RE: Prior Convictions: Urus looming

RE: Prior Convictions: Urus looming

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Discussion

captain_cynic

4,383 posts

34 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
Ninja59 said:
Sorry it is already ruined without having at least a V10, but more so V12.

It is just going to be another VAG product where the 4.0 V8 pops up again (not that it is a bad engine, but is just nothing special considering this is a Lambo). Even if they say otherwise how can engine have exactly the same capacity and setup, coincidence? Bo**ocks.

Also I think the Urus struggles with the very same issue as Cayenne in that it tries to integrate the design elements of its sister cars in the range and just looks frankly odd.
Of course, the Lambo Uterus is a volume seller, made cheap, sold for megabucks. Its the beginning of the end of a supercar maker, soon they'll offer a Lambo saloon with a V6, within 20 years they'll be as accessible as Audi... in fact the 2040 Golf R will probably be rebadged as the Lamborghini Falopian or whatever. Same with Fezza.

The Gallardo and Murcialago were the last proper Lambos made. With the original owners long gone, there's no resistance turning them into another branch of the company.

Quickmoose

3,822 posts

62 months

Friday 24th November 2017
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PhantomPH said:
IanCress said:
Big GT said:
Also if a car is designed to go 200mph, you know it will be very good dull at 70mph.
Ha ha. biggrin (That's a joke edit, right?? Nobody with half a brain actually thinks that, surely?)
can go either way can't it?
A car engineered to do 200 will feel solid and totally in control at 70...that's good
But a car engineered that way is less likely to be as involving or as exciting...that's not good
A car engineered to perform at 71mph will be pretty lively/exciting at 70....that's good
It will also be on the brink of what it can handle...which is not good.

It's better for a car to feel alive regardless though right?
You can have dull 200mph cars as well as dull 70mph cars
You can have a class act 200mph car and a class act slower car...

PhantomPH

Original Poster:

3,011 posts

164 months

Friday 24th November 2017
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NJ72 said:
ZOLLAR said:
I always mention the watches when this is discussed, my watch will stay working/pressurised down to 300M whilst remaining super accurate and is an automatic movement.

But it's completely irrelevant as the most water it comes into contact is washing my hands and I'm usually late so it doesn't matter how accurate it is.

Yet it looks good and it's nice to know it can do those things smile


Personally I hope Lamborghini do a limited mad run in the future and manage to fit in the V12, that would be great!
The difference is, your fancy watch isn't just a Seiko with a Rolex badge on it...
You understand what the MLB platform is, I assume? This is not 'Fiesta Mazda 121.

https://auto.ndtv.com/news/what-is-volkswagens-mlb...

Nothing about the Lambo (or any other car using that platform) is simply 'a Q7 with a different badge'.

NJ72

142 posts

37 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
Quickmoose said:
can go either way can't it?
A car engineered to do 200 will feel solid and totally in control at 70...that's good
But a car engineered that way is less likely to be as involving or as exciting...that's not good
A car engineered to perform at 71mph will be pretty lively/exciting at 70....that's good
It will also be on the brink of what it can handle...which is not good.

It's better for a car to feel alive regardless though right?
You can have dull 200mph cars as well as dull 70mph cars
You can have a class act 200mph car and a class act slower car...
Put it this way, the Lambo Urus CAN do 200mph. An entry level Porsche Cayman CAN'T do 200mph. Which would you want to bomb along a B road in?

I have no doubt, from the brief above, that a Urus can go PDQ along the same stretch of road, maybe even faster, but I'd rather drive the Cayman

PhantomPH

Original Poster:

3,011 posts

164 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
Quickmoose said:
PhantomPH said:
IanCress said:
Big GT said:
Also if a car is designed to go 200mph, you know it will be very good dull at 70mph.
Ha ha. biggrin (That's a joke edit, right?? Nobody with half a brain actually thinks that, surely?)
can go either way can't it?
A car engineered to do 200 will feel solid and totally in control at 70...that's good
But a car engineered that way is less likely to be as involving or as exciting...that's not good
A car engineered to perform at 71mph will be pretty lively/exciting at 70....that's good
It will also be on the brink of what it can handle...which is not good.

It's better for a car to feel alive regardless though right?
You can have dull 200mph cars as well as dull 70mph cars
You can have a class act 200mph car and a class act slower car...
True enough. My mind straight away went to the F40, which was designed to go 200mph. Not dull at any speed. biggrin Your point is (of course) totally valid.

