RE: Next BMW M3 spy shots
Discussion
F1GTRUeno said:
Well I hate to break it to you but you don't represent the bulk of the buyers so your anecdotal evidence means absolutely naff all to BMW and their sales/marketing departments.
Do you have any other examples of “cars like this” which are only bought for willy waving purposes ?
Can you explain why your view isn’t at least as anecdotal of that of an actual owner ?
Wills2 said:
F1GTRUeno said:
Wills2 said:
Uncle Ron said:
It's quite ridiculous to say it but 475HP puts it behind the Giulia and C63S of today's crop - in 3 years time that's going to be well out of date. I'd expect a tickled Giulia by then and also a tweak on the C Class which will go to 550PS + comfortably.
Admittedly I've not driven the current M3 but reviews say it struggles with traction. If I were BMW I'd take the weight penalty of the M5's 4WD system and go to 520PS which should have it keeping up with the other 2 without treading on the M5s toes.
Because a car that can already hit 60 in 4 seconds and 100 in 8.6 seconds needs more power? It's more than fast enough.Admittedly I've not driven the current M3 but reviews say it struggles with traction. If I were BMW I'd take the weight penalty of the M5's 4WD system and go to 520PS which should have it keeping up with the other 2 without treading on the M5s toes.
Cars like this are all willy waving. Barely any people actually buy them that give a s
t how it drivers, most want it for the badge and how fast it is to impress their mates/missus/random birds they meetNot a single one of my friends, not a single member of my family, nor my partner, cares a single jot about cars. I moved from an M235i to a Porsche recently - general reaction; "oh did you get a new car? That's nice, what colour is it?"
I buy my cars for me, not for anyone else - no one else cares.
Willy waving is pointless in the face of such disinterest. "Well my new car has 475bhp" would be met with quizzical and confused expressions, a polite smile and a prompt change of subject to the weather.
Not that I have the slightest interest in anything so shallow as willy waving anyway.
Edited by Tim bo on Thursday 21st December 07:36
I struggle to believe that anyone buying an M3 or similar german-box thinks they are impressing anyone at all. It's a family car thats had a powerful engine shoe-horned into it. These cars remind me of when teenagers used to get hold of Lada's and do similar a decade or so back. They couldn't get away from the fact that after all is said and done it was still a Lada to look at - and it's the same with the M3.
Mondschein said:
I struggle to believe that anyone buying an M3 or similar german-box thinks they are impressing anyone at all. It's a family car thats had a powerful engine shoe-horned into it. These cars remind me of when teenagers used to get hold of Lada's and do similar a decade or so back. They couldn't get away from the fact that after all is said and done it was still a Lada to look at - and it's the same with the M3.
It’s a bit more than just a engine but I take your point.My wife has dismissed several recent M, AMGs and a Giulia Quad all on our drive as “it looks like a repmobike”
I know a number of Petrolheads who describe the M3 as a fast tool, but one that most certainly doesn't offer the same levels of driver engagement, as a whole, as they would expect and the forced induction is a distinct issue.
A properly built engine, which is naturally aspirated and exceptional dynamics are hallmarks of the M3 product. They have a long way to go to deliver an appropriate product which isn't N/A, but feels it.
I know BMW can do it, so please keep plugging away.
And to the person who reckons an M3 is a 3 series with a big engine, you're wrong. ///M cars are is at most, 30% conventional 3 series.
A properly built engine, which is naturally aspirated and exceptional dynamics are hallmarks of the M3 product. They have a long way to go to deliver an appropriate product which isn't N/A, but feels it.
I know BMW can do it, so please keep plugging away.
And to the person who reckons an M3 is a 3 series with a big engine, you're wrong. ///M cars are is at most, 30% conventional 3 series.
cerb4.5lee said:
C7 JFW said:
And to the person who reckons an M3 is a 3 series with a big engine, you're wrong. ///M cars are is at most, 30% conventional 3 series.
The M3 isn't just a 3 series with a big engine anymore either...because it's the same size engine as other 3 series in the range! 
Impressive looking it ain't.
RSK21 said:
F1GTRUeno said:
Well I hate to break it to you but you don't represent the bulk of the buyers so your anecdotal evidence means absolutely naff all to BMW and their sales/marketing departments.
Do you have any other examples of “cars like this” which are only bought for willy waving purposes ?
Can you explain why your view isn’t at least as anecdotal of that of an actual owner ?
