Bmw 4 series spun out of control m25
Discussion
I'm not going to tell you off for doing 90, we've all done it, anyone who says otherwise is a liar.
You mentioned your mum didn't pick up on you speeding, and I think this is the crux of it. Modern cars hide their speed so well, 90 can feel pedestrian. Wide tyres on a wet road was the cause. You got away with it, next time drop 10 or 20 mph off when it's wet.
A shame it wasn't dry, at least you'd have the skid marks as a trophy!
You mentioned your mum didn't pick up on you speeding, and I think this is the crux of it. Modern cars hide their speed so well, 90 can feel pedestrian. Wide tyres on a wet road was the cause. You got away with it, next time drop 10 or 20 mph off when it's wet.
A shame it wasn't dry, at least you'd have the skid marks as a trophy!
Chestrockwell said:
The reason I say it wasn’t a puddle is because you can see them on the road from a far and you slow down a little and try to avoid them safely, if you do hit one you can hear that noise and the stability control light flashes for a few seconds then it goes away, I say this because it happens every time it rains
I've just noticed this bit...The stability control light flashing is the car giving you a hint that it's just saved your arse from you losing grip.
Before stability control, you'd have had to deal with that loss of grip yourself, and you would have taken the hint much more readily.
If you ignore that hint, one day you will find a situation where not even the electronics can save your arse.
When they can no longer save your arse, you are a passenger.
That was what happened.
FFS.
Modern cars do detach and cocoon the driver from the outside world and what the tyres are doing. You can be pushing on and have no idea how the car is struggling for traction because you are listening to the Red Hot Chilli Peppers on your 400 watt stereo, in your comfortable leather seats and thick carpets.
Just look at the latest Audi advert which shoes a Q5 in the rain and tells you that the car is making decisions for you for gods sake. Appalling advert.
I have had several BMW's and in the rain you have to adapt your driving as they are terrible in the wet. Run Flats, rear wheel drive with no weight over the rear axle, and dim witted electric steering are not a great combination.
OP was very lucky, you have to drive to the conditions as people have said, but you also have to be aware of your cars limitations in the conditions.
Brave post sir.
Just look at the latest Audi advert which shoes a Q5 in the rain and tells you that the car is making decisions for you for gods sake. Appalling advert.
I have had several BMW's and in the rain you have to adapt your driving as they are terrible in the wet. Run Flats, rear wheel drive with no weight over the rear axle, and dim witted electric steering are not a great combination.
OP was very lucky, you have to drive to the conditions as people have said, but you also have to be aware of your cars limitations in the conditions.
Brave post sir.
Pistom said:
First of all, you have to accept that the person who has written this is an unreliable witness. That's you.
Unreliable as you have only your own interpretation of events.
Ones own brain is pretty unreliable at anything other than convincing us we are right. Even when not.
From the description, it sounds like a typical case of aquaplaning. Not uncommon in todays over tyred cars.
You say the tyres were good but how many mm of tread.
Did you momentarily micro sleep and then wakig up induce the spin. You can't answer tgat question reliably.
I've experienced aquaplaning on roads with little water at 70 so don't feel it is impossible at 90.
Chestrockwell has received a lot of good advice on this thread, but that's probably the best. Unreliable as you have only your own interpretation of events.
Ones own brain is pretty unreliable at anything other than convincing us we are right. Even when not.
From the description, it sounds like a typical case of aquaplaning. Not uncommon in todays over tyred cars.
You say the tyres were good but how many mm of tread.
Did you momentarily micro sleep and then wakig up induce the spin. You can't answer tgat question reliably.
I've experienced aquaplaning on roads with little water at 70 so don't feel it is impossible at 90.
That said... OP, if a light whose purpose is to alert you to unusual conditions goes off and you don't know why...
LISTEN TO IT.
Or, well, this will happen. Traction control is a fallible, last-ditch attempt to prevent you splatting into a tree, not something you're supposed to rely on daily.
swerni said:
Utter b
ks.
We are more than capable of leaning without experiencing it ourself.
What has he learned? Don't drive so fast in the wet? Must of us realise that without having to spin on the M25
I don't need to crash a car at 150mph to understand the likely outcome.
No not utter bks.We are more than capable of leaning without experiencing it ourself.
What has he learned? Don't drive so fast in the wet? Must of us realise that without having to spin on the M25
I don't need to crash a car at 150mph to understand the likely outcome.
ks, the hardest hitting lessons in life are the ones that directly affect us. Can't you remember being young, invincible and feeling "that won't ever happen to me?"A near death experience will really shake you up and cause you evaluate things differently. For most this will be their first accident, this chap got lucky in that his accident did result in any damage or injury. It makes the danger real, not just text book.
So yeah, Chestrockwell, you drove like an idiot and nearly paid the ultimate price. But good on you for posting about it publicly and reminding us all of the danger.
I for one am glad you told your tale.
Edited by Mike335i on Saturday 11th November 09:12
TooMany2cvs said:
Chestrockwell said:
The reason I say it wasn’t a puddle is because you can see them on the road from a far and you slow down a little and try to avoid them safely, if you do hit one you can hear that noise and the stability control light flashes for a few seconds then it goes away, I say this because it happens every time it rains
I've just noticed this bit...The stability control light flashing is the car giving you a hint that it's just saved your arse from you losing grip.