I would wager that most 200mph+ cars, are certainly not dull at 70mph, tho. (none of the ones I've been in, anyway!)

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HighwayStar

2,223 posts

83 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
Ninja59 said:
Sorry it is already ruined without having at least a V10, but more so V12.

It is just going to be another VAG product where the 4.0 V8 pops up again (not that it is a bad engine, but is just nothing special considering this is a Lambo). Even if they say otherwise how can engine have exactly the same capacity and setup, coincidence? Bo**ocks.

Also I think the Urus struggles with the very same issue as Cayenne in that it tries to integrate the design elements of its sister cars in the range and just looks frankly odd.
A V10 or V12 is not really the point of this car though... Lambo are expecting sell loads of these to customers who have Cayennes, Q7s, X5s or whatever as their daily driver. They are looking at 3000 sales annually. They wouldn't get near those numbers with a V10 or V12. It makes more sense to use the 4.0 V8 to do the miles. Straight from the Porsche playbook.

GTEYE

1,274 posts

149 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
NJ72 said:
Put it this way, the Lambo Urus CAN do 200mph. An entry level Porsche Cayman CAN'T do 200mph. Which would you want to bomb along a B road in?
To be honest, bombing along a typical British B road in the Lambo would be pretty unpleasant, so I'll say no thanks.

But I'm sure they will have no difficulty in selling all that they can make.

Perhaps rather more suited to Dubai and LA than a typical British B road though.

Quickmoose

3,822 posts

62 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
NJ72 said:
Quickmoose said:
can go either way can't it?
A car engineered to do 200 will feel solid and totally in control at 70...that's good
But a car engineered that way is less likely to be as involving or as exciting...that's not good
A car engineered to perform at 71mph will be pretty lively/exciting at 70....that's good
It will also be on the brink of what it can handle...which is not good.

It's better for a car to feel alive regardless though right?
You can have dull 200mph cars as well as dull 70mph cars
You can have a class act 200mph car and a class act slower car...
Put it this way, the Lambo Urus CAN do 200mph. An entry level Porsche Cayman CAN'T do 200mph. Which would you want to bomb along a B road in?

I have no doubt, from the brief above, that a Urus can go PDQ along the same stretch of road, maybe even faster, but I'd rather drive the Cayman
that was what i was driving at... thumbup

Turbobanana

1,252 posts

140 months

Friday 24th November 2017
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Lambo FirstBlood said:
I saw the first unveiling of this 5 years ago along with a number of other Lamborghini owners.

If think you’re right, no one needs a car that goes 200mph round the ring and will green lane/go over sand dunes. In fact I’m not sure anyone even wants a car that does all that let alone needs it.

Lamborghini like all almost every other brand of super car, realises that a good number of their customers have other cars that they use more frequently than their Hurracans or their Aventadors. I reckon most of those people’s daily driver is a very expensive SUV. Lambo probably agree and would rather those customers bought one with a bull on the front than a Range Rover SVR/SVA, Bentayga, Cayenne Turbo S etc.

They’ll sell loads IMHO.
Spot on, I reckon.

The Lamborghini Onus will sell well, for all the reasons the Cayenne / Bentayga (and others, of course) sell well . The difference between the Lamborghini Arse and the others is the badge - this will probably be many people's second Lamborghini.

Anyway, why would you take a Lamborghini Anus to the 'Ring?



Plate spinner

12,995 posts

139 months

Friday 24th November 2017
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NJ72 said:
£5 says 99.999% of the Urus' (Urui? Uri? Uruseses?) that are sold will never see any more than a bit of grass on a verge as the barge down a little country lane expecting other motorists to kindly get out of their way.

Perhaps that is the cynic in me, but the fact that it 'can' offroad and 'can' drive around a track is all marketing hyperbole. It will almost certainly never do those things, in the same way most Range Rovers are used to ferry neon orange people from place to place in our fair capital.

Pointless marketing rubbish to eek a little more profit out of the same platform that they've developed.

Looks daft, premise is daft and most certainly shouldn't be built.

You might just find that those who care, can't afford it. And those who can afford it, don't care.

captain_cynic

4,383 posts

34 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
Plate spinner said:
You might just find that those who care, can't afford it. And those who can afford it, don't care.
Those who can afford it and care... bought something else. I almost envy your black and white world, mine has too much grey in it.

Lambo and Ferrari are going the same way as Porsche. In the olden days, when someone said they had a Porsche you knew it was a pretty fast, sleek car that could take a corner. Now you have to ask which Porsche to find out if they bought a proper one, or a barge with a badge.

BuzzBravado

2,630 posts

110 months

Friday 24th November 2017
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"It's based on the same MLB evo platform as the Audi Q7..." See when VW group does this it just puts me off the car in question as i cant help but think you are paying loads for something Skoda do cheaper. Even if i could afford a Lambo i wouldn't want it sharing its core with some everyday drodge.

unsprung

2,677 posts

63 months

Friday 24th November 2017
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If I had extra to throw round, I'd want my Urus to look exactly like the camouflaged prototype. Just sort the glass (no heavy tint).

Nope. Scratch that. Take the squiggly white and black lines of the prototype and do them one better: a full-on Keith Haring over the entire body of the Urus. Perfect for when I step out on Saturday evening in my stetson and boots.




NJ72

142 posts

37 months

Friday 24th November 2017
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PhantomPH said:
You understand what the MLB platform is, I assume? This is not 'Fiesta Mazda 121.

https://auto.ndtv.com/news/what-is-volkswagens-mlb...

Nothing about the Lambo (or any other car using that platform) is simply 'a Q7 with a different badge'.
I understand the platform perfectly - it means that the lambo is not simply a Q7 with a different badge. It's simply a VW Polo with a different badge.

I'm kidding, obviously.

But tell me that the Lamborghini isn't the same chassis configuration of the MLB platform as the Q7? I'd struggle to believe that. It may have a slightly different wheel base, as per the MLB platform, however there will be an immeasurable amount of interchangeable bits between them to the extent you could probably plonk the body panels on to a Q7.

Slightly different software for the adaptive dampers and the air bag suspension, but it'll be the same as the Bentley thing, with the same engine, gearbox, software, chassis, suspension and all that. So not 100% a Q7 with a different badge, but as near as dammit.

The main difference on the watch example is that a skilled crafts person puts together a Tag or a Breitling, whereas a Casio is mass-manufactured.

The new lambos (including the Huracan etc.) is essentially Tag getting Casio to put a Tag watch face and a nice strap on to one of their other watches.

Trophy-GTA

82 posts

37 months

Friday 24th November 2017
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Great! Another VAG for the quintessential to$$er.

PhantomPH

Original Poster:

3,011 posts

164 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
NJ72 said:
The main difference on the watch example is that a skilled crafts person puts together a Tag or a Breitling, whereas a Casio is mass-manufactured.
Erm...you might want to check that before making the statement, mate. wink ha ha. (Both of those - largely - use mass produced ETA movements. They are by and large, the watch version of what you are saying you hate!)

ETA: On the car side of things, if it were as black and white as you say, why would any VAG group bother testing a new car? After all it's just new body panels. Why waste time in development, track prep, cold/warm weather testing, etc, etc.....?

FestivAli

1,009 posts

177 months

Saturday 25th November 2017
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First a bit of disclosure, I work in an Audi dealership and our group also sells Lamborghinis (as well as Lotus, Maclaren, Ferraris, Maseratis and Alfa Fiat). Probably anyone who is from Victoria can figure out who that is. I also live near a street where most of the buyers are going to be showing off these. I think, reading reviews from the last few years, that Lamborghinis seem to be about flash first, then the driving experience, and the modern ones are maybe bought as much to post about on instagram as because they are an excellent sportscar. I think if Maclaren made an SUV that wouldn't suit the brand at all, and I think Ferraris whilst mostly beautiful attract a less(er) image conscious buyer (I have never met any of the buyers, this is purely me judging them as they pass by, purely an assumption. But a Lamborghini SUV on a platform as good as the Q7 is no bad thing. I haven't driven a base Q7, but I have driven an SQ7 and the handling is superb, not just for a big SUV but overall. I think that platform, a charismatic petrol Lamborghini engine and some dramatic styling is no bad thing, in a streetscape already full of large SUVS anyway.

