RE: Tesla Roadster: 'Quickest car in the world'
Discussion
Anyway back on topic, think it’s a great looking car but for me the main elephant in the room is whether that published 0-60 time requires 30 minutes to prepare the batteries as with the current cars.
If so then it’s not a “real” Performance car because the Performance isn’t realistically or consistently available on tap, making the figure and hence the car’s claims to be a supercar slayer / game changer to be ultimately worthless and unfounded.
Let’s hear how quick it is *without* any daft time outs and so on, because in the real world nobody waits half an hour at the traffic lights for you to engage ludicrous mode
I’d also wager that until they find a resolution on how to fully charge a car OR replace its batteries instantly in the same way you can refuel a conventional ICE car, this won’t be quite the game changer Mr Musk will be blagging it as.
If so then it’s not a “real” Performance car because the Performance isn’t realistically or consistently available on tap, making the figure and hence the car’s claims to be a supercar slayer / game changer to be ultimately worthless and unfounded.
Let’s hear how quick it is *without* any daft time outs and so on, because in the real world nobody waits half an hour at the traffic lights for you to engage ludicrous mode
I’d also wager that until they find a resolution on how to fully charge a car OR replace its batteries instantly in the same way you can refuel a conventional ICE car, this won’t be quite the game changer Mr Musk will be blagging it as.
Edited by mrnoisy78 on Friday 24th November 06:36
mrnoisy78 said:
Anyway back on topic, think it’s a great looking car but for me the main elephant in the room is whether that published 0-60 time requires 30 minutes to prepare the batteries as with the current cars.
If so then it’s not a “real” Performance car because the Performance isn’t realistically or consistently available on tap, making the figure and hence the car’s claims to be a supercar slayer / game changer to be ultimately worthless and unfounded.
Let’s hear how quick it is *without* any daft time outs and so on, because in the real world nobody waits half an hour at the traffic lights for you to engage ludicrous mode
I’d also wager that until they find a resolution on how to fully charge a car OR replace its batteries instantly in the same way you can refuel a conventional ICE car, this won’t be quite the game changer Mr Musk will be blagging it as.
But the problem with changing the batteries is that they're built in under the floor. If you positioned them all under the bonnet or in the boot then you'd lose all the packaging advantages.If so then it’s not a “real” Performance car because the Performance isn’t realistically or consistently available on tap, making the figure and hence the car’s claims to be a supercar slayer / game changer to be ultimately worthless and unfounded.
Let’s hear how quick it is *without* any daft time outs and so on, because in the real world nobody waits half an hour at the traffic lights for you to engage ludicrous mode
I’d also wager that until they find a resolution on how to fully charge a car OR replace its batteries instantly in the same way you can refuel a conventional ICE car, this won’t be quite the game changer Mr Musk will be blagging it as.
Edited by mrnoisy78 on Friday 24th November 06:36
suffolk009 said:
But the problem with changing the batteries is that they're built in under the floor. If you positioned them all under the bonnet or in the boot then you'd lose all the packaging advantages.
Plus, you'd create audi-levels of handling 
Not to mention safety, crumple zones and rupturing batteries...
otolith said:
I reckon safety critical vehicle control systems are probably a tiny weeny bit more rigorously engineered that spellcheckers.
I wouldn't bet a finger on it if I was you. One example off the top of my head - Tesla's autopilot trips out on simple things like motorway junctions/slip roads (it slows down for no reason) which are a basic thing to get right before go live I reckon. Nanook said:
8V085 said:
Just because you don't like the question doesn't mean it's not valid. This isn't any sort of manufacturing company, it's a company that deals with building cars claiming that it's not a car building company. It's a company that likes to overpromise and underdeliver, each time balancing on the verge of going under. This time the scale is magnitudes greater than all previous attempts combined, and at this burn rate sweet talking won't do much even if the sheep are willing to keep listening to it. I like their ideas but there's this snake oil, Enron kind of whiff that - since I'm not a sheep - I can't ignore.
It's not that I don't like the question, it's that you posted it instead of an answer.
But yeah, you can see through all the smoke and mirrors because you're not a sheep, you're actually a financial and business genius that can easily predict what's going to happen here.
Wait. I don't think that's quite right...
Nanook said:
8V085 said:
Yeah, because if for example you were on a bus that travelled heads on towards a wall and the driver refused to turn or slow down only a Nobel prize winner could guess what the potential outcome will be.
Sounds like you're pretty confident that Tesla is going to go bust.Strange that no-one else really seems that confident.
Nanook said:
Sounds like you're pretty confident that Tesla is going to go bust.
Strange that no-one else really seems that confident.
Tbh I can see the scepticism.Strange that no-one else really seems that confident.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a big Tesla fan and want to be adopted by Elon.
But, they have found numerous ways to fund their pie in the sky. The Model 3 is truly the make or break moment for them.
They've received about half a million $1000 pre-orders, adding up to half a billion just from customers alone. In the car business that's of course just a drip in the ocean.
I (and a lot of people with me obviously) really hope they succeed and get the Model 3 production running. But on the other hand, I don't think anybody would be very surprised if it all fell through.
It will be a sad day for the automotive industry though. When was the last time a small company from nothing broke through in that industry? We see a lot of merges, big manufacturers getting bigger and absorbing others, or others disappearing. Moving this trend forward we'll soon have choice between a grey Toyota or grey VAG.
If Tesla fails here, I find it hard to believe anybody would try again in the foreseeable future.
