RE: BMW M135i: PH Fleet
Discussion
seefarr said:
Whilst I agree with the general sentiments in this thread that the remap is expensive, what else in their portfolio is a "rip-off"? I think the custom suspension packages and LSD are well-priced.
Full disclosure: I've got a Birds suspension/LSD package on my 335i but it was there when I bought it so I didn't pay. I have my car serviced there too and they're always great guys, especially the owner who is always up for a chat about what they're doing. I think you should be more circumspect in slagging off reputable companies run by decent people.
Excuse me but you are talking complete and utter bull – I did not slag them off once.Full disclosure: I've got a Birds suspension/LSD package on my 335i but it was there when I bought it so I didn't pay. I have my car serviced there too and they're always great guys, especially the owner who is always up for a chat about what they're doing. I think you should be more circumspect in slagging off reputable companies run by decent people.
I am not saying and never once said they are un-reputable but I – and MANY others have said the exact same here and elsewhere – they are very expensive.
Over 2200 for a remap is just ridiculous, I am sorry there is no other way to say that
They have a good reputation, which is probably why the charge so much [plus probably larger overheads] but I think they are taking the hand a bit with their pricing.
I am sure they are decent people, proper enthusiasts etc and maybe my choice of words wasn't great but that remap price is crazy
Edited by D200 on Tuesday 12th December 14:13
Litchfield have a good reputation also, and do a custom remap for a lot less (and a more realistic 375bhp for a stage 1).
http://www.litchfieldmotors.com/bmw/m135i-m235i
In fact their 'stage 2' is not much more in terms of price, and they actually fit stuff!
Hey, if Bird's can charge £2.2k and people are willing to pay that, then good for them! No issues with that.
Why is it okay for a manufacturer to charge £5k more an LSD, for example, but if a reputable tuning company to charge £3k then it's a rip-off? Same for mapping or any other modification, OEM or aftermarket, they have to spend time evaluating their packages, and to provide a well thought-out standard solution. Of course, someone always pipes up with the usual 'some bloke I know can do the same thing for a fraction of the price .. blah blah' but the surely the point is that customers are buying into reputation and reliability, perceived or otherwise, which takes time to build up.
givablondabone said:
Lsd on the 135i is a simple swap over surely?
I don't think it's straightforward as that. Quaife say on their website that installation "requires specialist machining due to the welded BMW crownwheel assembly". This also suggests to me that the Quaife diff is supplied only as a gear set, and requires transplanting into the factory diff casing. Whether Birds do this for each car, or have a stock of built diffs ready to fit, and "your" case goes on to be used by someone else, I don't know, but either way there's a labour component that has to be covered. Of course, it's not as labour intensive as a transverse gearbox removal, disassembly, reassembly and refitting, but sounds like quite a job in itself.
EDIT: As a completely irrelevant aside, I've just looked on the Birds website, and recognised their building immediately as my old office from 1997-2005 (previous occupiers). I hope they've got good security given the grief we used to have there. Small world though! :-)
Edited by Limpet on Tuesday 12th December 15:42
fido said:
Why is it okay for a manufacturer to charge £5k more an LSD, for example, but if a reputable tuning company to charge £3k then it's a rip-off?
Because other reputable companies are charging £500 for a similar good service Birds want £2200 for.In this case does BMW offer a remap for the car?
Scottie - NW said:
In this case does BMW offer a remap for the car?
Well it's called an M2 and I'd argue that if tuners are getting 400PS+ from the 135 then why doesn't the M2 have a bigger intercooler etc. - surely with their vast R&D facilities that they could have done the same. Maybe this is the reason Birds limit it to 390? My point is that one will always pay more for long-term reputation as the brand will have more to lose. Of course they could be simply taking the p1ss a.k.a. 'leveraging' off their other successful products - but this is what manufacturers do as well (VAG .. diesel .. cough) 
fido said:
Well it's called an M2 and I'd argue that if tuners are getting 400PS+ from the 135 then why doesn't the M2 have a bigger intercooler etc. - surely with their vast R&D facilities that they could have done the same. Maybe this is the reason Birds limit it to 390? My point is that one will always pay more for long-term reputation as the brand will have more to lose. Of course they could be simply taking the p1ss a.k.a. 'leveraging' off their other successful products - but this is what manufacturers do as well (VAG .. diesel .. cough)
The M2 has more changes over an M135i than a remap though. It's a coupe for a start??Manufacturers often sell cars with power outputs limited due to marketing, emissions, model hierarchy etc, a whole host of non engineering reasons.
I agree sometimes it is worth paying a little more for quality, for example I can get remaps for £250 but I tend to pay £350 to £400 to use a tuner with a good reputation and rolling road.
However in this case £2200 is just extortionate.
D200 said:
Excuse me but you are talking complete and utter bull – I did not slag them off once.
You described them as "rippoff merchants" and found the time to post twice that their entire catalog is overpriced. Whilst I agree the engine management stuff is overpriced, I don't think the rest of their stuff is?daemon said:
fido said:
Scottie - NW said:
In this case does BMW offer a remap for the car?
Well it's called an M2...http://www.bmwblog.com/2016/07/28/bmw-made-n55-eve...
gofasterrosssco said:
daemon said:
fido said:
Scottie - NW said:
In this case does BMW offer a remap for the car?
Well it's called an M2...http://www.bmwblog.com/2016/07/28/bmw-made-n55-eve...
Steven_RW said:
oversteerer said:
Timing corrections on this platform are generally caused by either high intake temps or lack of octane. Adding a larger intercooler should easily liberate another 25 or so bhp.
Low mileage mint m135i with JB4 turned up to the top and high capacity high quality intercooler and high flow cat didn't make the figures of these claimed "remap" only.Amusing that 20 years later (think back to RSturbo tuners claiming 200bhp from a "chip") the same crap is being talked.
Just look at the size of the turbine housing versus the size of the turbine blades. The engine was never designed to make much or take much boost.
Don't think i don't think the car is ace. It is and the package is very fast and torquey. Just the idea that you wind up the boost with no mods and make 400 ACTUAL BHP is unrealistic having seen it tested with no agenda.
RW
seefarr said:
You described them as "rippoff merchants" and found the time to post twice that their entire catalog is overpriced. Whilst I agree the engine management stuff is overpriced, I don't think the rest of their stuff is?
As did loads others. So are you saying their £2200+ price for a remap is not a ripoff ?BMW used to provide remaps for various models for approx 1200 with full 3 year warranty
If you got birds remap, suspension, lsd on a new 235i you wouldn’t be far off M2 money. And the M2 has far more substantial changes never mind the flared arches etc
A few years ago work mate got a LSD fitted to a 130i for just over £1000 so I also think their lsd inc fitting is expensive
Also saw on different forums people even had lsd’s fitted to c63’s for £1800 total
Edited by D200 on Tuesday 12th December 22:33
Would be interesting to hear what Birds themselves have to say, is it justified in some way we have missed, or is it that owners of new BMW's perhaps spend a bit more ?
Who else do maps for the M135i, I did read that the post 2012 ones were difficult to remap but that seems to have got cracked not long after, am interested as think I may get one next year.
Who else do maps for the M135i, I did read that the post 2012 ones were difficult to remap but that seems to have got cracked not long after, am interested as think I may get one next year.
D200 said:
seefarr said:
You described them as "rippoff merchants" and found the time to post twice that their entire catalog is overpriced. Whilst I agree the engine management stuff is overpriced, I don't think the rest of their stuff is?
As did loads others. So are you saying their £2200+ price for a remap is not a ripoff ?BMW used to provide remaps for various models for approx 1200 with full 3 year warranty
If you got birds remap, suspension, lsd on a new 235i you wouldn’t be far off M2 money. And the M2 has far more substantial changes never mind the flared arches etc
A few years ago work mate got a LSD fitted to a 130i for just over £1000 so I also think their lsd inc fitting is expensive
Also saw on different forums people even had lsd’s fitted to c63’s for £1800 total
Edited by D200 on Tuesday 12th December 22:33
SidewaysSi said:
gofasterrosssco said:
daemon said:
fido said:
Scottie - NW said:
In this case does BMW offer a remap for the car?
Well it's called an M2...http://www.bmwblog.com/2016/07/28/bmw-made-n55-eve...
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff