RE: BMW M135i: PH Fleet

[Stupeo]

I have a 2016 M135i and I can't imagine wanting it to have more power. I know, very un-PH but I just cant see how that power would be usable. Even with the stock 300+BHP, it struggles to get it down.

But, reading this makes me want to keep mine, just incase in the future. I was thinking of selling it on, but for a commuting car, I love it.

[jason61c]

Maybe the PH staff can comment on why this seems to be about 4 x the going rate?

For £550 you're looking at a bespoke live map to suit the car.

[Oily76]

Alfa numeric said:

What do Birds do in their £2,250 370bhp remap that Superchips don't in their £450 372bhp remap?

Do Birds not provide a warranty for problems caused by the tuning? That would be worth a few quid.

[underphil]

Oily76 said:

Alfa numeric said:

What do Birds do in their £2,250 370bhp remap that Superchips don't in their £450 372bhp remap?

Do Birds not provide a warranty for problems caused by the tuning? That would be worth a few quid.

If they do, then it would only apply where the car is still under the factory warranty

[Oily76]

underphil said:

Oily76 said:

Alfa numeric said:

What do Birds do in their £2,250 370bhp remap that Superchips don't in their £450 372bhp remap?

Do Birds not provide a warranty for problems caused by the tuning? That would be worth a few quid.

If they do, then it would only apply where the car is still under the factory warranty

I see. And what do you reckon if one has taken on the 'BMW Insured Warranty' once the original warranty has expired?

[underphil]

Oily76 said:

underphil said:

Oily76 said:

Alfa numeric said:

What do Birds do in their £2,250 370bhp remap that Superchips don't in their £450 372bhp remap?

Do Birds not provide a warranty for problems caused by the tuning? That would be worth a few quid.

If they do, then it would only apply where the car is still under the factory warranty

I see. And what do you reckon if one has taken on the 'BMW Insured Warranty' once the original warranty has expired?

I'm not sure - I was speculating a bit, but that's how the large tuning companies usually do it

[Caddyshack]

I had a birds lsd and b1 suspension with hartge wheels on my 135i and it was fantastic.

I suspect the remap may be a live map and not a generic map.

The chassis when softened and lsd fitted can easily soak up much more than the standard power, I did consider a remap and think it would have been much better with the extra power. They are mini M3's...at least my coupe was.

[oversteerer]

mwstewart said:

"We did push one of these engines beyond 400hp," says company founder Kevin Bird, "but we found that the ignition timing was being retarded at maximum torque rpm in the higher gears. If you kept the throttle pinned for more than ten seconds you could also see that the throttle was beginning to close, ultimately triggering limp mode. We determined that the detonation protection was being triggered, and clearly the thermodynamic and physical limits of the engine were being exceeded at the level of boost required for 400hp plus. To get more power we would have to either open up the engine, or provide additional external equipment to increase the detonation limit of the engine."

This does not fill me with any kind of confidence. If developing a platform I would expect to be logging a multitude of things like EGT, wideband lambda, and knock. I'd want a baseline of the knock profile as standard and start to monitor that as the tuning work progresses. Basically, I'd ensure I knew the onset of any detonation before there were any symptoms from it.

It reads as though boost and fuel have been turned up until things start going wrong, and then backed off a bit.

Timing corrections on this platform are generally caused by either high intake temps or lack of octane. Adding a larger intercooler should easily liberate another 25 or so bhp.

[FlavaDave]

Doesn't interest me this stuff.

[J4CKO]

Oily76 said:

Alfa numeric said:

What do Birds do in their £2,250 370bhp remap that Superchips don't in their £450 372bhp remap?

Do Birds not provide a warranty for problems caused by the tuning? That would be worth a few quid.

At 2 grand for a remap they can afford the odd engine replacement.

That is a hell of a lot of money for uploading a new map.

I am a bit sceptical of it being a bespoke map, how bespoke does it need to be ? it isnt like BMW map each one individually before it leaves the factory, how much difference is it really going to make over a £400 Superchips job, after all the cars are all the same when new, can understand if they have had other work but I reckon too much store is put in this method and the price, it isnt going to make that much difference, not five times anyway.

[GregK2]

FlavaDave said:

Doesn't interest me this stuff.

I love that this is your 2nd post this year, makes it even funnier

[Amirhussain]

kritter86 said:

I'm sure I saw a youtube video of a 74 year old bloke who made 560 BHP from his.

https://youtu.be/EP5OkrSveXA

[Welshbeef]

Limpet said:

I guess it comes down to personal preference, and the fact that the power is so cheap and easy to unlock (if you avoid Birds), but I feel the same as you about my standard M140i. I have never once put my foot down and thought "hmmm, needs a bit more". Out of the box, 100 mph comes up in about 10 seconds. How much more performance you could reasonably need or legally and safely use on the public road?

As you say, track use is a different matter, but mine (like most others I suspect) is purely for road use. Perhaps with the suspension and LSD upgrades, it might all feel a bit more planted and less dramatic, and leave you wanting more, but I reckon a standard car with the LSD and suspension upgrades would be significantly faster everywhere than a mapped one on standard diff and suspension. Yet I know lots of people doing the map first, because it's cheap and quick to do.

A valid point.

But the. You have the M3/5 RS4/5/6/7 e63/63S
Family cars which are vastly quicker than 10 seconds to 100mph.


One might argue why do you need to go faster than 11 seconds to 100mph?
Where is the level where it’s too much?

[Scottie - NW]

This whole set or articles is a pee take from PH and showing up Birds as well.

PH is supposed to be on the side of the enthusiast, and help them find quality and value, this is misleading the readers for advertising money and not having the integrity to by clear about what is happening. There is no way these are realistic options representing good value for most people.

All Birds have done is make many others like me bad mouth them, and they deserve it frankly.

PH, once you lose integrity and trust of your readers, you don't easily get that back.

[D200]

Scottie - NW said:

This whole set or articles is a pee take from PH and showing up Birds as well.

PH is supposed to be on the side of the enthusiast, and help them find quality and value, this is misleading the readers for advertising money and not having the integrity to by clear about what is happening. There is no way these are realistic options representing good value for most people.

All Birds have done is make many others like me bad mouth them, and they deserve it frankly.

PH, once you lose integrity and trust of your readers, you don't easily get that back.

I fully agree with birds being ripoff merchants - all their stuff is massively overpriced esp remap. It would be interesting to hear their justification for a remap being £2200. You can get good remaps with before and after rolling road tests for 1/5 of their price

But don’t diss ph for this

Their are offering reader their opinions of what’s possible when modifying a m135i

As stated if you like results then go somewhere else and get same spec for a fraction of price.

They were no doubt offered this stuff for free, they’d be silly to turn it down - I’m glad they have this wee feature as it’s interesting

I also bet it would cost a lot more than £2200 to get the Hyundai i30N (aka best hot hatch in the world ) 390bhp so it’s a bargain after all

[travel is dangerous]

Esceptico said:

How come the mapping costs so much?

The problem I find with my M135i is not that it doesn't have enough power, it is using that power without spinning the wheels. If it is anything but bone dry and hot (and you are driving in a straight line) it is too easy to spin the wheels.

I like this about mine, I enjoy trying to deploy the power accurately and precisely without going till far and breaking traction.

One thing in the article... it mentions sharp throttle response... my car definitely does not have this...

[Steven_RW]

oversteerer said:

Timing corrections on this platform are generally caused by either high intake temps or lack of octane. Adding a larger intercooler should easily liberate another 25 or so bhp.

Low mileage mint m135i with JB4 turned up to the top and high capacity high quality intercooler and high flow cat didn't make the figures of these claimed "remap" only.

Amusing that 20 years later (think back to RSturbo tuners claiming 200bhp from a "chip") the same crap is being talked.

Just look at the size of the turbine housing versus the size of the turbine blades. The engine was never designed to make much or take much boost.

Don't think i don't think the car is ace. It is and the package is very fast and torquey. Just the idea that you wind up the boost with no mods and make 400 ACTUAL BHP is unrealistic having seen it tested with no agenda.

RW

[culpz]

D200 said:

I also bet it would cost a lot more than £2200 to get the Hyundai i30N (aka best hot hatch in the world ) 390bhp so it’s a bargain after all

Quite possibly, but that's probably due to the Hyundai's 50 bhp power deficit compared to the BMW's, from factory.

Hardly surprising now, is it?

Edited by culpz on Tuesday 12th December 08:32

[seefarr]

My remap (on an N54) is a Cobb Accessport which I did pay for and I'm very happy with! It was a very linear engine before the remap and didn't feel turboed. But coming from a 380hp Evo it didn't feel fast enough either. The remap has fixed that now - it feels boosted (which I love) and it is certainly fast enough. The real transformation is in the low-down torque for day-to-day driving but that can be troublesome for the rear tyres especially at this time of year...

D200 said:

People should ignore the extortionate birds prices for everything.

D200 said:

I fully agree with birds being ripoff merchants - all their stuff is massively overpriced esp remap.

Whilst I agree with the general sentiments in this thread that the remap is expensive, what else in their portfolio is a "rip-off"? I think the custom suspension packages and LSD are well-priced.

Full disclosure: I've got a Birds suspension/LSD package on my 335i but it was there when I bought it so I didn't pay. I have my car serviced there too and they're always great guys, especially the owner who is always up for a chat about what they're doing. I think you should be more circumspect in slagging off reputable companies run by decent people.

[givablondabone]

So it will cost you around 2k for a Quaife fitted including vat. Abbott will fit a Quaife to your 9-5 Aero for around £1230 including vat and that includes of course having to completely dismantle the gearbox and put it back together. Even taking into account a few new crush washers etc and new oil it's cheap in comparison. Lsd on the 135i is a simple swap over surely?