RE: Lotus Exige Cup 430

[Tin Hat]

Porsche911R said:

its why I have not had one since my last 190bhp exige, they care not about customers, sales are so low in the UK as people keep what they have in Lotus land.

even if they did a car every year you might know where you stand, but Lotus will sell you the best car ever and a week later out comes the best car ever.

It put buyers off and hence like you I have watched all year and NOT one 380 SPort has sold off the dealer forcourt I can see, like wise we have 5 or 6 Cup 380 up with dealers at £95k which unless they drop to £80k no ones going to buy them now, cup 380 is such a dead horse at these values, I really do feel for buyers of that car being screwed over.

really you have to buy 3 year old cars at £30k discounts and be happy with it, buying new is a big risk, the Exige 430 cup is mega though and if another one came out not sure where they would go with it, 440/450 bhp means nothing, but the jump from the 380 cup to a charged cooled 430 Cup is big and owners must feel sick esp ones waiting for their cars to arrive.


Lotus if anything have opened the door to Models below the Cup 430 now

So a 410 Sport with a charge cooler at less money etc etc is more likely to happen than a model above the 430 Cup now.

If fact a whole new Charged cooled range, be interesting to see what the 2018 base model will be in charged cooled land.

Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 10th November 09:51

.....and normal service resumes.

I have a 360 Cup and I absolutely love it to bits, when the time comes for the next one, I'll look forward to considering the latest offerings.

All the whining about Lotus continually developing the car and upsetting existing owners is overplayed - Even with my short attention span, I can manage to enjoy what I bought 2 years ago and appreciate what others get now (albeit with a 60 percent price premium), without feeling betrayed.

Keep up the good work Lotus ( but please bear in mind that £100k for an Exige is bordering on the ridiculous )

[GranCab]

Lotus are taking the piss ....... full stop.

[CraigyMc]

GranCab said:

Lotus are taking the piss ....... full stop.

For making and selling a car better than a previous car?

Sheesh.

[Audemars]

The Exige Sport 350 is high £50's brand new (after discount). This is near £100k.

Totally different price points so I don't know why people are moaning about the constant new releases. I could understand if the 430 was released at £60k but it isn't meaning it is essentially a different car for a slightly different market.

[suffolk009]

^^^ Exactly.

I'm really hoping to be able to get a 350 next year. Not a chance I can stretch to £100k.

I think they'll attract completely different buyers. Simllarly, I can't imagine that a buyer of Caterham's 620R would even consider a 270.

Edited by suffolk009 on Monday 13th November 10:05

[Ares]

stuno1 said:

It’s more the ability to do trips where the exige falls down. Driving to the ring and around it for example. Hell driving to donnington from Essex! It’s just not a comfortable car to spend multiple hours in. At a lower price I think more people could justify this sacrifice. For 100k I ( and I imagine others) would like something that can be enjoyed more of the time. Still looks bloody amazing though.

I had an '07 S2 Exige from new and did several trip to the ring (from Cheshire). Easy.

[RobM77]

Ares said:

stuno1 said:

It’s more the ability to do trips where the exige falls down. Driving to the ring and around it for example. Hell driving to donnington from Essex! It’s just not a comfortable car to spend multiple hours in. At a lower price I think more people could justify this sacrifice. For 100k I ( and I imagine others) would like something that can be enjoyed more of the time. Still looks bloody amazing though.

I had an '07 S2 Exige from new and did several trip to the ring (from Cheshire). Easy.

My Elise with the hardtop was fine and I went to the ring twice in it, but I do know what you mean compared with, for example, a Cayman. That said, I had a 20-30 minute test drive in an Exige V6 on my own without the radio on and it seemed better than my Elise in terms of refinement (although the Cup model may not be...). The other thing I should say is that it impressed me more than any other road car I've ever driven, so this new one with upgrades must be absolutely phenomenal!!

[Herbs]

CraigyMc said:

GranCab said:

Lotus are taking the piss ....... full stop.

For making and selling a car better than a previous car?

Sheesh.

Exactly - it's not as if they are one of the rare manufacturers where depreciation is incredibly low....

[Porsche911R]

Audemars said:

The Exige Sport 350 is high £50's brand new (after discount). This is near £100k.