That said, Elon never wanted to be a big automotive company. He wanted the industry to move off fossil fuels, and concluded that the only way to do that was to show them the way. For now, the Model S is the benchmark electric car. Fast, comfortable, well equipped and not too expensive compared to the competition.
VAG have now pledged 72 billion in research in the coming years. That is a ridiculous amount of money and will go a long way of making the electric car feasible for "the people".
But, again, I hope Tesla does it. But I wouldn't put my life's savings on it.
Tesla will survive next year. The current production problems are due to a massive unexpected order book and skipping a crucial VP production process (essentially a high volume line trial), I have no inside knowledge but would estimate production will start increasing significantly in 1st Qtr 2018.
As hinted above Tesla are riding high at the moment as they were the 1st "proper" EV, however I'm not sure how they will survive in the long term against all the Global Auto players with much deeper pockets.
As hinted above Tesla are riding high at the moment as they were the 1st "proper" EV, however I'm not sure how they will survive in the long term against all the Global Auto players with much deeper pockets.
WestyCarl said:
As hinted above Tesla are riding high at the moment as they were the 1st "proper" EV, however I'm not sure how they will survive in the long term against all the Global Auto players with much deeper pockets.
While this is true, the Model S is about 5 years old now.Where's the alternative from VAG, BMW, Mercedes,...?
WestyCarl said:
As hinted above Tesla are riding high at the moment as they were the 1st "proper" EV, however I'm not sure how they will survive in the long term against all the Global Auto players with much deeper pockets.
Very worst case is that someone will buy them so 'surviving' as such is not in question, the brand is strong and they has some experienced engineers which are always sought after. Google almost bought them when they were going bust a few years ago.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/apr/21...
Nanook said:
8V085 said:
Would you like me to wipe your ass too?
Ever heard the phrase "burden of proof"?Nanook said:
Sounds like you're pretty confident that Tesla is going to go bust.
Strange that no-one else really seems that confident.
Actually, have you ever heard of reading with understanding? I don't claim that they are doomed, the numbers by which the companies' performance is measured are showing that at current burn rate they'll run out of cash in 2018. And there aren't that many viable options for cash injection, unless they start making Model 3 in numbers that will meet markets' expectations. Simple. And it's been mentioned in this and the other Tesla threads already, including links. Therefore when you ask me to guide you by hand I have to say go away you lazy, entitled, patronising git.Strange that no-one else really seems that confident.
fblm said:
Nanook said:
I'm not asking you to guide me by the hand, I'm asking you to show the evidence/proof that supports your stance. You seem unable to do so. I'm not surprised.
This isn't a court. If you're interested Google reaction to their q3 earnings. UBS's piece in particular.Nanook said:
It's not?
f
k, I didn't realise that.
In that case, it's obvious to all that Tesla are fked. I mean, our man here even compared it to a bus crashing, instead of making any attempt to actually back up what he was saying, so it must be true!
Laugh away, Musk isn't. In August they had 5bn in cash. By the end of q3 they had 3bn and change. During q3 they made 220 model 3's. You don't need a maths gcse to figure out that at that burn rate if the model 3 is further delayed and the cash doesn't start pouring in fast that they could easily run out of cash. They also have 1.4bn in debt coming due in 2018. Their last bond, issued in August is already trading under water so the next option is likely another share issue. Of course if they get on top of what Musk himself describes as production hell then they're golden. $40bn if.f
k, I didn't realise that. In that case, it's obvious to all that Tesla are f
ked. I mean, our man here even compared it to a bus crashing, instead of making any attempt to actually back up what he was saying, so it must be true!fblm said:
Nanook said:
It's not?
fk, I didn't realise that.
In that case, it's obvious to all that Tesla are fked. I mean, our man here even compared it to a bus crashing, instead of making any attempt to actually back up what he was saying, so it must be true!
Laugh away, Musk isn't. In August they had 5bn in cash. By the end of q3 they had 3bn and change. During q3 they made 220 model 3's. You don't need a maths gcse to figure out that at that burn rate if the model 3 is further delayed and the cash doesn't start pouring in fast that they could easily run out of cash. They also have 1.4bn in debt coming due in 2018. Their last bond, issued in August is already trading under water so the next option is likely another share issue. Of course if they get on top of what Musk himself describes as production hell then they're golden. $40bn if.f
k, I didn't realise that. In that case, it's obvious to all that Tesla are f
ked. I mean, our man here even compared it to a bus crashing, instead of making any attempt to actually back up what he was saying, so it must be true!WestyCarl said:
fblm said:
Nanook said:
It's not?
fk, I didn't realise that.
In that case, it's obvious to all that Tesla are fked. I mean, our man here even compared it to a bus crashing, instead of making any attempt to actually back up what he was saying, so it must be true!
Laugh away, Musk isn't. In August they had 5bn in cash. By the end of q3 they had 3bn and change. During q3 they made 220 model 3's. You don't need a maths gcse to figure out that at that burn rate if the model 3 is further delayed and the cash doesn't start pouring in fast that they could easily run out of cash. They also have 1.4bn in debt coming due in 2018. Their last bond, issued in August is already trading under water so the next option is likely another share issue. Of course if they get on top of what Musk himself describes as production hell then they're golden. $40bn if.f
k, I didn't realise that. In that case, it's obvious to all that Tesla are f
ked. I mean, our man here even compared it to a bus crashing, instead of making any attempt to actually back up what he was saying, so it must be true!PS The Auto industry works in such way that companies that run out of cash disappear from the surface of the earth. Or they get purchased for pennies on a dollar by those who have money in the bank or access to financing facilities.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff