Alfa 4C written off (leased car help needed)

[MechMovement]

Hi all,

My lease car (Alfa 4C) has been written off. Not my fault and the other party has admitted liability.

Car was picked up in September 2017 from Thames Alfa.
GAP waiver included.

What are my next steps from here and how do I go about not ending up out of pocket?

This was my first lease car so I'm completely at a loss of who deals with who insurance wise etc...

Thank you for your time in advance.

[saaby93]

We've had sorry tales of peeps going to their own insurer who comes to an arrangment with the lease co leaving them out of pocket - although you say you have GAP.
Do you have the other party's insurance details?
Sometimes (apparently) the lease co will just give you a replacement car, sort it with the TP insurer and continue the lease as if nothing had happened

[TooMany2cvs]

MechMovement said:

This was my first lease car so I'm completely at a loss of who deals with who insurance wise etc...

Just go straight to the other driver's insurer. Make sure they have your lease company's details.

If there's a shortfall, hand it to your gap insurer.

[Swole]

Go through your insurer first, who will give you current market value. Notify the lease co, and also the gap insurer. Once current value has been agreed, claim the "gap" from the gap insurer to top it up to the original purchase price.

Hopefully all in all you'll get back your deposit and monthly's ready to start over.

[saaby93]

Swole said:

Go through your insurer first, who will give you current market value. Notify the lease co, and also the gap insurer. Once current value has been agreed, claim the "gap" from the gap insurer to top it up to the original purchase price.

Hopefully all in all you'll get back your deposit and monthly's ready to start over.

Does the gap insurance cover getting deposit back?
Why find market value when both insurer and lease co work with wholesale?

Edited by saaby93 on Sunday 17th December 15:18

[nyxster]

Check your GAP insurance policy FIRST. I was told by mine that in the event of a claim then they would take responsibility for negotiating the settlement with the insurer and then cover any shortfall to return to invoice. Since they are on the hook for the balance it's in their interest to get the best settlement possible and your policy may be conditional on them negotiating the settlement figure so I'd contact them first to make sure you comply with their T&C to validate a claim.

[saaby93]

nyxster said:

Check your GAP insurance policy FIRST. I was told by mine that in the event of a claim then they would take responsibility for negotiating the settlement with the insurer and then cover any shortfall to return to invoice. Since they are on the hook for the balance it's in their interest to get the best settlement possible and your policy may be conditional on them negotiating the settlement figure so I'd contact them first to make sure you comply with their T&C to validate a claim.

Is that where its your own fault or for a third party claim?

[nyxster]

saaby93 said:

Swole said:

Go through your insurer first, who will give you current market value. Notify the lease co, and also the gap insurer. Once current value has been agreed, claim the "gap" from the gap insurer to top it up to the original purchase price.

Hopefully all in all you'll get back your deposit and monthly's ready to start over.

Does the gap insurance cover getting deposit back?

Depends if it is RTI (return to invoice) or finance balance settlement, if its RTI you get the gap between value and full invoice price paid which less the settlement to the finance house should recover your full deposit, if its a straight shortfall policy you only get the difference between settlement and finance liability. On straight HP with RTI you'd basically get your deposit and any payments made over and above the current settlement figure, not sure on lease since they own the car there isn't a settlement figure that effectively is a right to buy under conditional sale so you'd need to check your lease contract for early settlement clauses.

[saaby93]

Where is the car at the moment - who has declared it a write off?

[nyxster]

saaby93 said:

Is that where its your own fault or for a third party claim?

In both cases - since the GAP insurer is effectively re-insuring any loss they have an interest in ensuring the settlement figure is maximised to mitigate their loss - the wording on my policy states they are to be notified in the event of any total loss through theft, fire or accident, and no settlement should be agreed n their behalf. n the event of a total loss claim they will manage the claim either with the third party insurer or your insurer and negotiate a settlement figure then cover any additional loss up to the value of the original invoice price including any excess.

As said, you need to check your individual policy since the T&C will determine what you need to do to make a valid claim and will depend on the insurer, but certainly I would notify them first to find out who should take responsibility for negotiating settlement with the insurers.

