RE: Lotus Exige Cup 430: Driven

RE: Lotus Exige Cup 430: Driven

Author
Discussion

smilo996

1,406 posts

102 months

Friday 17th November 2017
quotequote all
Mighty impressive.
The have turned squeezing every last drop out of a product line into an art.

Great photos (too small as usual) especially the one from above and nice article.

Must be a hoot to drive.

richard-h425d

6 posts

29 months

Friday 17th November 2017
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Dream on Lotus....you're £30,000 too expensive if you expect to sell this one in any numbers...

Cold

4,796 posts

22 months

Friday 17th November 2017
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richard-h425d said:
Dream on Lotus....you're £30,000 too expensive if you expect to sell this one in any numbers...
It's not going to be a volume seller, no. But then it's not intended to be either. Halo model - for now.

Tankosl

3 posts

24 months

Sunday 19th November 2017
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Great looking car! I'm sure it's amazing to drive.....but.......£100k for a baby Lotus? I think that's targeting the wrong buyers.

SidewaysSi

4,448 posts

166 months

Sunday 19th November 2017
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Tankosl said:
Great looking car! I'm sure it's amazing to drive.....but.......£100k for a baby Lotus? I think that's targeting the wrong buyers.
What's a "baby Lotus"?
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kambites

54,533 posts

153 months

Monday 20th November 2017
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Thorburn said:
That isn't a Limited Slip Differential, it is the electronics applying the brake to the unloaded wheel. All of Lotus' cars now have this.
Hmm, so why isn't it listed on the Exige 430 page then? Can't it do that?

Or is this just another example of Lotus's complete and utter ineptitude at communicating about their products. hehe

Edited by kambites on Monday 20th November 09:14

sr.guiri

163 posts

21 months

Tuesday 5th December 2017
quotequote all
Bought an original Exige many, many years ago. It was awesome, probably one of my best purchases.... UNTIL.....I took it to the track, where it shone.

From that moment on, road trips in it seemed a little frustrating and pointless. Sold it soon after and bought myself a genuine Motorsport Elise. Renewed my MSA license and had a few, reasonably, successful seasons in it.

What I learned from this was....if you want a car like this, do your ARDS, get your license and go racing. For me, as awesome as this car is, when on the road, you'll only get to use a smidgen of what is has to offer - unless of course, you're an absolute maniac.

Love it, but I'd put slicks and a cage in it and it'd never see the road again. Or better, for that money you could buy a seriously specced Motorsport Elise, that'd run rings around this. Each to their own, I guess.

RobM77

31,225 posts

166 months

Tuesday 5th December 2017
quotequote all
sr.guiri said:
Bought an original Exige many, many years ago. It was awesome, probably one of my best purchases.... UNTIL.....I took it to the track, where it shone.

From that moment on, road trips in it seemed a little frustrating and pointless. Sold it soon after and bought myself a genuine Motorsport Elise. Renewed my MSA license and had a few, reasonably, successful seasons in it.

What I learned from this was....if you want a car like this, do your ARDS, get your license and go racing. For me, as awesome as this car is, when on the road, you'll only get to use a smidgen of what is has to offer - unless of course, you're an absolute maniac.

Love it, but I'd put slicks and a cage in it and it'd never see the road again. Or better, for that money you could buy a seriously specced Motorsport Elise, that'd run rings around this. Each to their own, I guess.
I have to admit, I know where you're coming from. I decided to quit racing in 2010, then decided I missed track driving and bought a 2-Eleven for track days. It was a great car, a really great car, but after three years I sold it and bought a Formula Renault, which was half the price, is miles faster and handles better. I think many cars like the 2-Eleven, Atom etc exist in a space between road cars and racing cars and are good at both, but they don't excel at either. I guess it's a bit like a Range Rover, which is good as an off road car and a road car, but doesn't excel at either. Dual purpose cars do however have a good niche for someone who wants that one car that does both tasks. Racing's also an almighty faff and I must admit I do miss just turning up at a track in the 2-Eleven and going, with minimal mechanical work, no help needed etc.

I've driven a standard Exige V6 and I must admit it does these dual tasks very well. It wasn't especially raw, so could be driven in comfort to and from race tracks (unlike my 2-Eleven!), and they cope with tracks ok too. I would have thought most buyers of the Exige need a car that does both road and track and are under no illusions that it'll drive better than a purpose built racing car for a fraction of the price.

hondansx

3,168 posts

157 months

Tuesday 5th December 2017
quotequote all
sr.guiri said:
Bought an original Exige many, many years ago. It was awesome, probably one of my best purchases.... UNTIL.....I took it to the track, where it shone.

