RE: Porsche 911 GT2 RS: Driven
Discussion
Heated discussion this ... Porsche must love it - great marketing
I get why people are frustrated (Porsche will not sell me a GT2 either, having said that at 330k euros specced, I would not want one anyway - too much money). Would have liked a GT3 Touring but alas none available - so I moved on and bought something else.
911s are great cars, but at current market prices the new/latest models - to me anyway - are not really worth it. A 997.2 RS or a 996 RS on the other hand are very tempting and imo even at today’s prices much better value than the new cars (and should hold value much better if the market turns thanks to much lower numbers)
Am sure prices will come down again eventually - too many cars from too many manufacturers in a similar price bracket (mixing new and used a little here)
UK list prices are way lower than in most other countries, so for the moment it does seem like Porsche is giving away free money. But for people who buy cars for driving, there are plenty of used options on the back catalogue to buy - might just not be free motoring .... which nowadays I suspect is the main draw as many of the current GT buyers don’t seem to have had any interest in the 996, 997 variants which depreciated when they were new . I suspect Porsche remembers those times and therefore does not substantially increase prices.
I get why people are frustrated (Porsche will not sell me a GT2 either, having said that at 330k euros specced, I would not want one anyway - too much money). Would have liked a GT3 Touring but alas none available - so I moved on and bought something else.
911s are great cars, but at current market prices the new/latest models - to me anyway - are not really worth it. A 997.2 RS or a 996 RS on the other hand are very tempting and imo even at today’s prices much better value than the new cars (and should hold value much better if the market turns thanks to much lower numbers)
Am sure prices will come down again eventually - too many cars from too many manufacturers in a similar price bracket (mixing new and used a little here)
UK list prices are way lower than in most other countries, so for the moment it does seem like Porsche is giving away free money. But for people who buy cars for driving, there are plenty of used options on the back catalogue to buy - might just not be free motoring .... which nowadays I suspect is the main draw as many of the current GT buyers don’t seem to have had any interest in the 996, 997 variants which depreciated when they were new . I suspect Porsche remembers those times and therefore does not substantially increase prices.
MDL111 said:
many of the current GT buyers don’t seem to have had any interest in the 996, 997 variants which depreciated when they were new.
Whilst many prefer the older pre 991 911s imo they hold little interest from a usability perspective other than track use and a Sunday blast to the pub.Try sitting in heavy traffic driving a 997 GT3 or RS. Clutch is horrific.
This is where Porsche excels over the competition. Most Porsche GT cars can be used as dailies. And from a drivers perspective they still retain that dying magical combination of driver involvement in an increasingly diluted world.
Not so the competition e.g. McLaren. Forced induction, crap sounding engines, no 'manuel' gearbox option, detached overall driving experience. Overpriced, over stylesed, heavy depreciators and crap dealer backup.
av185 said:
MDL111 said:
many of the current GT buyers don’t seem to have had any interest in the 996, 997 variants which depreciated when they were new.
Whilst many prefer the older pre 991 911s imo they hold little interest from a usability perspective other than track use and a Sunday blast to the pub.Try sitting in heavy traffic driving a 997 GT3 or RS. Clutch is horrific.
This is where Porsche excels over the competition. Most Porsche GT cars can be used as dailies. And from a drivers perspective they still retain that dying magical combination of driver involvement in an increasingly diluted world.
Not so the competition e.g. McLaren. Forced induction, crap sounding engines, no 'manuel' gearbox option, detached overall driving experience. Overpriced, over stylesed, heavy depreciators and crap dealer backup.
Rawwr said:
unpc said:
I think there's certainly a case for publications not allowing intentionally limited production vehicles in their group tests. It's a mockery to allow the mighty GT3 to win every group test when you or I can't walk into an OPC and buy one. If publications all did this it might stop all this nonsense.
But that takes away from those of us who are interested in cars but not interested in ownership.cardigankid said:
What does a 911 Turbo S cost to build, again I'm guessing but I would say 25k max.
Including the amortised & depreciated costs? A huge amount more than £25k. You go design & build a new high output engine, 4WD, 4WS system and try to make money back across just a few thousand units.
For reference, a prototype standard car can cost >$250k due to economy of scale issues & amortised F&T across low volumes.
GroundEffect said:
cardigankid said:
What does a 911 Turbo S cost to build, again I'm guessing but I would say 25k max.
Including the amortised & depreciated costs? A huge amount more than £25k. You go design & build a new high output engine, 4WD, 4WS system and try to make money back across just a few thousand units.
For reference, a prototype standard car can cost >$250k due to economy of scale issues & amortised F&T across low volumes.
unpc said:
Rawwr said:
I collect trainers.