I don’t know anyone who has bought an M3/4 for the purpose of impressing people.
If anything, they’re the exact opposite of what you’d buy to impress someone else. They're bloody expensive and, to the vast majority of people, they look exactly like any other 3 or 4 series on the road.
There are much more effective ways to spend £70k on a car if your aim is to impress people.
As ever though, PH delivers with the chip-on-shoulder brigade.
Has anyone mentioned that all ‘M’ owners can’t really afford them and that’s why they have to get finance?
Well, I'm happy that BMW aren't trying to win the BHP war. The current model is actually more or less as quick from 0-100 as the more powerful Guilia and C63 despite being down on BHP so its not really that important.
From what I understand the main issue with the current M3/M4 is poor wet weather traction/performance, so BMW really need to address that with their next model. Also the engine is just not charismatic enough....compared with, say the E46, it just sounds awful.
If they sort those issues, then the M3/4 could return to the top of the class once more...
Mondschein said:
cerb4.5lee said:
C7 JFW said:
And to the person who reckons an M3 is a 3 series with a big engine, you're wrong. ///M cars are is at most, 30% conventional 3 series.
The M3 isn't just a 3 series with a big engine anymore either...because it's the same size engine as other 3 series in the range! Impressive looking it ain't.
In saying that I'd still be very happy to have the current M3 though for sure, because I do think it's a good allrounder.
cerb4.5lee said:
Mondschein said:
cerb4.5lee said:
C7 JFW said:
And to the person who reckons an M3 is a 3 series with a big engine, you're wrong. ///M cars are is at most, 30% conventional 3 series.
The M3 isn't just a 3 series with a big engine anymore either...because it's the same size engine as other 3 series in the range! Impressive looking it ain't.
In saying that I'd still be very happy to have the current M3 though for sure, because I do think it's a good allrounder.
If you're talking to someone who's a car nut and is really interested then in actual fact the later M3/4 are not just a 3/4 series with a different engine and slight bodywork detailing.
Selmer Mk6 said:
Aren't all M's, AMG's, RS's Alfa's and Lexus F's based on bog standard rep models and always have been and so what.
I think you and others are continually missing the point of this particular part of the discussion. We are talking about the vehicles ability to impress people as it drives by. Yes, they may well outperform a F1 car but the fact of the matter is, that to look at, they are no more exciting than the bog standard model they were born from. I mean seriously, when was the last time one of these M's, RS's or whatever turned your head? I can't even see how teenage girls would be impressed nowadays to be honest.Yes, I know that from the purists point of view it's not about impressing teenage girls - or anybody else come to that - but that's the particular point we are debating here. Bar a chrome exhaust bit here and an 'M' badge there are the aesthetics of the car in any way more impressive than the rep mobile they sprang from?
Mondschein said:
Selmer Mk6 said:
Aren't all M's, AMG's, RS's Alfa's and Lexus F's based on bog standard rep models and always have been and so what.
I think you and others are continually missing the point of this particular part of the discussion. We are talking about the vehicles ability to impress people as it drives by. Yes, they may well outperform a F1 car but the fact of the matter is, that to look at, they are no more exciting than the bog standard model they were born from. I mean seriously, when was the last time one of these M's, RS's or whatever turned your head? I can't even see how teenage girls would be impressed nowadays to be honest.Yes, I know that from the purists point of view it's not about impressing teenage girls - or anybody else come to that - but that's the particular point we are debating here. Bar a chrome exhaust bit here and an 'M' badge there are the aesthetics of the car in any way more impressive than the rep mobile they sprang from?
s m said:
Isn't that kind of the M2/M2 CSL though ( the 2-series being a booted 1-series ) - that took over from the 1M coupe.
Or would you want a hatchback 1M as well as an M2 coupe?
A proper hatchback M car. Or would you want a hatchback 1M as well as an M2 coupe?
Seems more likely since BMW are killing RWD in the hatchback and most likely the 2-series as well to chase after the Golf/A3 market.
Selmer Mk6 said:
Aren't all M's, AMG's, RS's Alfa's and Lexus F's based on bog standard rep models and always have been and so what.
Pretty much, and as you say so what ? To most that’s part of the appeal, if you don’t need four doors or four seats then buy a “sports car” but don’t get all chippy about people who enjoy near supercar performance in a rather conventional looking and shaped package.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff