RE: Alpine A110: Driven

[bcr5784]

DaveGB said:

This is probably closer to the sad reality. The majority of sports car buyers would take a poor automatic over an excellent manual gearshift. Why? Because most sports car buyers are more interested in owning a sports car than they are in driving one.

Afraid you are right - over on the Porsche forum you find far more discussion of trim options than you will of dynamics. I fear many will dismiss the Alpine because of it's Renault switchgear, soso sat nav and lack of bling.

Re Evora I'm only going off earlier road tests - and Lotus have put a fair bit of effort into improving both their manual and auto boxes (not before time!). To be fair its quite hard to engineer a good linkage going round a transverse engine to a manual gearbox - much easier for Porsche with a flat engine.

[AlpinaB5s]

Looks like a 70s porker giving birth to a 00s porker.

[CABC]

AlpinaB5s said:

Looks like a 70s porker giving birth to a 00s porker.

that's a good spot.
yes, rear is 'unresolved'.

[Too Drunk to Funk]

CABC said:

AlpinaB5s said:

Looks like a 70s porker giving birth to a 00s porker.

that's a good spot.
yes, rear is 'unresolved'.

It looks more like the original Alpine, which pre-dated the 911.

[bcr5784]

Too Drunk to Funk said:

It looks more like the original Alpine, which pre-dated the 911.

Which is precisely what you would expect. I think you need to look at any of the Caymans (and even more the Boxsters) with the spoiler up to know what "unresolved" means (I am not sure it means anything other than an arty farty way of saying I don't like it).

[ORD]

CABC said:

that's a good spot.
yes, rear is 'unresolved'.

Nothing like Any 911. Just ugly. Most cars are ugly from the rear.

[Too Drunk to Funk]

ORD said:

CABC said:

that's a good spot.
yes, rear is 'unresolved'.

Nothing like Any 911. Just ugly. Most cars are ugly from the rear.

It is just one bad angle. The rear looks fine to me. Modern Porsches are mostly lardyarsed and they don't get any better looking. Lotus, would be more interested without the 30 year wait between new models.

[CABC]

Too Drunk to Funk said:

ORD said:

CABC said:

that's a good spot.
yes, rear is 'unresolved'.

Nothing like Any 911. Just ugly. Most cars are ugly from the rear.

It is just one bad angle. The rear looks fine to me. Modern Porsches are mostly lardyarsed and they don't get any better looking. Lotus, would be more interested without the 30 year wait between new models.

I seen two on separate occasions and they look good in the flesh. The original giving birth post made me chuckle as I could see a lardy Porsche emerging from a tight 2.4
In any case, I'm more interested in how it drives.
And Lotus steering is unmatched after decades, so still very interesting.

[bcr5784]

CABC said:

And Lotus steering is unmatched after decades, so still very interesting.

Clearly, from the tests so far, the Alpine isn't going to be the one to do it. That said, I don't understand why, with a car that light, there needs to any assistance at all at medium speeds - and therefore why Lotus couldn't be matched.

[CABC]

bcr5784 said:

Clearly, from the tests so far, the Alpine isn't going to be the one to do it. That said, I don't understand why, with a car that light, there needs to any assistance at all at medium speeds - and therefore why Lotus couldn't be matched.

in fairness we haven't felt the level of assist yet.
Also, as a daily/long distance car maybe Lotus level of feedback is too much? (for some). Most cars are so detached today that most people will probably find this a revelation anyway.

[bcr5784]

CABC said:

in fairness we haven't felt the level of assist yet.
Also, as a daily/long distance car maybe Lotus level of feedback is too much? (for some). Most cars are so detached today that most people will probably find this a revelation anyway.

True - but none of the testers are raving about the steering - my impression is that it's similar to - perhaps slightly worse than - the 718. That's pretty decent as PAS systems (and very good for EPAS) - but that's a long way from Elise or Caterham country. Personally never felt my Elise or Caterham had too little "sneeze factor". It does however sound like the Alpine is more "on its nose" than the 718 which may be an issue for some (though I suspect will be welcomed by most buyers)

The Alpine develops a lot of downforce - nearly 200kg at maximum speed (I'm surprized Alpine don't make more of it). If that is well distributed that ought to aid stability at speed.

But, as you imply, until we try it for ourselves it's all a bit speculative.

[Too Drunk to Funk]

bcr5784 said:

CABC said:

in fairness we haven't felt the level of assist yet.
Also, as a daily/long distance car maybe Lotus level of feedback is too much? (for some). Most cars are so detached today that most people will probably find this a revelation anyway.

True - but none of the testers are raving about the steering - my impression is that it's similar to - perhaps slightly worse than - the 718. That's pretty decent as PAS systems (and very good for EPAS) - but that's a long way from Elise or Caterham country. Personally never felt my Elise or Caterham had too little "sneeze factor". It does however sound like the Alpine is more "on its nose" than the 718 which may be an issue for some (though I suspect will be welcomed by most buyers)

The Alpine develops a lot of downforce - nearly 200kg at maximum speed (I'm surprized Alpine don't make more of it). If that is well distributed that ought to aid stability at speed.

But, as you imply, until we try it for ourselves it's all a bit speculative.

You may buy cars based on steering feel alone. Most people don't.

[bcr5784]

Too Drunk to Funk said:

You may buy cars based on steering feel alone. Most people don't.

I think you are getting way ahead of yourself. Steering feel is important to me, but it's far from my sole criteria - or I wouldn't be driving a 981 Porsche, would I?

[Toltec]

bcr5784 said:

Too Drunk to Funk said:

You may buy cars based on steering feel alone. Most people don't.

I think you are getting way ahead of yourself. Steering feel is important to me, but it's far from my sole criteria - or I wouldn't be driving a 981 Porsche, would I?

I'd certainly 'not' buy a car on steering feel, unless it was still better than the alternatives as a package. Even then if I was paying a relatively large amount of money to get a sports car and the steering feel wasn't good that compromise would make me far more likely to compromise by going for a much cheaper car with more flaws.

[bcr5784]

Toltec said:

I'd certainly 'not' buy a car on steering feel, unless it was still better than the alternatives as a package. Even then if I was paying a relatively large amount of money to get a sports car and the steering feel wasn't good that compromise would make me far more likely to compromise by going for a much cheaper car with more flaws.

Wouldn't disagree - but it sounds like the steering feel of the Alpine will be at least as good as my 981 - probably a bit better, so that is unlikely to cause me to cancel my deposit on the Alpine. Turbo lag and/ or lack of mechanical refinement might.

[Toltec]

bcr5784 said:

Wouldn't disagree - but it sounds like the steering feel of the Alpine will be at least as good as my 981 - probably a bit better, so that is unlikely to cause me to cancel my deposit on the Alpine. Turbo lag and/ or lack of mechanical refinement might.

I've only had a brief drive in a 981, speed was below 50mph most of the time and slower on corners, really good driving position and engine, but felt nothing through the wheel at all other than a smooth resistance. The owner is a good friend and I trust him when he tells me that it is much more alive when driven hard.

[bcr5784]

Toltec said:

I've only had a brief drive in a 981, speed was below 50mph most of the time and slower on corners, really good driving position and engine, but felt nothing through the wheel at all other than a smooth resistance. The owner is a good friend and I trust him when he tells me that it is much more alive when driven hard.

There isn't a huge amount of feel, but you do learn to read the small messages it delivers. The fact that different tyres do feel different (Goodyears better than the more common Pirellis) does confirm that. I'd certainly prefer more (and the 718 is certainly better - if not massively so) but steering feel is in relatively short supply these days.

[blueg33]

Toltec said:

bcr5784 said:

Too Drunk to Funk said:

You may buy cars based on steering feel alone. Most people don't.

I think you are getting way ahead of yourself. Steering feel is important to me, but it's far from my sole criteria - or I wouldn't be driving a 981 Porsche, would I?

I'd certainly 'not' buy a car on steering feel, unless it was still better than the alternatives as a package. Even then if I was paying a relatively large amount of money to get a sports car and the steering feel wasn't good that compromise would make me far more likely to compromise by going for a much cheaper car with more flaws.

Steering feel was the main reason I bought an Evora over a Cayman or a 997. Added to the steering benefit the handling as at least as good as the Cayman, the ride superior and the interior not significantly worse, in fact the seats were much better, so it was the better package as a whole for me. Its different for others depending on priorities.

The Alpine appears to tick plenty of my priority boxes.

[kambites]

DDg said:

I think it'll be a good car.

I think that's a given from what's been said but those who've driven it, but lots of "good cars" have attempted to go up against the Boxster/Cayman and failed miserably. The question is whether it's a great car.

[bcr5784]

kambites said:

I think that's a given from what's been said but those who've driven it, but lots of "good cars" have attempted to go up against the Boxster/Cayman and failed miserably. The question is whether it's a great car.

Not sure which "good" cars have really seriously put themselves up against the Cayster. The Alpine is the first to really to take the Cayman (sort of) head on and, in some areas, won.