RE: Size matters: PH Blog

[Peppka]

It was brought home to me when I was finally able to go for a spin in my recently restored 1968 Alfa Romeo Spider with a friend -talk about shoulder to shoulder it felt so small and so in contact with what was going on around you. My other car is a 2005 Alfa GT 3.2 V6 after we put the Spider back in store the GT seemed huge by comparison and you felt quite remote from the road compared with the Spider and the GT is not a big car by modern standards. She who must be obeyed has a current model 5 door Fiesta that takes up practically as much space as the GT. As for tractors and combines being involved in Agriculture for arable field work cultivation with what a tractor driver costs now there is no point sitting a bloke on a tractor if it is much less than 250 HP. I think I am correct that the maximum width you can take any piece of agricultural kit on the road without escort is still 3 metres, much of the current equipment exceeds that even when folded up, many of the large combines now exceed maximum allowed width with escort (partly why they are putting them on rubber track now along with less soil compaction) even when towing the cutting table behind on a trolley and many of the table now are 40 feet so you end up with a very long machine.

[anonymous-user]

Numeric said:

And as for the 911... while the Cayman actually is about the right size.

There is a 7mm difference in width between the two.

[skyrover]

Lets post some widths to get an idea.

Ford:

Ka: 66.7 in
Fiesta: 67.8 in
Focus: 71.8 in
Transit Connect: 72.2 in
Kuga: 72.4 in
Mondeo: 72.9 in
Ranger: 73.3 in
S-max: 75.4 in
Transit Custom: 78.2 in
F150: 79.9 in
Transit : 83.7 in

Bus: 100.4 in (max legal under EU law)
Lorry: 100.4 in (max legal under EU law)

UK minimum and standard motorway lane width: 110 to 118 in

Many legacy and ancient roads are narrower though.

[456mgt]

As someone already said, the roads haven't got any bigger. My little SC and daily driver when there's no salt on the roads.

[nickfrog]

Kolbenkopp said:

A Renault that's about 15 years old now. And at what many families with similar requirements want and buy nowadays:



Renault Laguna 2 Estate vs. Renault Kadjar.

The Kadjar is brilliant indeed, I had one as a pool car for 18 months. Very similar footprint to a Laguna 2 Estate yet so much more practical IME and 10 inches shorter (!)

Edited by nickfrog on Wednesday 29th November 09:47

[Britten]

There seems to be no allowance by manufacturers for most of the roads are old and narrow now, the longer, wider and more efficient new cars now can be a pain - car parks - the spaces have not got wider, garages- the doors or the garages in older or newer properties don't fit the average new car- there too narrow - they are still using the same openings since the 70's!
The cars I drive now, a vw golf R estate, just fits in a garage and is great to drive on most roads but when it comes to car parks I look for the empty top floor - space is king!
My other car is a Gt3 RS - nightmare on most country roads because it's so wide and as for garaging and car parks it's a no! Have to rent space for it, it doesn't physicall fit in a new garage and if it did I can't get in or out of it!
My point is manufacturers should realise we don't always use motorways to travel on, and at some point you will have to stop and park. Its tight everywhere!
But ultimately like most businesses it's all about the bottom line and sales for them - but as consumers if we can buy more for less money then that looks like great value for money and we're happy ....... until you drive it on the average road or have to park it!
Final thought - Rock and a hard place ?
Ps / love the audi rs6 and the e63s - but too small for my needs!😂😂😂😂

[Johnd52]

Agreed, manufacturers are simply responding to the ‘we want more, we want bigger’ mentality. Instead of dealing with the issue there will be an expansion of defence measures like cameras and an increase in yobbish behaviour like deliberately taking up two parking spaces, or driving down the middle of the road, because I am bigger than you. Given that we are clearly running out of road space, we should do what the Japanese do and limit the size of pedestrian vehicles. After all, the vast majority only have one person in them.

[dan98]

Thorburn said:

dan98 said:

It's a pity manufacturers don't seem to spec up their small cars the same as those further up the range, so you end up being forced into a bigger car unnecessarily.

What kit do you feel you actually need?

I like having electric mirrors, but in my daily I basically use the steering wheel, gearstick, pedals, lights and air-con/heater.
Parking sensors and rear camera get useful on some modern stuff if its very big or just has crap visibility.

Even things like sat-nav I don't really care too much, I tend to find a stand-alone unit works better than most integrated unit, and means I only have a small screen there when I need it, rather than having a 6-7" screen slapped on the top of the dash.
I very rarely even have the radio/music on when driving though.

I guess I meant more in terms of engines / performance.
For example the new Polo would be perfect for my needs in terms of size and gadgets, but in the UK is limited to 3 engine/gearbox configs (max 95hp), while the Golf has 10 choices in SE trim alone.

Edited by dan98 on Wednesday 29th November 10:56

[DeltaTango]

My last 4 cars, over the past 4 years have been in order;

1994 Mercedes e320 coupe
2014 M135i
2000 X308 Xjr
2004 smart brabus roadster

The merc was a lovely size, perfect on b roads and very wieldy due to the amazing turning circle. So much space inside but very narrow compared to even a 'golf' today.

M135i felt so wide in comparison. Hard to see out of due to huge a pillar and elephantine wing mirror housings. Much harder to place in the road which took away much of the fun of such an overengined 'little' car. The width ruined it for me.

Xjr - again for such a big car it was great. Obviously fairly wide but less so than the 45cm shorter BMW. Great visibility due to low waistline and small pillars. Much more fun than the BMW on a back road unbelievably.

Smart roadster - despite being loud and uncomfortable and sometimes a bit leaky, the size more than makes up for it. Perfect.

Cars are wider 'below the window line' due to side impact protection etc. Same for larger pillars. The combination of massively increased width plus massively reduced visibility is ruining many aspects of driving, but is quite possibly a necessary evil given the lowest common denominator of human which we have to share the roads with.

[Black S2K]

dan98 said:

I guess I meant more in terms of engines / performance.
For example the new Polo would be perfect for my needs in terms of size and gadgets, but in the UK is limited to 3 engine/gearbox configs (max 95hp), while the Golf has 10 choices in SE trim alone.

Edited by dan98 on Wednesday 29th November 10:56

Exactly.

I'd like a compact smoker with AWD torque-vectoring, 4WS and a tiny multi-cylinder engine. Some form of air suspension/variable damping would be useful on our 3rd world roads.

I don't really know what Carplay is - something you do to get it in the mood?

Clearly, my ideal would be a very expensive purchase, so would be practically unsaleable. Most people seem to prefer a massive car with massive alloys and a rattly little diesel engine.

My Leg End is stupidly massive. Until you park it next to a new 3er. E30s were sweet little things...

[culpz]

I definitely agree with the increase on damage on vehicles. Couple that with some people's lack of spacial awareness, it's never going to end well. My current B9 Audi A4 is massive and i partly blame this for the kind individual that scraped all the way down the side of it; while presumably performing a 3-point turn, using the spare parking space next to mine. No note left, either.

A huge thanks to whoever kindly did that!

[dan98]

Black S2K said:

Exactly.

I'd like a compact smoker with AWD torque-vectoring, 4WS and a tiny multi-cylinder engine. Some form of air suspension/variable damping would be useful on our 3rd world roads.

I don't really know what Carplay is - something you do to get it in the mood?

Clearly, my ideal would be a very expensive purchase, so would be practically unsaleable. Most people seem to prefer a massive car with massive alloys and a rattly little diesel engine.

My Leg End is stupidly massive. Until you park it next to a new 3er. E30s were sweet little things...