I never knew that was a thing before now. Every day is a school day...
t. Something called 'sneakerheads' where they queue outside for days in advance of a limited run of new trainers by whomever.Takes all sorts, my friend!
GroundEffect said:
cardigankid said:
What does a 911 Turbo S cost to build, again I'm guessing but I would say 25k max.
Including the amortised & depreciated costs? A huge amount more than £25k. You go design & build a new high output engine, 4WD, 4WS system and try to make money back across just a few thousand units.
For reference, a prototype standard car can cost >$250k due to economy of scale issues & amortised F&T across low volumes.
I read that of the 997 Turbo Coupe c 25,000 units were built. I suspect the number of cabs will not be that different - so call 40-50k turbos alone.
25k is probably a little in the low side all in, but factory, machinery, marketing etc is all spread across more than 200,000 units per year and stuff like engine, 4ws etc is used in many more cars and also across generations - it is not like the 992 will have a completely new engine and 4ws System designed from scratch
GroundEffect said:
Including the amortised & depreciated costs? A huge amount more than £25k.
You go design & build a new high output engine, 4WD, 4WS system and try to make money back across just a few thousand units.
For reference, a prototype standard car can cost >$250k due to economy of scale issues & amortised F&T across low volumes.
That engine, 4wd and 4ws will be rolled out gradually across so many models that eventually ALL of Porsches offerings will have those features.You go design & build a new high output engine, 4WD, 4WS system and try to make money back across just a few thousand units.
For reference, a prototype standard car can cost >$250k due to economy of scale issues & amortised F&T across low volumes.
av185 said:
GroundEffect said:
cardigankid said:
What does a 911 Turbo S cost to build, again I'm guessing but I would say 25k max.
Including the amortised & depreciated costs? A huge amount more than £25k. You go design & build a new high output engine, 4WD, 4WS system and try to make money back across just a few thousand units.
For reference, a prototype standard car can cost >$250k due to economy of scale issues & amortised F&T across low volumes.
Murcielago_Boy said:
GroundEffect said:
Including the amortised & depreciated costs? A huge amount more than £25k.
You go design & build a new high output engine, 4WD, 4WS system and try to make money back across just a few thousand units.
For reference, a prototype standard car can cost >$250k due to economy of scale issues & amortised F&T across low volumes.
That engine, 4wd and 4ws will be rolled out gradually across so many models that eventually ALL of Porsches offerings will have those features.You go design & build a new high output engine, 4WD, 4WS system and try to make money back across just a few thousand units.
For reference, a prototype standard car can cost >$250k due to economy of scale issues & amortised F&T across low volumes.
Anyway, I would so much prefer to have a BMW M4 Competition Pack with a TT 3 litre straight six than any form of Boxster or Cayman, or indeed 911 at roughly twice the price, because it is an honest car, looks great, is beautifully constructed and delivers the goods, and you can actually walk in and buy one. You can even walk in and buy a Club Sport at £89k or DTM Champions Edition (200 total production worldwide) for £115k. I will, but most won't, including many on here because they believe Porsche's hugely successful but bogus schtick about their magical superiority.
cardigankid said:
Anyway, I would so much prefer to have a BMW M4 Competition Pack with a TT 3 litre straight six than any form of Boxster or Cayman, or indeed 911 at roughly twice the price, because it is an honest car, looks great, is beautifully constructed and delivers the goods, and you can actually walk in and buy one.
I have owned every model of M3 since inception. Great cars up to and including the e90 and 92 last of the true analogue cars with a fantastic v8 and hydraulic steering....I like contemporary stuff too but unfortunately the latest turboed M3/4 is probably the worst of the lot as confirmed by quality journos testing and the car falls well short of the competition every time...the ultimate detached driving experience!No wonder sales are slow massive discounts can be had and depreciation is steep reflecting overpricing when new. The final nail in the coffin is that BMW is to halt production this August as the engine is not particulate compliant.
Anyway, back on thread, a nice GT2RS WPack at the OPC today:
PhantomPH said:
Yeah, it's a huge thing apparently. I only found out about that last year when Nike did the Back To The Future shoes and people lost their st. Something called 'sneakerheads' where they queue outside for days in advance of a limited run of new trainers by whomever.
Takes all sorts, my friend!
Money to be made in buying and selling sneakers trust me. I have software on my PC that auto adds the shoes to my cart and checks out. You can easily make profit flipping them. No different to the Porsches ironically!t. Something called 'sneakerheads' where they queue outside for days in advance of a limited run of new trainers by whomever.Takes all sorts, my friend!
J2daG1990 said:
Money to be made in buying and selling sneakers trust me. I have software on my PC that auto adds the shoes to my cart and checks out. You can easily make profit flipping them. No different to the Porsches ironically!
Yeah and people who use bots to speculate need to just die Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff