, and the power goes down lots better, but I have been advised switching to the helical will also yield improvements.

I do also realise that 400bhp in a light rwd car will always mean some traction limitations but I am trying to minimise them as I've done a little hill climbing and sprinting, albeit a bit rubbish, but even 0.3s improvement would put me up a few places

Edited by Scottie - NW on Thursday 2nd November 15:23

[cerb4.5lee]

Scottie - NW said:

I have a similar problem to cerb4.5lee in that I have a s14a 200sx, which is a light rwd car, putting out 398bhp and 378 lbft and the viscous LSD is not good,

I bet that's great fun to drive running those numbers.

Even with the traction issues.

[anonymous-user]

I've had the Birds kit fitted on the 130i earlier this year and it is brilliant. You don't have to be anywhere near the limits to appreciate the benefits of an LSD and with the Bilsteins/tweaked ARB's, not to mention the AP's, it's a very, very good road car. I have no idea what to replace it with tbh.

[V8 TEJ]

Scottie - NW said:

Fairly amazing really that it came without a LSD as standard.

Even 20 years ago rwd cars with decent power came with them standard.

Not always, my W210 E55 (350 bhp / 390 lbs/ft) doesn't have one. There were many powerful cars that didn't have them.

[nickfrog]

HumanDoing said:

Can be had now for around £20k at 3 years e.g. less than people will spend PCPing something they've decided is sexier over a 3 year period. No brainer, no brainer.

Except that it's quite literally the opposite as you got your maths catastrophically wrong. If it yields £20k after a typical 3 years PCP deal it would have cost less than £10k amortised after a highly likely £2k/£2.5k equity. I am not even talking about the £35 monthly opportunity cost on "your" £20k or the new car warranty...etc...

They were available at £25k 3 years ago (I bought one then) so cash new was the answer from a pure value POV anyway, with PCP second and second hand the third best choice.

But you know all that already as it was patiently explained to you yesterday, which you have probably forgotten, or maybe you're trolling, for once ?

[skylarking808]

Having had a couple of older Beemers with a mechanical LSD I can believe there is a positive difference to the M135i.

It seems those who have had cars with this set up become coverts as it helps with everyday driving as well as controlling those hoonigan moments. The way they assist with pulling out of junctions or tug you around a corner is excellent.

I am not sure if big fat tyres or modern suspension set ups on modern vehicles diminishes the need for one though - ran my cars on standard Mtech suspension and 205 width tyres.

Birds have always had a decent reputation for improving suspension without ruining a car for road use.

[xjay1337]

Scottie - NW said:

Fairly amazing really that it came without a LSD as standard.

Even 20 years ago rwd cars with decent power came with them standard.

What type of LSD is fitted, viscous/helical etc?

It'll be an atb helical if Quaife I believe.

lsd is pointless for a road car. Many performance cars don't come with an lsd .
Costs as well. This is a cut price junior supercar.

I'd consider a m135i , but the zf auto suits the car better.

[anonymous-user]

cerb4.5lee said:

That's always baffled me too, my old 200sx couldn't even manage 200bhp as standard...yet it still came with a LSD from the factory.

Same with the Monaro.

[paisley buddy]

Superlightdaa said:

The whole kit is high up on my wish list for my LCI M135. Just wish BIRDS was closer to the NE England.

you only live in sunderland not a million miles away

[s m]

cerb4.5lee said:

R33FAL said:

Same as the C63... 450hp, no LSD. Amazing.

That's always baffled me too, my old 200sx couldn't even manage 200bhp as standard...yet it still came with a LSD from the factory.

Not only that...but a diff cooler as well!

[willttqs]

i have a 2016 with a bmw lsd and it is fun, has to be a manual as well, surely? otherwise buy a diesel

[anonymous-user]

Sylvaforever said:

Fairly amazing you have to shell out a four figure sum to make it drive and handle properly

And you haven't finished either.

I wonder if this is such a good advert for BMW as you obviously think it is....

What are the alternative options that cover;

• hatchback
• RWD
• anonymous
• 300HP+
• <25k

To be frank, factory suspension on anything is something that by around 40K is already getting a but tired. These things are built to a price and not to annoy the M cars. IME a few grand on quality suspension is well worth the investment.

[anonymous-user]

xjay1337 said:

It'll be an atb helical if Quaife I believe.

lsd is pointless for a road car. Many performance cars don't come with an lsd .
Costs as well. This is a cut price junior supercar.

I'd consider a m135i , but the zf auto suits the car better.

That's just total nonsense. After fitting an LSD to the 130 the difference is night and day, I cannot understand how anyone with a moderately powerful RWD car would ever want an open diff? It's weird how BMW choose to fit proper LSD's to the M cars, I guess they must disagree with you as well