[saaby93]

nyxster said:

Depends if it is RTI (return to invoice) or finance balance settlement, if its RTI you get the gap between value and full invoice price paid which less the settlement to the finance house should recover your full deposit, if its a straight shortfall policy you only get the difference between settlement and finance liability. On straight HP with RTI you'd basically get your deposit and any payments made over and above the current settlement figure, not sure on lease since they own the car there isn't a settlement figure that effectively is a right to buy under conditional sale so you'd need to check your lease contract for early settlement clauses.

Is return to invoice good enough? Does that really put the OP back in the position he was pre- accident?

Is this the ideal route....
OP lets own insurer know hes been involved in collision but is claiming through TP insurer
OP contacts TP insurer lets them know where car is so they can assess repair costs and decide to write it off
Meanwhile TP arranges loan car for OP
If they write off the car TP contact lease co to arrange payout
As lease co invoice is for wholesale price it will be different payout to market value ( plus admin fees)
Lease co says that as car is only 3 months old he can have another added to the lease agreement and continue as he was
How close is that? Where would the GAP insurer become involved?

[MechMovement]

Car has been picked up by my insurer and is in a storage facility.

So my next steps should be to contact TP insurer and take things from there?

I've already informed my insurance of the incident.

[Butter Face]

MechMovement said:

I've already informed my insurance of the incident.

Leave them to deal with it then?

You should contact your GAP provider to let them know what is happening, but then see what happens from there.

If the car is written off, claim on the GAP. If it is not written off, carry on driving it.

Either way, the insurance company will pay the lease company directly to settle with them, any shortfall made up from your GAP.

[saaby93]

MechMovement said:

Car has been picked up by my insurer and is in a storage facility.

So my next steps should be to contact TP insurer and take things from there?

I've already informed my insurance of the incident.

Careful - your insurer is holding all the strings
They'll be wanting to make the claim from the TP plus fees
have they organised you a loan car
There'll be a minor issue with your insurance excess they'll need ot sort out from the TP
and they may agree a settlement figure with the lease co - leaving you out of the loop

What does your GAP policy say
for instance these people
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

ALA said:

We also offer GAP insurance for cars on lease or contract hire agreements - we cover your outstanding rental payments at the time of a write off, top up your insurer's settlement if needed and, if you include Initial Rental Cover, give you back the upfront rental you pay at the start of the contract.

[MechMovement]

Had to call my insurers to recover the vehicle as it was not in a driveable state and didn't have the TP insurance details to hand.

Will now get in touch with TP insurers and let them know the location of the vehicle and proceed in that manner as that seems to be the consensus on this thread from I'm guessing more experienced people than I.

Thanks for the replies so far, will keep this thread updated so I don't trip myself up at any point.

[nyxster]

saaby93 said:

nyxster said:

Depends if it is RTI (return to invoice) or finance balance settlement, if its RTI you get the gap between value and full invoice price paid which less the settlement to the finance house should recover your full deposit, if its a straight shortfall policy you only get the difference between settlement and finance liability. On straight HP with RTI you'd basically get your deposit and any payments made over and above the current settlement figure, not sure on lease since they own the car there isn't a settlement figure that effectively is a right to buy under conditional sale so you'd need to check your lease contract for early settlement clauses.

Is return to invoice good enough? Does that really put the OP back in the position he was pre- accident?

Is this the ideal route....
OP lets own insurer know hes been involved in collision but is claiming through TP insurer
OP contacts TP insurer lets them know where car is so they can assess repair costs and decide to write it off
Meanwhile TP arranges loan car for OP
If they write off the car TP contact lease co to arrange payout
As lease co invoice is for wholesale price it will be different payout to market value ( plus admin fees)
Lease co says that as car is only 3 months old he can have another added to the lease agreement and continue as he was
How close is that? Where would the GAP insurer become involved?

The proper chain for a financed / lease vehicle should be:

Contact your insurer and open a claim informing them you are claiming liability from the 3rd party. Your own insurer will process the claim, depending on your cover you either claim through them or your legal cover for excess, out of pocket expenses etc.

If your insurance company notify you of a total loss:

Contact your GAP insurance provider and notify them of a total loss claim.
Notify your finance company/ lease provider and notify them of a total loss claim and give them details of the claim number, insurer etc.

At this point it will depend on your contract - you'll either get a hire car from your insurer which will be billed to the 3rd party in the settlement OR your lease company will provide you an alternative vehicle until they replace your car with the leased model.

