Do people expect cars to be expensive?

[jkh112]

I have had experiences with main dealers where they cannot find the cause of a fault because the code readers show no fault so they fall back on recommending changing expensive parts.
I have not spent the money to change parts just to see if they fix the faults and in all cases have found the cause myself, or my indie has, just by spending a bit more time inspecting the wiring or by removing components and testing them off the car.
My experience is that the main dealers rely too much on the code readers and it is the good indies who take the time to really look into the cause of a problem.

[SimianWonder]

alorotom said:

And let’s be totally honest, a diagnostic doesn’t really take an hour to read all the fault codes - takes very little effort and isn’t labour intensive

Yes it takes time and expensive equipment but it doesn’t need to be brought into the workshop etc... for such - poor choice of example I would suggest

Spoken like a true internet expert!

I work as a service advisor at a Main Dealer; we had a customer bring in his 17 plate vehicle (which was a brand new from-the-ground-up model) in as he couldn't work out how the heating was supposed to work. I wasn't surprised, as it simply wasn't working. At all. No hot, no cold, no air full stop.

There were 22 stored fault codes, and it wasn't just the heating that wasn't working, that simply being the most obvious.

It took our Alfa master tech over thirty hours to finally diagnose, find and repair the vehicle, including working alongside a manufacturer-sent technician from their own in-house technical team, and including completely stripping the interior in its entirety to replace the faulty part, the main vehicle wiring loom, which was shorting the junction box in the rear and thus prevent the heating from working.

Diagnosing something is NOT the same as just doing a quick fault code read, especially on modern vehicles.

[Catatafish]

Burwood said:

The op has no grasp of English. Wtf is he talking about ffs

Analysis suggests he is confused by the difference between cars and car maintenance.

Which "people" ??? Single demographic or minority sweeping statement???
How expensive ???
What is expensive ??? Serious engine work lol
Not even an interesting car.

Could have been summed up by: The "agency" dont give a fk because its not their money

Recommend to test recite post to a pillar of community before posting. A GP is ideal as if the content indicates loon, medication and restraint jacket can be immediately administered. If content is too dull to post said pillar will shake head and indicate you should leave their vicinity. Smash your device(s) and place the debris into a skip. Climb into the skip and fullfill your destiny.

[Sa Calobra]

SimianWonder said:

Spoken like a true internet expert!

I work as a service advisor at a Main Dealer; we had a customer bring in his 17 plate vehicle (which was a brand new from-the-ground-up model) in as he couldn't work out how the heating was supposed to work. I wasn't surprised, as it simply wasn't working. At all. No hot, no cold, no air full stop.

There were 22 stored fault codes, and it wasn't just the heating that wasn't working, that simply being the most obvious.

It took our Alfa master tech over thirty hours to finally diagnose, find and repair the vehicle, including working alongside a manufacturer-sent technician from their own in-house technical team, and including completely stripping the interior in its entirety to replace the faulty part, the main vehicle wiring loom, which was shorting the junction box in the rear and thus prevent the heating from working.

Diagnosing something is NOT the same as just doing a quick fault code read, especially on modern vehicles.

That's frightening that two techs need 30hrs to find an issue. What ££ that'd be outside of warranty?

[Cold]

Sa Calobra said:

SimianWonder said:

Spoken like a true internet expert!

I work as a service advisor at a Main Dealer; we had a customer bring in his 17 plate vehicle (which was a brand new from-the-ground-up model) in as he couldn't work out how the heating was supposed to work. I wasn't surprised, as it simply wasn't working. At all. No hot, no cold, no air full stop.

There were 22 stored fault codes, and it wasn't just the heating that wasn't working, that simply being the most obvious.

It took our Alfa master tech over thirty hours to finally diagnose, find and repair the vehicle, including working alongside a manufacturer-sent technician from their own in-house technical team, and including completely stripping the interior in its entirety to replace the faulty part, the main vehicle wiring loom, which was shorting the junction box in the rear and thus prevent the heating from working.

Diagnosing something is NOT the same as just doing a quick fault code read, especially on modern vehicles.

That's frightening that two techs need 30hrs to find an issue. What ££ that'd be outside of warranty?

Strange to hear of an Alfa proving to be troublesome so early on in its life.

[alorotom]

Sa Calobra said:

That's frightening that two techs need 30hrs to find an issue. What ££ that'd be outside of warranty?

And this is the issue as the 30hrs in the above is to diagnose, find and repair ... when it was initially explicitly about Diag only - charlatans and modern day highway man

[Jimmy Recard]

alorotom said:

And this is the issue as the 30hrs in the above is to diagnose, find and repair ... when it was initially explicitly about Diag only - charlatans and modern day highway man

Diagnose:
verb (used with object), diagnosed, diagnosing.
1.
to determine the identity of (a disease, illness, etc.) by a medical examination:
The doctor diagnosed the illness as influenza.
2.
to ascertain the cause or nature of (a disorder, malfunction, problem, etc.) from the symptoms:
The mechanic diagnosed the trouble that caused the engine knock.
3.
to classify or determine on the basis of scientific examination.


This is not limited to reading the computer faults. Think of total identification of the fault. Basically everything up to actually repairing it.

[S0 What]

alorotom said:

Sa Calobra said:

That's frightening that two techs need 30hrs to find an issue. What ££ that'd be outside of warranty?