From that moment on, road trips in it seemed a little frustrating and pointless. Sold it soon after and bought myself a genuine Motorsport Elise. Renewed my MSA license and had a few, reasonably, successful seasons in it.

What I learned from this was....if you want a car like this, do your ARDS, get your license and go racing. For me, as awesome as this car is, when on the road, you'll only get to use a smidgen of what is has to offer - unless of course, you're an absolute maniac.

Love it, but I'd put slicks and a cage in it and it'd never see the road again. Or better, for that money you could buy a seriously specced Motorsport Elise, that'd run rings around this. Each to their own, I guess.
Could you share more on your Motorsport Elise? Would love to hear about it.

Ares

6,357 posts

52 months

Tuesday 5th December 2017
quotequote all
RobM77 said:
sr.guiri said:
Bought an original Exige many, many years ago. It was awesome, probably one of my best purchases.... UNTIL.....I took it to the track, where it shone.

From that moment on, road trips in it seemed a little frustrating and pointless. Sold it soon after and bought myself a genuine Motorsport Elise. Renewed my MSA license and had a few, reasonably, successful seasons in it.

What I learned from this was....if you want a car like this, do your ARDS, get your license and go racing. For me, as awesome as this car is, when on the road, you'll only get to use a smidgen of what is has to offer - unless of course, you're an absolute maniac.

Love it, but I'd put slicks and a cage in it and it'd never see the road again. Or better, for that money you could buy a seriously specced Motorsport Elise, that'd run rings around this. Each to their own, I guess.
I have to admit, I know where you're coming from. I decided to quit racing in 2010, then decided I missed track driving and bought a 2-Eleven for track days. It was a great car, a really great car, but after three years I sold it and bought a Formula Renault, which was half the price, is miles faster and handles better. I think many cars like the 2-Eleven, Atom etc exist in a space between road cars and racing cars and are good at both, but they don't excel at either. I guess it's a bit like a Range Rover, which is good as an off road car and a road car, but doesn't excel at either. Dual purpose cars do however have a good niche for someone who wants that one car that does both tasks. Racing's also an almighty faff and I must admit I do miss just turning up at a track in the 2-Eleven and going, with minimal mechanical work, no help needed etc.

I've driven a standard Exige V6 and I must admit it does these dual tasks very well. It wasn't especially raw, so could be driven in comfort to and from race tracks (unlike my 2-Eleven!), and they cope with tracks ok too. I would have thought most buyers of the Exige need a car that does both road and track and are under no illusions that it'll drive better than a purpose built racing car for a fraction of the price.
Thats what I loved about mine, a standard NA S2. It was my daily driver doing 20,000/yr, and did 15+ track days per year.

GroundEffect

10,875 posts

88 months

Tuesday 5th December 2017
quotequote all
RobM77 said:
sr.guiri said:
Bought an original Exige many, many years ago. It was awesome, probably one of my best purchases.... UNTIL.....I took it to the track, where it shone.

From that moment on, road trips in it seemed a little frustrating and pointless. Sold it soon after and bought myself a genuine Motorsport Elise. Renewed my MSA license and had a few, reasonably, successful seasons in it.

What I learned from this was....if you want a car like this, do your ARDS, get your license and go racing. For me, as awesome as this car is, when on the road, you'll only get to use a smidgen of what is has to offer - unless of course, you're an absolute maniac.

Love it, but I'd put slicks and a cage in it and it'd never see the road again. Or better, for that money you could buy a seriously specced Motorsport Elise, that'd run rings around this. Each to their own, I guess.
I have to admit, I know where you're coming from. I decided to quit racing in 2010, then decided I missed track driving and bought a 2-Eleven for track days. It was a great car, a really great car, but after three years I sold it and bought a Formula Renault, which was half the price, is miles faster and handles better. I think many cars like the 2-Eleven, Atom etc exist in a space between road cars and racing cars and are good at both, but they don't excel at either. I guess it's a bit like a Range Rover, which is good as an off road car and a road car, but doesn't excel at either. Dual purpose cars do however have a good niche for someone who wants that one car that does both tasks. Racing's also an almighty faff and I must admit I do miss just turning up at a track in the 2-Eleven and going, with minimal mechanical work, no help needed etc.

I've driven a standard Exige V6 and I must admit it does these dual tasks very well. It wasn't especially raw, so could be driven in comfort to and from race tracks (unlike my 2-Eleven!), and they cope with tracks ok too. I would have thought most buyers of the Exige need a car that does both road and track and are under no illusions that it'll drive better than a purpose built racing car for a fraction of the price.
I'm looking at single seaters as a track toy but from what I can see, there's issues with:

1) They're too fast for normal track days and you're a liability and everything else will be a frustration, especially in the corners
2) A lot of track days don't actually allow open-wheeled cars

What am I doing wrong? smile

sr.guiri

163 posts

21 months

Tuesday 5th December 2017
quotequote all
hondansx said:
Could you share more on your Motorsport Elise? Would love to hear about it.
Oh yes, I can!!! biggrin 2.0 JUDD K series motor, good for 250bhp and revved to, I can't remember, but lots. But rebuilds we frequent biggrin. 6 speed Quaife sequential, which would hit the rev limiter in 6th on the long straight at Snetterton - never had the money, time nor inclination to change gear ratios before each race. Went through rear wheel bearings at a rate of knots - something to due with the heat being generated which would melt the grease. Broke a few drive shafts too until I found some beefier ones. Front splitters frequently got a pounding too - but made a selection out of MDF, painted them black and you wouldn't know that I was lugging around tree parts on my very desirable race car biggrin Ohlins etc, you get the picture.

Another car that I shouldn't have sold.....they only made about 60 and there's probably few left frown

GFWilliams

4,787 posts

139 months

Tuesday 5th December 2017
quotequote all
GroundEffect said:
I'm looking at single seaters as a track toy but from what I can see, there's issues with:

1) They're too fast for normal track days and you're a liability and everything else will be a frustration, especially in the corners
2) A lot of track days don't actually allow open-wheeled cars

What am I doing wrong? smile
To be fair, number 1 is a frustration in a fast Exige...

blearyeyedboy

4,629 posts

111 months

Tuesday 5th December 2017
quotequote all
Now there's an irony: It's quite hard to find a Lotus to hire for the day in East Anglia.

By the time I can afford an Evora of my own, my little one will probably be too big to sit in the rear seat...

GroundEffect

10,875 posts

88 months

Tuesday 5th December 2017
quotequote all
GFWilliams said:
GroundEffect said:
I'm looking at single seaters as a track toy but from what I can see, there's issues with:

1) They're too fast for normal track days and you're a liability and everything else will be a frustration, especially in the corners
2) A lot of track days don't actually allow open-wheeled cars

What am I doing wrong? smile
To be fair, number 1 is a frustration in a fast Exige...
An Exige (even a tuned one) is absolutely no comparison to a Formula Renault...

RobM77

31,225 posts

166 months

Tuesday 5th December 2017
quotequote all
GFWilliams said:
GroundEffect said:
I'm looking at single seaters as a track toy but from what I can see, there's issues with:

1) They're too fast for normal track days and you're a liability and everything else will be a frustration, especially in the corners
2) A lot of track days don't actually allow open-wheeled cars

What am I doing wrong? smile
To be fair, number 1 is a frustration in a fast Exige...
Yes. I'm three years of track days in my 2-Eleven I was only overtaken once. It was ok, but you did catch an awful lot of cars very regularly.

For a single seater you obviously go on test days. They cost the same, but the driving standards are higher and you can overtake in corners.

hondansx

3,168 posts

157 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
quotequote all
sr.guiri said:
hondansx said:
Could you share more on your Motorsport Elise? Would love to hear about it.
Oh yes, I can!!! biggrin 2.0 JUDD K series motor, good for 250bhp and revved to, I can't remember, but lots. But rebuilds we frequent biggrin. 6 speed Quaife sequential, which would hit the rev limiter in 6th on the long straight at Snetterton - never had the money, time nor inclination to change gear ratios before each race. Went through rear wheel bearings at a rate of knots - something to due with the heat being generated which would melt the grease. Broke a few drive shafts too until I found some beefier ones. Front splitters frequently got a pounding too - but made a selection out of MDF, painted them black and you wouldn't know that I was lugging around tree parts on my very desirable race car biggrin Ohlins etc, you get the picture.

