RE: Westfield Sport 250: Driven
Discussion
treeroy said:
MX5 is perfectly practical. Decent cabin space and boot will fit most things, well you wouldn't want to move house in it but if you're going somewhere with less than 5 passengers (likely, since you only have 2 seats) the luggage won't be an issue.
My MX5 had a wider boot than my current Fiesta, interestingly - my mate's pool cue would fit in the MX-5 but doesn't fit flat in my fiesta.
MR2 is obviously less practical, in fact I sold my MX5 to an MR2 owner who couldn't live with it on a daily basis due to the storage issues.
I had an MR2 as a bit of fun a couple of years ago, lasted 6 weeks before I got rid, did nothing for me at all.My MX5 had a wider boot than my current Fiesta, interestingly - my mate's pool cue would fit in the MX-5 but doesn't fit flat in my fiesta.
MR2 is obviously less practical, in fact I sold my MX5 to an MR2 owner who couldn't live with it on a daily basis due to the storage issues.
MX5 a much better bet IMHO
This is a good article, because its about time that someone pointed to the Emperor's lack of clothes. I have no axe to grind: I have had a Westfield since early 1990's and have got to understand their limitations. I've made significant suspension changes and its now pretty scalpel-like on track - don't know that I'd want a Ghurka-Knife tbh 
Point is: there's something wrong with the basic kinematics (suspension pick-up points locations, and wishbone geometry) - doing toe-in, camber won't fix that, you're just fiddling to get the wheels at least pointing in the right direction, not fixing the poor suspension design.
Caterham on the other hand have a sublime front-end suspension design; and the rear is so predictable & progressive. Comes from their Lotus DNA, I've no doubt. People 'in the know', know from driving them. You can see them at Goodwood approaching Woodcote at 130 and then with a flick, they 'back-them-in' like a MotoGP rider.... one after another. No other 7-type kit-car has the level of predictability and progression.
I'm just disappointed that the company can't or won't address the suspension's 'dead' feeling and lack of progressive grip. I suspect they just don't know what they are doing - otherwise why put out there a powerful car with a slow rack and steering wheel the size of dustbin lid? It seems to be they just want to sell something that 'looks like' its a good handling car.
Point is: there's something wrong with the basic kinematics (suspension pick-up points locations, and wishbone geometry) - doing toe-in, camber won't fix that, you're just fiddling to get the wheels at least pointing in the right direction, not fixing the poor suspension design.
Caterham on the other hand have a sublime front-end suspension design; and the rear is so predictable & progressive. Comes from their Lotus DNA, I've no doubt. People 'in the know', know from driving them. You can see them at Goodwood approaching Woodcote at 130 and then with a flick, they 'back-them-in' like a MotoGP rider.... one after another. No other 7-type kit-car has the level of predictability and progression.
I'm just disappointed that the company can't or won't address the suspension's 'dead' feeling and lack of progressive grip. I suspect they just don't know what they are doing - otherwise why put out there a powerful car with a slow rack and steering wheel the size of dustbin lid? It seems to be they just want to sell something that 'looks like' its a good handling car.
ggdrew said:
This is a good article, because its about time that someone pointed to the Emperor's lack of clothes. I have no axe to grind: I have had a Westfield since early 1990's and have got to understand their limitations. I've made significant suspension changes and its now pretty scalpel-like on track - don't know that I'd want a Ghurka-Knife tbh
Point is: there's something wrong with the basic kinematics (suspension pick-up points locations, and wishbone geometry) - doing toe-in, camber won't fix that, you're just fiddling to get the wheels at least pointing in the right direction, not fixing the poor suspension design.
Caterham on the other hand have a sublime front-end suspension design; and the rear is so predictable & progressive. Comes from their Lotus DNA, I've no doubt. People 'in the know', know from driving them. You can see them at Goodwood approaching Woodcote at 130 and then with a flick, they 'back-them-in' like a MotoGP rider.... one after another. No other 7-type kit-car has the level of predictability and progression.
I'm just disappointed that the company can't or won't address the suspension's 'dead' feeling and lack of progressive grip. I suspect they just don't know what they are doing - otherwise why put out there a powerful car with a slow rack and steering wheel the size of dustbin lid? It seems to be they just want to sell something that 'looks like' its a good handling car.
Nail - Head interface!Point is: there's something wrong with the basic kinematics (suspension pick-up points locations, and wishbone geometry) - doing toe-in, camber won't fix that, you're just fiddling to get the wheels at least pointing in the right direction, not fixing the poor suspension design.