And this is the issue as the 30hrs in the above is to diagnose, find and repair ... when it was initially explicitly about Diag only - charlatans and modern day highway man

And 28 of those hours would have been diagnosing the problem, have you ever actually looked at a modern cars wiring diagrams ? a short in a wire could be found in say 3 or 4 hours where the short actually IS on that wire (including accessing the area and refitting items removed) could easyly be a 2 day job, would you rather the owner was told "right you owe us 3 hours and there is a short somewhere in a wire but we dont know where" ? actuall repair is normaly the last 10% or less of the time that goes into a job like that.

As already stated a code scan will usually tell you what's not working not WHY it's not working, so where do you draw the line ? after you know what's not working, after you find out why it's not working ? or after you find out where the problem is? all 3 are diganosing the problem ?

[J4CKO]

S0 What said:

alorotom said:

Sa Calobra said:

That's frightening that two techs need 30hrs to find an issue. What ££ that'd be outside of warranty?

And this is the issue as the 30hrs in the above is to diagnose, find and repair ... when it was initially explicitly about Diag only - charlatans and modern day highway man

And 28 of those hours would have been diagnosing the problem, have you ever actually looked at a modern cars wiring diagrams ? a short in a wire could be found in say 3 or 4 hours where the short actually IS on that wire (including accessing the area and refitting items removed) could easyly be a 2 day job, would you rather the owner was told "right you owe us 3 hours and there is a short somewhere in a wire but we dont know where" ? actuall repair is normaly the last 10% or less of the time that goes into a job like that.

As already stated a code scan will usually tell you what's not working not WHY it's not working, so where do you draw the line ? after you know what's not working, after you find out why it's not working ? or after you find out where the problem is? all 3 are diganosing the problem ?

I put a lot of time in trying to diagnose a fault with my sons Astra, sold it for scrap, the new owner took the engine wiring loom off and stripped all the insulation, tested every wire connection and eventually found and repaired a broken wire, re wrapped it, put it back and got it running, took a while apparently.

[jkh112]

OP, you never clarified what you mean by ‘the agency’. What is it?

[Limpet]

jkh112 said:

I have had experiences with main dealers where they cannot find the cause of a fault because the code readers show no fault so they fall back on recommending changing expensive parts.
I have not spent the money to change parts just to see if they fix the faults and in all cases have found the cause myself, or my indie has, just by spending a bit more time inspecting the wiring or by removing components and testing them off the car.
My experience is that the main dealers rely too much on the code readers and it is the good indies who take the time to really look into the cause of a problem.

My experience too. My sister-in-law had a Corsa with an intermittent running fault. The Vauxhall dealer had it in half a dozen times over the period of a few months, throwing thousands of pounds worth of parts at it (including a new ECU and four new injectors), to no avail. The warranty expired, and they said any work going forward would be chargeable, despite the original fault remaining.

A colleague recommended a local indie. He had the car in the workshop, found and repaired the intermittent break in the engine wiring loom that was the real cause of the problem, and charged her £90. The car was faultless from that moment on.

The Peugeot dealers I used for my company 306 and 406 also had no clue what to do if the computer said no. No diagnostic skills whatsoever. "Sorry sir, no fault found"

[J4CKO]

Limpet said:

jkh112 said:

I have had experiences with main dealers where they cannot find the cause of a fault because the code readers show no fault so they fall back on recommending changing expensive parts.
I have not spent the money to change parts just to see if they fix the faults and in all cases have found the cause myself, or my indie has, just by spending a bit more time inspecting the wiring or by removing components and testing them off the car.
My experience is that the main dealers rely too much on the code readers and it is the good indies who take the time to really look into the cause of a problem.

My experience too. My sister-in-law had a Corsa with an intermittent running fault. The Vauxhall dealer had it in half a dozen times over the period of a few months, throwing thousands of pounds worth of parts at it (including a new ECU and four new injectors), to no avail. The warranty expired, and they said any work going forward would be chargeable, despite the original fault remaining.

A colleague recommended a local indie. He had the car in the workshop, found and repaired the intermittent break in the engine wiring loom that was the real cause of the problem, and charged her £90. The car was faultless from that moment on.

The Peugeot dealers I used for my company 306 and 406 also had no clue what to do if the computer said no. No diagnostic skills whatsoever. "Sorry sir, no fault found"

An enthusiastic amateur with time on their hands and a knock off eBay diag suite, access to a marque specific forum can get a long way these days.

[TooMany2cvs]

Josho said:

Car in for a service. 2012 Corsa with 60k miles.
...
Long and the short is they are happy with it all authorise what is 700 quids worth of work to me let alone what agency charges.

Just couldn't believe how casual it all was! They apparently said let's not go mental but let's get it right.

They have a £3k car with a blown head gasket.
Do they...
a. Spend £700 on making it work again.
b. Throw it away.

Well, which would you do?

[Stormfly1985]

Not sure why people are going on about expensive dealer costs - the OP was questioning why someone would spend £700 on a stter!

I must admit my 'daily driver' Mondeo 55 plate has had tons of money spent on it, because I like the car and I want to keep it in good condition. It has a complete Ford history - 19 stamps in the book and all the invoices!

A few years ago I spent the best part of £1300 on a complete suspension refresh, including Bilstein shocks. Considering the car was probably worth about £1500, objectively it was a waste of money. However, as I drive 25k a year in it, and it transformed it's ride and handling, it was worth it to me.

[TooMany2cvs]

Stormfly1985 said:

Not sure why people are going on about expensive dealer costs - the OP was questioning why someone would spend £700 on a stter!

It's a 5yo Corsa. <points to Autotrader> It's £3k-worth of "stter".

If it was a £500 Corsa, perhaps.