Another car that I shouldn't have sold.....they only made about 60 and there's probably few left frown
Sounds great! I have one myself. I was hoping you still had it, as I would love to buy an original one.

sr.guiri

163 posts

21 months

Thursday 7th December 2017
quotequote all
hondansx said:
Sounds great! I have one myself. I was hoping you still had it, as I would love to buy an original one.
Me too.....it had to go, I needed the money. I think I sold it for 22K back in the day, same as what I paid for it.....GUTTED!!! Along with the 205 GTI 1.9 I sold for a grand, a Volvo T-5 R (in yellow too) that I practically gave away. You live and learn.

sr.guiri

163 posts

21 months

Thursday 7th December 2017
quotequote all
GroundEffect said:
I'm looking at single seaters ...... smile
Buy one.....my introduction to racing was a Formula Renault with a ZX12R engine. Was trawling this site years ago and saw one, I think, for about 4K. I asked my buddy if he wanted to go halves and come racing with me. A few weeks later it was on the trailer heading back to my place and not long after that we did an intensive week at Silverstone doing our ARDS.....it was probably the best week of my life. Class in the morning, lapping around the national circuit all afternoon in a variety of single seaters and production cars.

I did learn very quickly though that I didn't quite have the cojones for a winged, single seater - Copse was flat out without the slightest bit of lift, and anything less you'd lose downforce and be heading for the scenery. I was also a bit too fat - the competition were built like jockeys and young and without fear. Carrying 30Kg more in body weight is a bit of a hindrance in a 300Kg car biggrin

RobM77

31,225 posts

166 months

Thursday 7th December 2017
quotequote all
sr.guiri said:
GroundEffect said:
I'm looking at single seaters ...... smile
Buy one.....my introduction to racing was a Formula Renault with a ZX12R engine. Was trawling this site years ago and saw one, I think, for about 4K. I asked my buddy if he wanted to go halves and come racing with me. A few weeks later it was on the trailer heading back to my place and not long after that we did an intensive week at Silverstone doing our ARDS.....it was probably the best week of my life. Class in the morning, lapping around the national circuit all afternoon in a variety of single seaters and production cars.

I did learn very quickly though that I didn't quite have the cojones for a winged, single seater - Copse was flat out without the slightest bit of lift, and anything less you'd lose downforce and be heading for the scenery. I was also a bit too fat - the competition were built like jockeys and young and without fear. Carrying 30Kg more in body weight is a bit of a hindrance in a 300Kg car biggrin
yes And I'd add height to that. I'm 1.77m with long legs and I only just fit in my 2008 FR: the pedals are as far forward as they'll go and my knees are right up behind the dash; I can't even lift my right leg to heel and toe. Prior to that I raced two cars based on 1998 Formula Fords (a Van Diemen and a Ray) and a 1995 Van Diemen FR, and I didn't really fit in any of them on the basis of height. If you can afford it though, F3 and F3000 cars have a lot more space.

The other thing worth pointing out is that the mechanical layout and engineering used is all a step up from most road cars. One of the frustrations with my 2-Eleven (and the Exige I hear from owners) is the very rearward weight bias, with the engine set high and far back, whereas my Renault engine is in the centre of the car with its CofG lower than knee height. This isn't much of an issue in modern Lotuses for road driving, but is very apparent on track. Moving on to other areas: instead of a wet sump or pressurised oil system, single seaters usually have a dry sump; the gearbox will be a full racing box (often sequential, like my FR) etc etc. A good guide to the performance is that a Formula Ford is normally close to the latest hypercar around a normal track (i.e. not the ring or an oval), and then each formula gets faster as you go up.

The downside is that most single seaters are reasonably physical to drive. I'm physically pretty relaxed driving flat out on a track in an Exige or a 2-Eleven, but a single seater requires better than average arm muscles and neck muscles, plus you're squashed into a much smaller and hotter space. I'm pretty fit (I average 2 hours a day of exercise), but half an hour in my FR on a hot day is enough for me. As mentioned above, if you want to drive flat out it takes more balls than a road car because a) you're going much faster, b) they're a lot less safe, & c) they're less forgiving. That said, you quickly get used to all those things if you drive often enough; the fact that I drive a 160bhp diesel every day and only drive my FR four or five times a year doesn't help there! Finally, they're quite hard to run on your own - strapping yourself in is very difficult due to the lack of space and most have batteries so small in capacity that starting of a slave with a friend is highly advisable (although perhaps this could be changed?).

In summary, I have plenty of times when I wished I'd kept my 2-Eleven and not gone down the single seater route, but then again I have plenty of times when I think the opposite. Around a circuit like Silverstone GP, which I had the pleasure to drive this July, the performance is just amazing and I was grinning the whole way round. If I fancy a blast on Saturday though, or a last minute trackday at my local circuit, I can't, so I stay inside looking at the Bell and Colvill stocklist on my iPad!

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 7th December 14:39