Bmw 4 series spun out of control m25

Bmw 4 series spun out of control m25

Author
Discussion

Chestrockwell

Original Poster:

2,246 posts

112 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
Driving on an empty m25 at 3 am after dropping my mum off at Luton airport. It was raining.

Now on the way to the airport, (I’m going to get stick for this but here goes) I didn’t go over 95 mph, i must have been doing between 80 and 90, probably did 95 twice during the whole journey, now it’s 2 am, the roads are clear, I’m in a 2 year old 4 series Bmw, I’ve been driving 7 years, I have a clean licence, I’ve had one accident in my life and that was in 2012 when I rear ended a car when I had all my friends in my car, all tyres are legal, both hands in the wheel, I’m in control. I’m short sighted so I wear glasses as well so I’m aware of everything, I love driving. When I overtook cars, I let go of the accelerator and slowed down to 75/80 as the .... how do you call it, the water splashing from under the cars I’m passing made it difficult to see so I slow down to be safer, I’m not an idiot, my mums beside me and not once did she sense that we’re ‘speeding’. We all know what mums are like!

So my point is, at those speeds, everything was safe and felt safe. While it may not be the legal speed limit, if I was doing it in Germany, it would have been legal and safe. So let’s put the 70 mph speed limit to the side for a second.

On the way back, before I dropped her off, she made me promise not to speed and told me to be careful, even said I’m going to call you for the duration of the journey, I said mum, no need, I’m not an idiot, I’m going to drive the same way I drove here. Promise.

Ok, so, to my knowledge, the 70 mph speed limit came in force, like what, 40-50 years ago? Cars have come a long way since then and while some of you may say ‘yeah but you were going over the speed limit’, I’m sure (well was) that cars are a lot safer and in Germany they have de restricted autobahns where people can do 200 mph if they like. Modern cars can handle 90 mph, especially mine, maybe a 08 plate corsa on 185 section tyres can’t handle 90 mph in the rain but a 2015 430d m sport can, well...should.

Now on the way back, hand on heart if that counts for anything, I am 99% certain I was doing 90 mph and suddenly I felt the car float on the road and then slide to the left and spun out violently, I’m still shaking and I can’t remember everything but it just happened very quickly, the car must have done about 10 360 spins all WITHIN the 4 lanes of the m25 when it came to a halt, I’m actually in denial and a part of me thinks I died in that moment and this is some sort of after life, honestly, I don’t know how .... I don’t know what to say. I’ve been trying to remember when I slammed the brakes, I probably shouldn’t have but in that moment when you can feel the car slide, I just panicked. However I am 100% certain that the car started sliding before I braked so I’m not sure how it could have been avoided!

Why did this happen, it definitely wasn’t a puddle of any kind, I would have seen it or if I didn’t I would have at least felt it in the steering wheel, but let’s say there was one big enough to cause that, cars could spin out at 60 mph.

The whole ordeal It reminds me of Jeremy clarkson in that m135i, in fact it was exactly the same apart from the fact that my car didn’t hit either of the barriers and came to a halt in the middle of the motorway, I still cannot believe it. In the top gear one the 1 series actually slides a lot further away.

The reason I say it wasn’t a puddle is because you can see them on the road from a far and you slow down a little and try to avoid them safely, if you do hit one you can hear that noise and the stability control light flashes for a few seconds then it goes away, I say this because it happens every time it rains, it’s definitely not enough to make the car feel like it’s floating first then slide to the left violently!

I’m in disbelief as to how I managed to walk away from that unscathed, me and the car. I really don’t know, thank god the road was clear.

Now I will say that this has taught me a lesson on speeding, I need to take it easy, there isn’t and that extra 20 mph would have saved me, what, 10 minutes? Also if the road was busy, it may have been a lot worse and I could have been respo.....never again.

The reason I started this thread is to hopefully get to the bottom of why that happened, some of you guys on here are professional drivers and some with years and years more experience than me. Why did that happen, is it the car? Why did it happen to clarkson in the 135i. The road was tarmac and it was the nice part of the m25 where it’s very smooth around the Heathrow junction. I must add that it wasn’t frosty, it was like 8-9 degrees.

Thanks in advance and please don’t attack me! I’m aware of what happened and the risks that were involved, I have acknowledged fault and I will say that I am an idiot.....well, am I? You decide






alorotom

7,978 posts

142 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
So you aquaplaned at speed ... too much speed and water beyond the limits of the tyres

Basically not driving to the conditions

Pistom

2,987 posts

114 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
First of all, you have to accept that the person who has written this is an unreliable witness. That's you.

Unreliable as you have only your own interpretation of events.

Ones own brain is pretty unreliable at anything other than convincing us we are right. Even when not.

From the description, it sounds like a typical case of aquaplaning. Not uncommon in todays over tyred cars.

You say the tyres were good but how many mm of tread.

Did you momentarily micro sleep and then wakig up induce the spin. You can't answer tgat question reliably.

I've experienced aquaplaning on roads with little water at 70 so don't feel it is impossible at 90.