Caterham on the other hand have a sublime front-end suspension design; and the rear is so predictable & progressive. Comes from their Lotus DNA, I've no doubt. People 'in the know', know from driving them. You can see them at Goodwood approaching Woodcote at 130 and then with a flick, they 'back-them-in' like a MotoGP rider.... one after another. No other 7-type kit-car has the level of predictability and progression.
I'm just disappointed that the company can't or won't address the suspension's 'dead' feeling and lack of progressive grip. I suspect they just don't know what they are doing - otherwise why put out there a powerful car with a slow rack and steering wheel the size of dustbin lid? It seems to be they just want to sell something that 'looks like' its a good handling car.
Redwest said:
The whole point to a car like this is that you can change any and everything, sorting sorting suspension, ride and steering just takes a bit of time and practice. For the money you cant get more smile per lap/mile!
Suspension is more than spring and damper rates, or are you planning on changing the chassis mount points and the components?.
culpz said:
Hat off to you sir! Wish i could have done that, at a similar age, but insurance for me has always been a killer.
It would be awesome as a daily. Depreciation is nil. In fact, they're more likely to appreciate, if anything, so buying one will be the hardest and most expensive bit.
Therefore, man maths dictates that it's actually a cheap to run option
I am very fortunate to have a decent job, and these type of cars from what I understand are not that expensive to run - they're not crazy on insurance or petrol or maintenance. There's little to go wrong and working on them shouldn't be difficult. The only downside is their practicality, which to be honest I don't really care about. 99% of journeys I don't need to fill a hatchback's boot, so I don't see the issue! Don't know realistically how well it goes in the pouring rain but a little water never hurt anyone, right?It would be awesome as a daily. Depreciation is nil. In fact, they're more likely to appreciate, if anything, so buying one will be the hardest and most expensive bit.
Therefore, man maths dictates that it's actually a cheap to run option
A 7 type kit car is my dream car, I can afford one so I see no reason to have one. I'm happy with my current car but will be changing it in 2 years when the lease ends, and then I see no excuse not to get the car of my dreams!
ggdrew said:
I'm just disappointed that the company can't or won't address the suspension's 'dead' feeling and lack of progressive grip. I suspect they just don't know what they are doing ...
The steering feel is largely to do with Westfield's historic use of Cortina uprights. They don't use them any more, of course - they're no longer readily available - but they use an alloy replacement with similar geometry. It's the upright geometry that largely dictates steering feel, not the wishbone geometry.Having said which, the Caterham isn't all that it's made out to be in terms of steering feel, either: it has inherited Triumph uprights that did indeed give sublime geometry on cars with the tyres they were designed for, but with modern tyres the steering on a Caterham is actually very heavy, considering the weight of the car,
The Westfield's steering and handling isn't too bad, though. It's different to the Caterham's, and certainly not as hyperactive, but as with the softer suspension, you may well think that's not such a bad thing, if you're using it mainly on public roads. It's certainly less tiring to drive fast, on the road.
If you want steering feel, however, buy an Elise or a Westfield Eleven - both of which are streets ahead of the Caterham. The Westfield FW400 also had sublime steering feel (it used bespoke uprights and a 'clean sheet' approach to the suspension design), being astonishingly light and precise, but unless you buy the one that's for sale at the moment, it's too rare to count.
While it would not surprise me if it where driven with poorly set up suspension, it really should be something that Westfield themselves of all people could get right in terms of rolling our a reasonable baseline setup.
I bought my Westfield 9years ago at the age of 21 for just under four grand and it's been fantastic fun ever since, fast road driving, occasional trackdays, and a significant amount of autosolo and autotesting work.
It's a 1991 narrowbody, live rear axle, 2l ford. Came with a quick rack and cycle wings fitted and I have installed grp seats, new dampers and a quaife diff.
I have however driven it all of the place, to work regularly, to the Nurburg Ring and a holiday in middle France and it very comfortable for what it is.
Never has it as an only car which if nothing else would require work to get the doorcards to seal better for wet weather and it is occasionally trailered as bought a covered box trailer cheaply to store it in for the first two years as a student before I had a garage.
I would love to drive a Car and understand some prefer them, but also that some thar have driven both prefer a well setup Westfield.
Go for it.
Daniel
I bought my Westfield 9years ago at the age of 21 for just under four grand and it's been fantastic fun ever since, fast road driving, occasional trackdays, and a significant amount of autosolo and autotesting work.
It's a 1991 narrowbody, live rear axle, 2l ford. Came with a quick rack and cycle wings fitted and I have installed grp seats, new dampers and a quaife diff.
I have however driven it all of the place, to work regularly, to the Nurburg Ring and a holiday in middle France and it very comfortable for what it is.