Ninja59

2,043 posts

51 months

Saturday 25th November 2017
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HighwayStar said:
A V10 or V12 is not really the point of this car though... Lambo are expecting sell loads of these to customers who have Cayennes, Q7s, X5s or whatever as their daily driver. They are looking at 3000 sales annually. They wouldn't get near those numbers with a V10 or V12. It makes more sense to use the 4.0 V8 to do the miles. Straight from the Porsche playbook.
Lamborghini and sensible FFS. It is just another VW Group car rebranding exercise the whole point of Lambo originally in the car sense was something a bit nuts or unique, like the LM002!

It may drive well etc. Etc. But it is just there to build even more profit from a platform (engine chassis the lot) with minimal cost. It is just dull and lazy (i do appreciate though chassis is expensive, but at least put a unique engine in not the V8 4 litre again.

When this first appeared it was going to be a V12 at least something unique, what appears nothing like it.

Going further back really the Gallardo was going to be (and was) their cash cow. Same for the Huracan in some way. All really to justify still having a V12 mid car (murci* and adventador).

For me modern Lambo is dead the moment this appears as there is nothing unique to the brand or a bit special. As youngster a Lambo was special, as even in some case the Adventador still has something different and still unique, this has nothing. Huracan and Gallardo at least had the V10 (i know in some way this was slightly stolen by Audi but special none the less).

I appreciate in some way the old lambo wont be tolerated either, they all started sensible (ish) but ended up looking like jet fighters. They still have that child hood memory ingrained in my head (same goes for the F40 and 355).

Edited by Ninja59 on Saturday 25th November 04:44

suffolk009

3,939 posts

104 months

Saturday 25th November 2017
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It does strike me as an expensive and silly way for the skinny second wife to take her two children to private school in the morning with her yoga mat in the boot.

Given that almost every sports car maker now either has an SUV or has one on the way, I wonder how long it will be before VAG bolt the Bugatti grill onto this platform. Can you imagine the price?

Will McLaren eventually yield to the market?

Will Caterham re-start production of the mini-moke?

HighwayStar

2,223 posts

83 months

Saturday 25th November 2017
quotequote all
Ninja59 said:
HighwayStar said:
A V10 or V12 is not really the point of this car though... Lambo are expecting sell loads of these to customers who have Cayennes, Q7s, X5s or whatever as their daily driver. They are looking at 3000 sales annually. They wouldn't get near those numbers with a V10 or V12. It makes more sense to use the 4.0 V8 to do the miles. Straight from the Porsche playbook.
Lamborghini and sensible FFS. It is just another VW Group car rebranding exercise the whole point of Lambo originally in the car sense was something a bit nuts or unique, like the LM002!

It may drive well etc. Etc. But it is just there to build even more profit from a platform (engine chassis the lot) with minimal cost. It is just dull and lazy (i do appreciate though chassis is expensive, but at least put a unique engine in not the V8 4 litre again.

When this first appeared it was going to be a V12 at least something unique, what appears nothing like it.

Going further back really the Gallardo was going to be (and was) their cash cow. Same for the Huracan in some way. All really to justify still having a V12 mid car (murci* and adventador).

For me modern Lambo is dead the moment this appears as there is nothing unique to the brand or a bit special. As youngster a Lambo was special, as even in some case the Adventador still has something different and still unique, this has nothing. Huracan and Gallardo at least had the V10 (i know in some way this was slightly stolen by Audi but special none the less).

I appreciate in some way the old lambo wont be tolerated either, they all started sensible (ish) but ended up looking like jet fighters. They still have that child hood memory ingrained in my head (same goes for the F40 and 355).

Edited by Ninja59 on Saturday 25th November 04:44
What are you talking about? The Gallardo and Huracan aren’t cash cows... they don’t sell in the numbers a 911 does let alone the numbers they want for the Urus.
Lambo have said the replacement for the Aventador will be V12, if it’s stunning and amazing to drive are you telling you won’t be interested simply because they now build and SUV? That’s like giving up on your misses AND sons because you only wanted sons but she produces a daughter. Yes a total exaggeration and it actually happens but it’s equally ridiculous wink
I really don’t get folk moaning that X sportscar manufacturer builds SUV so it’s the beginning of the end. Porsche Cayennes, Macans and Panameras or of no interest to me but it didn’t stop me buying a Cayman.
If Urus money puts more ‘proper’ Lamborghinis on the road then it’s all good as far as I’m concerned.