Edited by Pistom on Saturday 11th November 05:41

MRobbins1987

506 posts

85 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
As above, all of my BMW's have been terrible for it. If there's standing water slow right down, I had to drop to 40mph in a e92 on a nsl dual carriageway in extremely heavy rain and it was still rather twitchy. Just thank your lucky stars you're here to tell the story and pack a change of pants in future.

nickfrog

12,024 posts

172 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
Yes, sorry to hear that. Must have been scary. I assume you didn't hit anything, which is the main thing. You only dented your pride !

Forget about speed limits as target, Germany, BMW's engineering, Clarkson etc etc.

Basically, if your tyres saturate (as in the amount of water they have to expel is over their inherent capacity to expel it) then you'll have water between you and the road. In other words you're the passenger of a friction less object with quite a lot of momentum/mass.

The faster you go, the higher the chances of this happening so as a driver it's up to you to assess how fast you can safely go without asking your tyres to do a job that basic physics (those don't change with "progress") are preventing them to do. This could be 100mph or 50mph, puddles or not.

You mention legal tyres but at 1.6mm in the rain, legal tyres car be very dangerous. How much tread depth do you have ? Also, you mention a narrower tyre on a Vauxhall : this can be an advantage in the wet as the water has to travel a shorter lateral distance before it's displaced (compared to a typical 245 BMW rear).

Also you mention the TC / stability light flashing routinely. It shouldn't. Even in the wet, if you rely on it to save you, then as soon as both axles are saturated, there is nothing it can do to help. It can't "draw friction" from one axle to the other any longer, which is what stability systems do.



Edited by nickfrog on Saturday 11th November 05:50

Jader1973

2,182 posts

155 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
How did it happen?

You were driving like an idiot.

Learn to drive to the conditions.

randomeddy

674 posts

92 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
I think you have explained why it happened all on your own.

Yes cars have 'improved' over the years. The one piece of machinery that has not improved is the one holding the steering wheel.

The speed limit is there to protect us from ourselves which has been proved perfectly by your post. It was raining, there was standing water, you should have been going 60 not 90+. End of.

Pistom

2,987 posts

114 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
Jader1973 said:
How did it happen?

You were driving like an idiot.

Learn to drive to the conditions.
Sounds to me like the OP is quite inexperienced.

Going on a skid control and aquaplaning course teaches you a lot in very safe conditions.

I did both about 20 years ago.

It is very easy to find yourself in either situation and after the course, I found dealing with them became instinctive.

It is of course a lot smarter not to drive in a manner which puts you in the situation in the first place.

Modern cars don't guarantee your safety but you can contribute to it significantly.

g3org3y

15,194 posts

146 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
alorotom said:
So you aquaplaned at speed ... too much speed and water beyond the limits of the tyres

Basically not driving to the conditions
[/thread]

Alucidnation

12,660 posts

125 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
What a bell.

Triumph Man

6,603 posts

123 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
I'm all for driving fast when I can, and do, but 90 on a soaking motorway?! Jesus...

randomeddy

674 posts

92 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
W

Catatafish

1,041 posts

100 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
The speed limit in germany is generally reduced when raining.

Also 50% of the cause for any autobahn accident at over 130km/h is automatically assigned to you.

PGNSagaris

2,316 posts

121 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
The fact your mum wanted to speak to you during your drive back shows she is a smart lady and you drive like a fool, despite what you may think.

It's ok. Most here have been fools, myself included.

Get some advanced driving lessons. Immediately. And thank your lucky stars again nothing terrible happened

Roger Irrelevant

1,501 posts

68 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
Chestrockwell said:
It was raining...I didn’t go over 95 mph...I can’t remember everything.... it definitely wasn’t a puddle of any kind
Well I don't think we need to call in Columbo for this one - you aquaplaned because you were going too fast for the conditions. Interesting that you mention how a Corsa on skinny tyres wouldn't be able to hack it; all else being equal skinny tyres actually help prevent aquaplaning (but in fairness the lower weight of the Corsa would count against it). A BMW 430d is a great car but it can't dodge the laws of physics, and the same laws of physics apply in Germany so what the speed limit is over there may be is completely irrelevant.

LeoSayer

6,029 posts

199 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
You've seen the video of Clarkson spinning a BMW in the wet.

It was raining and there was water splashing from under other cars making it difficult to see.

And you still thought 90 was a safe speed?

Potatoes

3,565 posts

125 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
90 on a wet road?!

Debaser

3,571 posts

216 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
Sounds like aquaplaning to me.

I’m surprised at some of the replies though; 90 isn’t always too fast for a wet road.

SS2.

11,992 posts

193 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
You were driving too fast for the conditions - something most (if not all) of us have done at some point - but, in your case, it bit you.

Be thankful no one was injured, learn from the experience, move on.

Edited by SS2. on Saturday 11th November 07:13

SS2.

11,992 posts

193 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
Debaser said:
I’m surprised at some of the replies though; 90 isn’t always too fast for a wet road.
Par for the course these days..