RE: Porsche 911 Carrera T: Driven
Discussion
aelord said:
Talk about damning with faint praise.
Always the way - they can't come out and slate it because that will wreck their relationship with Porsche and compromise access to new models to review etc. etc.
You just have to read between the lines - it's an underpowered turkey with a duff box and ratios.
Bingo! Agreed.Always the way - they can't come out and slate it because that will wreck their relationship with Porsche and compromise access to new models to review etc. etc.
You just have to read between the lines - it's an underpowered turkey with a duff box and ratios.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yep. Once it is an auto turbo barge, the idea of a "lightweight" version is pretty silly. Once you go turbo, it is all about performance. Nobody complains that the 991 Turbo weighs the same as a small bus.(This leaves to one side that the weight saving is so small as to be entirely pointless.)
My take on Nic's review: it's a good car in the same way that the standard Carrera is a good car, further improved by (some of) the additional extras fitted to the car as standard e.g. lowered PASM chassis. The weaknesses of the car are inherited from the Carrera e.g. less than enthralling power output exacerbated by long gearing and lack of fizz nearing maximum revs. The manual gearbox is also apparently a weakness - in particular changing down out of 7th.
(Partially off topic but personally, I've had my fill of journalists b
hing about how terrible this or that manual transmission is; tell me, is Porsche's manual worse than Ferrari's or Audi's or Mercedes' on their sport-oriented models? Oh that's right - they don't make them any more. Give it a rest now journalists, we get it. Manual bad, auto good. Let's hope some OEMs continue to defy your superior wisdom in this area.)
(Partially off topic but personally, I've had my fill of journalists b
hing about how terrible this or that manual transmission is; tell me, is Porsche's manual worse than Ferrari's or Audi's or Mercedes' on their sport-oriented models? Oh that's right - they don't make them any more. Give it a rest now journalists, we get it. Manual bad, auto good. Let's hope some OEMs continue to defy your superior wisdom in this area.)I don't get quite the judgement of the manual. I thought they revised it and improved it? I've heard it is a nice 'box to use now.
Then, this review mentions the final drive change and then refers to it as a change to the 'final cog'. I'm not that mechanically minded, but I thought the final drive was separate in the differential?
I do think the T is too expensive, but would be curious to know how much the standard Carrera would be versus the bits the T gets as standard (assume PSE and dampers at -10mm are not cheap).
I also don't understand how removing rear seats, PCM, sound proofing and fitting lighter glass only results in 20kg saving...?
It's such a shame though that they didn't reduce it by a good 70kg or so... surely possible with more parts bin raiding (magnesium roof, 918 seats as standard, PCCBs, GT3 hubs and wheels)
Then, this review mentions the final drive change and then refers to it as a change to the 'final cog'. I'm not that mechanically minded, but I thought the final drive was separate in the differential?
I do think the T is too expensive, but would be curious to know how much the standard Carrera would be versus the bits the T gets as standard (assume PSE and dampers at -10mm are not cheap).
I also don't understand how removing rear seats, PCM, sound proofing and fitting lighter glass only results in 20kg saving...?
It's such a shame though that they didn't reduce it by a good 70kg or so... surely possible with more parts bin raiding (magnesium roof, 918 seats as standard, PCCBs, GT3 hubs and wheels)
Ares said:
ORD said:
Even a bad manual is better than a good auto, I agree.
Really can't understand that comment. Very blinkered (or written from a position of ignorance).anonymous said:
[redacted]
No. And your final sentence proves the point.To say 'I prefer a bad manual to a good auto' is fine.
To say 'I find a bad manual to be better than a good auto' is fine.
To say 'I don't like autos so would take a manual, even if it is s
t' is fine.To even say ' I think even a bad manual is better than a good auto' is fine.
But to say "Even a bad manual is better than a good auto" is wrong, or written from a point of ignorance, or blinkered, or disingenuous.
Facts Vs Opinions etc....
ORD said:
Ares said:
ORD said:
Even a bad manual is better than a good auto, I agree.
Really can't understand that comment. Very blinkered (or written from a position of ignorance).Good Lord, not that old chestnut again. When a person expresses an opinion, they express an opinion. It adds nothing (apart from avoiding upsetting snowflakes) to add "in my opinion". An opinion is an opinion; it does not need a little badge on it pointing this out.
All IMO, of course.
All IMO, of course.
What does this have over a base Carerra?
What are the price and weight implications of that?
Does the result give a dynamic advantage and / or could the same result be achieved by judicious use of the options sheet on a base Carrera?
The deletion of rear seats, thinner glass, removal of sound deadening and different ratios are all things I assume can't be achieved by optioning a base Carrera.
If I took the rear seats out of a base Carerra (or put them back into this one), would that outweigh (pun intended) the differences in this model's USP?
It doesn't sound like the different ratios have made that much of an impact - and surely even Porsche buyers would be embarrassed to pay more for a car that has thinner glass, less sound deadening yet somehow didn't weigh less than the equivalent of losing an inch off your waistline?
If the ratios are even a small improvement - doesn't it come down to a comparison of what you're paying for that minor gain (and then a comparison with a GTS at a similar option level, as a comparison on any other basis is meaningless)?
What are the price and weight implications of that?
Does the result give a dynamic advantage and / or could the same result be achieved by judicious use of the options sheet on a base Carrera?
The deletion of rear seats, thinner glass, removal of sound deadening and different ratios are all things I assume can't be achieved by optioning a base Carrera.
If I took the rear seats out of a base Carerra (or put them back into this one), would that outweigh (pun intended) the differences in this model's USP?
It doesn't sound like the different ratios have made that much of an impact - and surely even Porsche buyers would be embarrassed to pay more for a car that has thinner glass, less sound deadening yet somehow didn't weigh less than the equivalent of losing an inch off your waistline?
If the ratios are even a small improvement - doesn't it come down to a comparison of what you're paying for that minor gain (and then a comparison with a GTS at a similar option level, as a comparison on any other basis is meaningless)?
Edited by CM954 on Monday 8th January 14:33
ORD said:
Good Lord, not that old chestnut again. When a person expresses an opinion, they express an opinion. It adds nothing (apart from avoiding upsetting snowflakes) to add "in my opinion". An opinion is an opinion; it does not need a little badge on it pointing this out.
All IMO, of course.
Actually it does.All IMO, of course.
That is what separates it from being a fact.
I could say:
"The manual M3 is f
king horrific and only an absolutely moron would spec it." I could also say:
"The R8 Manual is the worse performance car in the world."
I would get, rightly, lambasted, because neither are factually, universally correct. It is the addition of 'In my experience', or 'In my opinion' that makes the points valid. Without highlighting a statement is an opinion, it becomes a factual statement.
See Donald Trump for further examples
anonymous said:
[redacted]
See above. Of course it does. "All Cayman drivers are
s and couldn't afford a 911" is very different from "All Cayman drivers I know are s and couldn't afford a 911" And someone with a different opinion is not wrong, they just have a different opinion.
Someone that states a fact that is subjective, or simply not correct, is wrong.
HTH
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