Never has it as an only car which if nothing else would require work to get the doorcards to seal better for wet weather and it is occasionally trailered as bought a covered box trailer cheaply to store it in for the first two years as a student before I had a garage.
I would love to drive a Car and understand some prefer them, but also that some thar have driven both prefer a well setup Westfield.
Go for it.
Daniel
treeroy said:
A good car is a good car regardless of how you're driving it, just my opinion 
Y'see, I'd say the exact opposite. Any car can be fun in the right circumstances (see the recent article on Citroen C1 racing!), but waiting in a tailback is always going to be tedious, regardless of what kind of tin box you're stuck in.Fair play to anyone who could endure an hour every weekday sitting in traffic (as in my commute) in one of these for the sake of the weekends. Personally, though, I'd only ever run one as a second car.
Still, great to see Westfield are still doing fine. Anyone know what Dax and Great British Sports Cars are up to these days?
culpz said:
treeroy said:
Absolutely! A good car is a good car regardless of how you're driving it, just my opinion
Worst comes the worst I could get a cheap banger to use occasionally when the westfield isn't safe / doesn't work / isn't convenient, but yes I would love to run a seven type kit car as a daily. They are not too expensive by the looks of it!
I'm only 21 so want to enjoy cars while I can before I get my girlfriend pregnant or whatever lol. And I'd rather be a cool youngster than a dad in a mid life crisis !
Hat off to you sir! Wish i could have done that, at a similar age, but insurance for me has always been a killer. Worst comes the worst I could get a cheap banger to use occasionally when the westfield isn't safe / doesn't work / isn't convenient, but yes I would love to run a seven type kit car as a daily. They are not too expensive by the looks of it!
I'm only 21 so want to enjoy cars while I can before I get my girlfriend pregnant or whatever lol. And I'd rather be a cool youngster than a dad in a mid life crisis !
Edited by treeroy on Thursday 9th November 15:10
It would be awesome as a daily. Depreciation is nil. In fact, they're more likely to appreciate, if anything, so buying one will be the hardest and most expensive bit.
Therefore, man maths dictates that it's actually a cheap to run option
The Crack Fox said:
Kit car market is dead, isn't it?
Yup. Which is why both Westfield and Caterham's former Technical Director see a better future in building autonomous golf buggies.Even fully built, there's a good chance that Locaterfields as we know them will be legislated out of existence within my lifetime (and that's not likely to be very many more years).
I was contemplating selling my Westfield SE this morning as I'm a bit skint and have it laid up. This sort of thing gets me back in the mood. I understand Westfield are considered not to handle quite as well as a Caterham but as a 23 year old sprog engineer in 1992 I couldn't afford a Caterham. I also liked the styling of the Westfield post litigation to the Caterham look.
I could never afford to put serious power in the Westfield, a moderately tuned 1600 Pinto keeping me and the insurance happy. For me, doing lots of road miles it gave the required adrenaline rush and special feeling. I also enjoyed the build up from basic components. I never really got to the point where the car was holding me back wrt handling, so for me the Caterham is better than a Westfield argument was never an issue.
As we say at work when considering whether to buy/use certain pieces of equipment, is it fit for purpose? for me the Westfield is.
I could never afford to put serious power in the Westfield, a moderately tuned 1600 Pinto keeping me and the insurance happy. For me, doing lots of road miles it gave the required adrenaline rush and special feeling. I also enjoyed the build up from basic components. I never really got to the point where the car was holding me back wrt handling, so for me the Caterham is better than a Westfield argument was never an issue.
As we say at work when considering whether to buy/use certain pieces of equipment, is it fit for purpose? for me the Westfield is.
sideways man said:
Although not a major consideration for most, the Westfield boasts a boot.!! And you get a surprising amount of shopping/camping equipment in the passenger seat/footwell.
When I'm shopping the children think I'm a bit OCD putting all the cold stuff together in the same bags. This comes from using the Westfield as my only car for a bit and having to shove the weekly shopping down the footwell. Fortunately I have a Pinto which has the exhaust coming out in front of the drivers footwell so I didn't suffer too much defrosting.
Westfield's have always appealed to me more than Caterham's, simply because I was born a stone's throw from the factory and lived even closer for the first 9 months of my life.
Great to hear they're still building good cars and the pod success is fantastic to hear. Nice to see them getting some PH attention too.
Great to hear they're still building good cars and the pod success is fantastic to hear. Nice to see them getting some PH attention too.
PistonBroker said:
...Nice to see them getting some PH attention too.
Yes, and that. I don't think the kit market is dead dead, and expect it would be fought hard if a ban was proposed. However, without customers no company will go far, and OH and the like a huge impact on peoples habits and desires I'm sure.
Daniel
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