Totally different price points so I don't know why people are moaning about the constant new releases. I could understand if the 430 was released at £60k but it isn't meaning it is essentially a different car for a slightly different market.

I think the 350 people are happy,

it's the Cup 380 £95k cars all hanging about is the issue.

I would buy a Sport 380 at £70k and not have an issue with the new car coming out it's £30k more

but if I PTS a cup 380 LTD ed car at £95k thinking I have just bought the latest and greatest and a new car came out before I even took delivery which is miles better for £5k more then it's a piss take.

the 380 CUP is a dead horse imo

[MikeE]

Is the front end of this car different (apart from the obvious change to the intake mesh)?

It looks like a facelift to me, if so would the Lotus experts on here expect to see this facelift applied to the base 350 and 380 soon?

Will the 380 be superceded by a 400 Sport with the new charge-cooler and facelift?

[Tarka]

Porsche911R said:

Audemars said:

The Exige Sport 350 is high £50's brand new (after discount). This is near £100k.

Totally different price points so I don't know why people are moaning about the constant new releases. I could understand if the 430 was released at £60k but it isn't meaning it is essentially a different car for a slightly different market.

I think the 350 people are happy,

it's the Cup 380 £95k cars all hanging about is the issue.

I would buy a Sport 380 at £70k and not have an issue with the new car coming out it's £30k more

but if I PTS a cup 380 LTD ed car at £95k thinking I have just bought the latest and greatest and a new car came out before I even took delivery which is miles better for £5k more then it's a piss take.

the 380 CUP is a dead horse imo

Well said Porsche911R!

I've done some digging around this and the way Lotus is treating its dealers and customers is frankly laughable. Jean-Marc Gales has said many times to both the press and his dealers that the charge cooled engine would not be fitted to the Exige. So, assuming that "clever engineers" can overcome most obstacles, one would assume that maybe in 18 months to two years it would be perhaps possible to fit the CC engine. Thereby becomming a nice upgrade to those loyal customers who are now bored of their 380 Cups! Thus alowwing those cars to trickle down the food chain and remain an aspirational commodity.

To turn around and go "TaDa- Only joking" at this point is surely NOT the way to impress your loyal customers?

In reality and given development times (and in particular homologation times) this product must have been on the cards before the 380 Cup was announced (just seven months ago!) So what does that make Mr. Gales et al?.... Now it seems tha Lotus is mandating that its dealers order a 430 Cup a piece as a demo... The dealers also have to actually pay for these cars whether sold or otherwise; remember those recent (alleged) Lotus profit figures?

I'm sure most red-blooded enthusiasts (including me) will applaud that this car exists and many (also me included) are able to overlook the compromises that ownership demands. But, who wants to deal with a company that deceives its customers and dealers either through incompetence or design.

As a long term Lotus enthusiast and former owner, I really feel for the dealers and the customers who have stuck with Lotus through thick and (very) thin, but someone at Hethel needs to understand that selling bespoke cars into a hundred grand market place is not like selling cars to rental companies. I'm sure Mr. Gales learnt to keep his pencil very sharp at GM and PSA, but at the same time both those companies effectively failed during his times there and generating repeat business was a week area for both of those brands at the time.

If Lotus wants to take its wares into a significantly higher "price point "market it would do well to emulate Aston Martin. They have done a superb job of talking to and listenning to their dealers, customers and potential customers throughout the gestation of the new Vantage and as well as delivering a fantastic product they appear to be delivering a fantastic purchasing experience... While the Exige and Vantage may be somwhat different as products, they occupy a similar price point.

I fear It will take more than Geely's money to fix this blind spot.

Lets hope they fix it soon...

[Jellinek]

If by fix it you mean getting rid of JMG I have to agree. Lotus has been in a holding pattern over the last 3 years with a strategy that has done more harm than good and now it seems the plan is to start again with a new plan. This seems madness to me, starting all over again with new architecture and new donor components feels like Bahar all over again. Where is the stability and continuity that Lotus so desperately needs.....

The much vaunted 3000 cars a year after 3 years have not materialised either, in fact its less than half that in reality. Lotus’ “profit” this year was also only due to a lump sum payment from 3rd party, presumably Goldstar or Proton, of 750k. Otherwise it would have again made a loss.

[Adam3441]

I had a good look around an Exige Cup 430 on Monday at Anglesey. Matt Bird from PH turned up in one of Hethel’s press cars. I thought it looked fantastic and very special.

For a car you can drive to and from track that’s robust enough to absorb lap after lap of abuse with that much driving involvement and excitement, even at £100k I can’t think of anything to compare it to except other Exiges?

It will get compared to GT3’s but similarly aged GT3’s are far more expensive to buy and maintain for track use. They’re completely different cars at the end of the day.

The Cup 430 is now the only car I would shop my 2-Eleven in for. I’d love one.

[chutley]

When you get into £100k money, I would buy two cars. A fast, comfortable and enjoyable car for the road, and a Caterham/race car and trailer for the track. Who wants to take a £100k car around a track day...?

[Ares]

chutley said:

When you get into £100k money, I would buy two cars. A fast, comfortable and enjoyable car for the road, and a Caterham/race car and trailer for the track. Who wants to take a £100k car around a track day...?

Flip side is, as I have said before, based on experience, when you have a track car int the garage, you never get to use it enough, and always wish you had a better car for the 95% of the time you are in your other car.

A bit of a lesser matter with a £100k budget, perhaps (I had a c£70k budget at the time), but still an issue.

I'd rather spend the full budget on a more enjoyable daily driver, then hire a Caterham for the odd track day.

[RobM77]

Ares said:

chutley said:

When you get into £100k money, I would buy two cars. A fast, comfortable and enjoyable car for the road, and a Caterham/race car and trailer for the track. Who wants to take a £100k car around a track day...?

Flip side is, as I have said before, based on experience, when you have a track car int the garage, you never get to use it enough, and always wish you had a better car for the 95% of the time you are in your other car.

A bit of a lesser matter with a £100k budget, perhaps (I had a c£70k budget at the time), but still an issue.

I'd rather spend the full budget on a more enjoyable daily driver, then hire a Caterham for the odd track day.

There's a balance to be struck, and it's not always monetary. That balance will of course vary between people. For me, two cars has always been the best way forward and it's what I've done for over 15 years. For me it's easier than for most, because it's handling I crave, not performance, so I can get my smiles at virtually any budget. My first two car combo for example was a £3k MR2 and a £17k Caterham. I now have a £6k 320d with upgraded suspension, a £5k trailer and an £18k Formula Renault. I genuinely can't think of a four seater practical daily I'd enjoy more for my total spend of £30k, especially not with my total running costs of a couple of grand a year. I've driven an M3 and yes, they're faster in a straight line and the handling's a bit better, although they're much heavier and a huge amount more to run.

The nice thing about having a weekend or a track car is you don't need all the refinement, and something that'll do daily duties like an M3, RS4 etc is usually rubbish on track. Caterhams are a step change better than anything like that, even including things like 911s.

The trouble with hiring a Caterham is most companies are charging about £800 a pop. I've owned two and I can vouch that servicing, even at a main dealer, is about £300 a year. They barely ever use tyres or brakes and are virtually depreciation free, so even with one hire session you've virtually paid for owning one, and certainly after 2 or 3 hire sessions.

All that said, a new Exige Cup is a lot of money, and to have one as a track toy you'd need to be pretty wealthy or have unusual priorities, especially when you consider the racing cars and tow cars that money will buy. An F3 car, a trailer and an M5 to tow it all would be less. That said, many people buy from the heart and the Exige is stupendously good to drive.

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 31st January 16:44

[plenty]

Ares said:

Flip side is, as I have said before, based on experience, when you have a track car int the garage, you never get to use it enough, and always wish you had a better car for the 95% of the time you are in your other car.

This depends highly on your daily-drive environment. If you're mostly in cities or on motorways then your "better car" is either unsuitable or completely wasted. When in traffic in London (which describes 90% of my non-fun driving time) my battered 2008 A-Class is the perfect tool for the job and I really can't say I'd rather be in a Lotus or an Aston or anything else. Of course if I had some interesting roads on my commute then it would be a different story.

[RobM77]

plenty said:

Ares said:

Flip side is, as I have said before, based on experience, when you have a track car int the garage, you never get to use it enough, and always wish you had a better car for the 95% of the time you are in your other car.

This depends highly on your daily-drive environment. If you're mostly in cities or on motorways then your "better car" is either unsuitable or completely wasted. When in traffic in London (which describes 90% of my non-fun driving time) my battered 2008 A-Class is the perfect tool for the job and I really can't say I'd rather be in a Lotus or an Aston. Of course if I had some interesting roads on my commute then it would be a different story.

My commute is interesting: 37 miles of mostly twisting A, B and C roads with a range of corners, blind crests, compressions etc. I'm very lucky, but the truth is, the speed limit is mostly 60mph, the slowest bends about 45mph, average bends taken at about 50-55mph, and many bends don't require any slowing at all. Even with my energy saver tyres limiting cornering speed (a deliberate choice...), power is wasted on such a road because you only ever accelerate by 5-10mph. Handling and controls are what matters. I've always found power is only really used in semi-urban environments, where you get roundabouts and traffic lights leading onto dual carriageways. Even then, a really quick road car like my recently owned 2-Eleven simply has unusable power unless you want to risk jail time with three figure speeds.

[Ares]

RobM77 said:

There's a balance to be struck, and it's not always monetary. That balance will of course vary between people. For me, two cars has always been the best way forward and it's what I've done for over 15 years. For me it's easier than for most, because it's handling I crave, not performance, so I can get my smiles at virtually any budget. My first two car combo for example was a £3k MR2 and a £17k Caterham. I now have a £6k 320d with upgraded suspension, a £5k trailer and an £18k Formula Renault. I genuinely can't think of a four seater practical daily I'd enjoy more for my total spend of £30k, especially not with my total running costs of a couple of grand a year. I've driven an M3 and yes, they're faster in a straight line and the handling's a bit better, although they're much heavier and a huge amount more to run.

The nice thing about having a weekend or a track car is you don't need all the refinement, and something that'll do daily duties like an M3, RS4 etc is usually rubbish on track. Caterhams are a step change better than anything like that, even including things like 911s.

The trouble with hiring a Caterham is most companies are charging about £800 a pop. I've owned two and I can vouch that servicing, even at a main dealer, is about £300 a year. They barely ever use tyres or brakes and are virtually depreciation free, so even with one hire session you've virtually paid for owning one, and certainly after 2 or 3 hire sessions.

All that said, a new Exige Cup is a lot of money, and to have one as a track toy you'd need to be pretty wealthy or have unusual priorities, especially when you consider the racing cars and tow cars that money will buy. An F3 car, a trailer and an M5 to tow it all would be less. That said, many people buy from the heart and the Exige is stupendously good to drive.

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 31st January 16:44

Yes, it is each to their own. My daily cars (whilst having a BEC Caterham in the garage) were a 330d touring, then an ML500. Both lovely cars, but too often, I found myself wishing I was in something else, as even on mundane A-to-B, I wanted to be entertained. In the 4 years I had the Caterham, I did 5,000 miles whilst doing c75,000 miles in the dull car(s). I always found myself frustrated.

I sold the ML500 and Caterham and bought am Elise 111S, before trading it in for an Exile. Both used as daily driver (pre-family). I managed to get a thrill on every journey.

And I didn't know they had got so expensive. Last time I hired a Caterham was 3 years ago and it was c£350 (£200 for an evening session), both through Jonny Leroux/BAT.


All that said, the idea of a pure (ex)racecar for track is appealing....

[Ares]

plenty said:

Ares said:

Flip side is, as I have said before, based on experience, when you have a track car int the garage, you never get to use it enough, and always wish you had a better car for the 95% of the time you are in your other car.

This depends highly on your daily-drive environment. If you're mostly in cities or on motorways then your "better car" is either unsuitable or completely wasted. When in traffic in London (which describes 90% of my non-fun driving time) my battered 2008 A-Class is the perfect tool for the job and I really can't say I'd rather be in a Lotus or an Aston or anything else. Of course if I had some interesting roads on my commute then it would be a different story.

If central London, then yes. Different matter.

I'm semi-rural Cheshire. Every drive is a blat