Subject to the loss clause in your lease:
They can terminate the agreement, any unused rental payments (including pro-rata refund of advanced payments will be refunded and you can start a new lease). any loss of use or out of pocket expenses will be cliamable from the 3rd party insurer.

They can provide you with a interim vehicle until such time as the contracted vehicle can be replaced. Any loss of use again would be claimable if the vehicle was not of the same standard or you'll be entitiled to a pro rata refund on rentals subject to your contract terms for substitution.

The insurance settlement for the vehicle will go directly to the lease company, either a full invoice new for old if under 12 months or payment based on glasses market value, where the value paid is below the assessed liability under the lease the lease company will reclaim any shortfall under your gap insurance.

TLDR: you should be put in a position you were in had the accident not occurred, your lease is a contracted use for a specified car, in the event the lease company cannot provide that car you have a right to terminate, or they can substitute like for like and payment of any loss of benefit under the contract terms until cancelled.

Any expenses you incur relating to the incident are claimable from the 3rd party insurer, your insurer will be able to tell you if they will handle this, your legal cover or you need to recover it directly.

The insurer will settle the vehicle claim themselves, recover any liability from the 3rd party and pay any benefit to the lease company as the owner.

the GAP company will cover any shortfall liability between the insurance payout and the lease company liability.

Either you'll get a replacement car under your lease, or you will be entitled to a hire car until such time as the vehicle is replaced covered by the 3rd party for the duration of loss of benefit while your lease contract is in force, with a requirement on you and the lease company to mitigate the loss by replacing the vehicle as soon as the loss claim is settled. i.e you get a hire car paid by 3rd party / your insurer until the lease company get their money when they either must provide you a car or stop charging your lease premium.

You shouldn't need to deal with the 3rd party direct unless your insurer/legal cover isn't recovering your excess/expenses or pursuing any PI claim.

addenum: there is no point in dealing with the TP insurer yourself for the car claim - under your lease agreement you are on the hook, therefore so is your own insurer - the proper route is the fastest to get your insurer to settle the claim under your comprehensve policy, payout so the lease company is settled and can either source you a new car or terminate the lease, then the insurer can pursue the liability against the 3rd party without you or the lease company incurring additional expenses. Under your contract you are obligated to insure the car and pay for it in a total loss so you need to fulfil that obligation on your part - the settlement of liability is a matter between your insurer and the 3rd party insurer since your insurer is first liable and can then recover losses from the 3rd party.

The only reason to directly pursue the 3rd party is when you have TPFT or TP, or own the car and don't want to pay the excess before the claim is settled - in all finance cases you will be liable to continue paying your contract until the balance is settled and having declared the vehcle total loss the owner the lease company is entitled to make a claim directly from your own insurer regardless of 3rd party liability.

A second note - under the terms of your insurance if you deal with a 3rd party directly you may invalidate your own FC cover for obvious reasons - the insurers claims handlers don't want you making any admissions that would undermine a claim or make any agreements that would remove their ability to recover their liabilities in a subsequent claim. You should complete the claim with your own insurer and pass all correspondance from the 3rd party through them.

Edited by nyxster on Sunday 17th December 16:38

[MattyB_]

Any pics of the car (without wanting to sound morbid) ? Everyone sounds like they're OK, so either the car is expensive to repair so easily written off, or it holds up well in big accidents and you've walked away OK!

[saaby93]

MechMovement said:

Had to call my insurers to recover the vehicle as it was not in a driveable state and didn't have the TP insurance details to hand.

Will now get in touch with TP insurers and let them know the location of the vehicle and proceed in that manner as that seems to be the consensus on this thread from I'm guessing more experienced people than I.

Thanks for the replies so far, will keep this thread updated so I don't trip myself up at any point.

Not many of these happen and theyre all different
if the car is with them , maybe dont discount your own insurers yet,
They might be able to sort it all out for you
But first try to find out the game plan - is there aim to just settle with the lease co and after than youre on your own?
Where does the GAP insurance step in?
The lease co - will they provide you a replacement car ( would you like one)
In the end most of the funds come from the TP insurers - what will they do for you by dealing direct

[TooMany2cvs]

MattyB_ said:

Any pics of the car (without wanting to sound morbid) ? Everyone sounds like they're OK, so either the car is expensive to repair so easily written off, or it holds up well in big accidents and you've walked away OK!

Parts delay plus substantial salvage value?

[GroundEffect]

I'm guessing the tub was damaged which is what killed it?