Before stability control, you'd have had to deal with that loss of grip yourself, and you would have taken the hint much more readily.
If you ignore that hint, one day you will find a situation where not even the electronics can save your arse.
When they can no longer save your arse, you are a passenger.
That was what happened.
FFS.
67Dino said:
J4CKO said:
You dodged a bullet and gained experience without pain, death or expense, sometimes luck is on your side, glad you are ok.
This. Plus thanks for being honest and sharing - could just be that recalling this post saves a fellow PHer’s life one day.OP, lesson learned, could have been far worse but ultimately no harm done. I'm sure we've all had near misses at some point.
But he has been driving for 7 years.
Seems like he has been relying on car electronics for too long and does not understand how to drive. Got bitten on the arse which should serve him right.
I wish more people realised that they are actually a bit st and their cars are actually doing the driving. That may make them think about their actions behind the wheel.
Seems like he has been relying on car electronics for too long and does not understand how to drive. Got bitten on the arse which should serve him right.
I wish more people realised that they are actually a bit s
t and their cars are actually doing the driving. That may make them think about their actions behind the wheel.alorotom said:
So you aquaplaned at speed ... too much speed and water beyond the limits of the tyres
Basically not driving to the conditions
See this to often. Hard rain and poor conditions and RWD. Basically not driving to the conditions
It seems people dont understand RWD.
Whilst I'm crawling in my M3 and it's chucking it down I would guarantee usually a 5 or 6 series would be doing double the speed in the third lane and braking non stop.
Of course this was 100% driver error, and by pure luck has turned into one of the best learning experiences possible.
But, I do think some of this might be due to the OP only having experience of good, modern cars (a pure guess). A 430d will cosset and hide almost all “mechanical” goings on. And has been mentioned, lots of marketing focuses on how modern cars will sort everything out (Q5 example). Of course, until the point it can’t, then things go wrong really quickly. An E30 325i on the same tyres would mechanically have been hardly any less capable in those exact conditions. But I doubt the OP would have got near 90 before realising it was pretty treacherous...
But, I do think some of this might be due to the OP only having experience of good, modern cars (a pure guess). A 430d will cosset and hide almost all “mechanical” goings on. And has been mentioned, lots of marketing focuses on how modern cars will sort everything out (Q5 example). Of course, until the point it can’t, then things go wrong really quickly. An E30 325i on the same tyres would mechanically have been hardly any less capable in those exact conditions. But I doubt the OP would have got near 90 before realising it was pretty treacherous...
HannsG said:
alorotom said:
So you aquaplaned at speed ... too much speed and water beyond the limits of the tyres
Basically not driving to the conditions
See this to often. Hard rain and poor conditions and RWD. Basically not driving to the conditions
It seems people dont understand RWD.
Whilst I'm crawling in my M3 and it's chucking it down I would guarantee usually a 5 or 6 series would be doing double the speed in the third lane and braking non stop.
SidewaysSi said:
Seems like he has been relying on car electronics for too long and does not understand how to drive. Got bitten on the arse which should serve him right.
I wish more people realised that they are actually a bit st and their cars are actually doing the driving. That may make them think about their actions behind the wheel.
I wish more people realised that they are actually a bit s
t and their cars are actually doing the driving. That may make them think about their actions behind the wheel.RedSwede said:
But, I do think some of this might be due to the OP only having experience of good, modern cars (a pure guess). A 430d will cosset and hide almost all “mechanical” goings on. And has been mentioned, lots of marketing focuses on how modern cars will sort everything out (Q5 example). Of course, until the point it can’t, then things go wrong really quickly. An E30 325i on the same tyres would mechanically have been hardly any less capable in those exact conditions. But I doubt the OP would have got near 90 before realising it was pretty treacherous...
^ Both of these, with flashing lights on.OpulentBob said:
+1.
OP, lesson learned, could have been far worse but ultimately no harm done. I'm sure we've all had near misses at some point.
A lot of the time, these lessons happen on familiar roads in unfamiliar conditions. If OP had been doing the journey at 6PM, this just wouldn't have happened as the traffic density would have stopped him from going so fast. OP, lesson learned, could have been far worse but ultimately no harm done. I'm sure we've all had near misses at some point.
I had a lesson myself a few weeks ago, travelling on a local DC through a roundabout that's traffic light controlled. Normally, you have to stop on the entry to the roundabout and stop once more on the roundabout to continue, and it's a busy junction.
I was driving down here at 1am. It was dry, it was mild and not another car in sight. Approaching the roundabout, all lights were green and I figured that I could get through it all without scrubbing too much speed off by choosing my line carefully. One thing that was never apparent driving around the junction at pedestrian pace was the long bump in the road through the bend. Taken at 50mph, it's another matter entirely and I made it to the other side only with the stability control winking away.
I accepted that I made a poor assessment of the conditions (driving like a knob) and chalked it up as a lesson. Thankfully again, no impact to anyone.
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