If we're talking about the perfect imaginery small car spec, I'd take Polo SE, combined with 2.0 tdi 150, 6 spd manual from the Golf. That would fly along comfortably, while giving about 75mpg

[350Matt]

I used to run a Suzuki cappuccino and it was brilliant - however 1 of the main reasons for changing it was other road users simply did not give you any respect / common courtesy

I'd tweaked mine a bit and they're not slow to start with so I'd be barreling up to a roundabout at 80 leptons and soccer mum in a her 4 x 4 would look you in the eye and pull out on you.... cue my cursing and hard braking / swerving to avoid running into her....

maybe because it was so small they thought it was a long way off..... being driven by a giant.....

[Gemaeden]

350Matt said:

I used to run a Suzuki cappuccino and it was brilliant - however 1 of the main reasons for changing it was other road users simply did not give you any respect / common courtesy

I'd tweaked mine a bit and they're not slow to start with so I'd be barreling up to a roundabout at 80 leptons and soccer mum in a her 4 x 4 would look you in the eye and pull out on you.... cue my cursing and hard braking / swerving to avoid running into her....

maybe because it was so small they thought it was a long way off..... being driven by a giant.....

Maybe it was because she got to cross the give way line and on to the roundabout before you. If that's the case you have to give way to traffic already on the roundabout.

[350Matt]

possibly but this used to happen at Tee junctions, side turns etc

basically any instance where in a normal car you'd not expect someone to pull out on you

they would in the cappo

[redrook]

"That's down to us lot demanding cars that look like concepts."

NO! It's NEVER down to consumer demand, because consumers can only demand what they are offered. Just like music and fashion, the car industry DICTATES to the consumer, it does not react to the consumer.

[binnerboy]

I noticed this when I swapped from an E90 to an E39

E90
Length E90/E91: 4,520 mm (178 in)

Width E90/E91: 1,820 mm (71.7 in)

Height E90/E91: 1,420 mm (55.9 in)

E39
Length 4,806 mm (189.2 in)

Width 1,801 mm (70.9 in)

Height 1,440 mm (56.7 in)

[anonymous-user]

smilo996 said:

Discussion of this topic by journos is at least a couple of years over due.

To meet the demands of the cult of the individual and his ever inflating ego, the car companies have done what they do best, give customer what they want. Coupled with a perverse nostalgia for the countryside now has many more people driving SUV’s.
Car companies love them because it is as much effort and development cost to design and build a small car as it is to build and egowagon but with a 1/3 to a half more metal and plastic sold to the witless customer, the margins are so much better. The consumer gets a product they want but do not need and utility they demand but do not use. The coming dinosaurs of the car world.

Even the new RS4 looks as big as the original RS6.

There is a beauty in clever and compact design. Nothing but only ugliness in flatulent solutions.

Haha couldn't have put it better myself. Folks harking on about how they need an SUV, how practical it is, yet most, despite their bulbous and manly exterior bulk, have precious little more useable internal space than a regular car. So the only things they seem to be actually good are parking badly, drinking a whole load more fuel, and giving their owner a sense of importance that was probably previously lacking!

Had a go in an a friends Clio Trophy this summer around some of Dartmoor's finest lanes. Honestly I can't think of a quicker, more enjoyable car in this environment than that Clio. The visibility out of it was fantastic and the road size so compact that it made it a doddle to position on the road without having to worry too much about verges or the potential for oncoming traffic.

Modern performance machinery with it's sheer bulk + width and being hamstrung by poor visibility (yet despite on paper being lots, lots faster), wouldn't have stood a chance against the Clio that day.

[skyrover]

Andy20vt said:

Modern performance machinery with it's sheer bulk + width and being hamstrung by poor visibility (yet despite on paper being lots, lots faster), wouldn't have stood a chance against the Clio that day.

Have to disagree there

There is no way a clio is going to outrun something like a GTR, even on twisty little country roads.

[Kawasicki]

redrook said:

"That's down to us lot demanding cars that look like concepts."

NO! It's NEVER down to consumer demand, because consumers can only demand what they are offered. Just like music and fashion, the car industry DICTATES to the consumer, it does not react to the consumer.

That is just not true, it doesn't even make any sense.